NSA snooping keeps us safe

Re: NSA snooping keeps us safe

PostBy: buffalo bob On: Wed Nov 21, 2012 9:02 pm

freetown fred wrote:It's not that difficult to lose a whole bunch of that transparency, in fact, MOST. I did not say all. And I surely empathize with you young family men that would have a lot more of a problem falling off the grid then I would. BUT, to anyone that doesn't think this has been going on for ever & ever, you've been very foolish. Hey, everybody loves the convenience of all the cyber crap available, I've got no sympathy for those that put their entire lives on line, bank on line, etc. Used to be people did business local, not anymore. Spoke to some guy from God knows where or what language he'd come from just to add some minutes to my trac-phone--that was an hr. venture with my side of the conversation amounting to mostly--WHAT???-- Yeah, our politicians for the most part SUK--BUT, we have made our own bed. Rw, you & I both know, this is still the land of the free--ya doubt it??? Go check out some of these other Countries.

boy do i ever agree with you i do nothing on line i keep telling wife its gonna come back and bite u in the a$$ someday...been to a lot of these countrys with red horse usaf construction these a$$holes here that are always bitching should just pack up and live there for a while...they would be begging to come back...hey if u are a good loyal, honest citizen u have nothing to fear from the nsa..i thank god they are there to protect us non nerds...
buffalo bob
 
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Re: NSA snooping keeps us safe

PostBy: freetown fred On: Wed Nov 21, 2012 9:29 pm

Nicely put bb. Gratitude seems to be a dieing art these days. Things get screwed up we do what we can as individuals to help fix it and that means DOING--not just floppin our gums together for entertainment purposes.
freetown fred
 
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Re: NSA snooping keeps us safe

PostBy: jpete On: Wed Nov 21, 2012 10:36 pm

buffalo bob wrote:hey if u are a good loyal, honest citizen u have nothing to fear from the nsa..i thank god they are there to protect us non nerds...


LOL.

Yes. I think that was one of the founding principles of the country!
jpete
 
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Re: NSA snooping keeps us safe

PostBy: Rwalker On: Wed Nov 21, 2012 10:51 pm

Code: Select all
hey if u are a good loyal, honest citizen u have nothing to fear from the nsa


Agreed. To a point. I think the NSA spying on terrorists and countries/splinter cells that mean to do us harm is a GOOD thing. I think ANYONE, government, police forces, or otherwise, using it to spy on what I have in MY house or MY bank account, is scary.

Mark my words: if the current administration has their way, we will be getting visits from the ATF and other government branches for random "checks" on what we have weapon wise. Does having your own personal arsenal mean you arent a good, loyal, honest citizen? Hell no, it means you are probably good, loyal, and more honest then most. They are also going to check our bank accounts and take what they wish.

After the Colorado shooting, theaters started putting up signs saing "No Guns Allowed". Stop and think about that for a second. If someone is hell bent on mass murder, that sign is NOT going to deter them. But what it is going to do is deter law abiding LEGAL citizens from carrying into that theater and becoming a statistic when the *censored* hits the fan.

Taking away a right is taking away a right, no matter how you slice it. I pack my .45 everywhere I go except court houses and secondary schools, like the PA law says. Everywhere else I carry, if the sign says no guns allowed I still carry, because it is not against the law, it is against that stores "rules". I am not going to be a sheep to the slaughter.

I am not debating that this isnt the greatest country on earth and I am not going to debate that having the technology to spy isnt an awesome, needed thing. I will debate, however, that using that technology on friendlies opens up a can of worms that can NEVER be closed without blood shed.
Rwalker
 
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Re: NSA snooping keeps us safe

PostBy: lsayre On: Wed Nov 21, 2012 10:55 pm

Agreed. To a point. I think the NSA spying on terrorists and countries/splinter cells that mean to do us harm is a GOOD thing. I think ANYONE, government, police forces, or otherwise, using it to spy on what I have in MY house or MY bank account, is scary


But how will they know that you are not a terrorist if they don't spy on you? What makes you think you deserve a presumption of innocence? Are you special?

The answer of course is that you are special, and that you are no less than a sovereign citizen.
lsayre
 
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Re: NSA snooping keeps us safe

PostBy: freetown fred On: Wed Nov 21, 2012 11:09 pm

Hell Rw, I know people that could find out what you have in your bank account & they ain't hardly from the Govt. ;) Ya buy things on the open market with receipts involved--now they know what's pretty much in your house--again, not Govt. --Sad but true
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Re: NSA snooping keeps us safe

PostBy: Davian On: Wed Nov 21, 2012 11:26 pm

lsayre wrote:
Agreed. To a point. I think the NSA spying on terrorists and countries/splinter cells that mean to do us harm is a GOOD thing. I think ANYONE, government, police forces, or otherwise, using it to spy on what I have in MY house or MY bank account, is scary


But how will they know that you are not a terrorist if they don't spy on you? What makes you think you deserve a presumption of innocence? Are you special?

The answer of course is that you are special, and that you are no less than a sovereign citizen.


Damn that pesky 4th Amendment!!!

Oh wait, SCOTUS has already gutted it.
Davian
 
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Re: NSA snooping keeps us safe

PostBy: Davian On: Wed Nov 21, 2012 11:29 pm

After the Colorado shooting, theaters started putting up signs saing "No Guns Allowed". Stop and think about that for a second. If someone is hell bent on mass murder, that sign is NOT going to deter them. But what it is going to do is deter law abiding LEGAL citizens from carrying into that theater and becoming a statistic when the *censored* hits the fan.


I completely agree on the right to carry but here goes: You know weapons and you are probably quite competent with your weapon of choice (a .45 from what I've gathered)...would you have drawn in that theater realizing it was dark, a crowd was panicking and there were CS canisters adding to the confusion while at the same time making it even harder to see and get a clean shot?

I dont think it was one of those situations where a conceal carry guy would have done much good...and from what I recall, there were a couple in the theater that didnt even draw their weapons due to the issues I just listed.
Davian
 
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Re: NSA snooping keeps us safe

PostBy: jpete On: Thu Nov 22, 2012 12:19 am

Davian wrote:
After the Colorado shooting, theaters started putting up signs saing "No Guns Allowed". Stop and think about that for a second. If someone is hell bent on mass murder, that sign is NOT going to deter them. But what it is going to do is deter law abiding LEGAL citizens from carrying into that theater and becoming a statistic when the *censored* hits the fan.


I completely agree on the right to carry but here goes: You know weapons and you are probably quite competent with your weapon of choice (a .45 from what I've gathered)...would you have drawn in that theater realizing it was dark, a crowd was panicking and there were CS canisters adding to the confusion while at the same time making it even harder to see and get a clean shot?

I dont think it was one of those situations where a conceal carry guy would have done much good...and from what I recall, there were a couple in the theater that didnt even draw their weapons due to the issues I just listed.


Would you rather have it and not need it or need it and not have it?
jpete
 
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Re: NSA snooping keeps us safe

PostBy: Davian On: Thu Nov 22, 2012 12:23 am

jpete wrote:
Davian wrote:
After the Colorado shooting, theaters started putting up signs saing "No Guns Allowed". Stop and think about that for a second. If someone is hell bent on mass murder, that sign is NOT going to deter them. But what it is going to do is deter law abiding LEGAL citizens from carrying into that theater and becoming a statistic when the *censored* hits the fan.


I completely agree on the right to carry but here goes: You know weapons and you are probably quite competent with your weapon of choice (a .45 from what I've gathered)...would you have drawn in that theater realizing it was dark, a crowd was panicking and there were CS canisters adding to the confusion while at the same time making it even harder to see and get a clean shot?

I dont think it was one of those situations where a conceal carry guy would have done much good...and from what I recall, there were a couple in the theater that didnt even draw their weapons due to the issues I just listed.


Would you rather have it and not need it or need it and not have it?


I completely agree. I fully support conceal carry. I was just commenting on the logistics of that particular incident.
Davian
 
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Re: NSA snooping keeps us safe

PostBy: jpete On: Thu Nov 22, 2012 12:33 am

I'd much rather have a CCW holder in the crowd. He has likely spent much time, effort and money keeping his skills up and will make at least as good a "tactical decision" as any LEO.
jpete
 
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Re: NSA snooping keeps us safe

PostBy: NoSmoke On: Thu Nov 22, 2012 5:59 am

I read an interesting article the other day while waiting for my daughter's tooth to be filled at a dentist. They did not have many magazines to pick from, so I grabbed an Outdoor Magazine and found an interesting article. It was about this 25 year old guy that fell in love with this chick and and basically they tripped around the country, doing environmental protests and whatnot and planning all these environmental activists vandalism stuff. I use the term "vandalism" loosely so that I do not have to use the T word which is what they really were planning. The problem was, the woman was a 18 year old undercover agent.

It was a pretty unbiased story, and it left you wondering towards the end if the FBI was doing the country a favor, or instigating a kid that was lost, had no criminal history, and was only show boating for a woman he was trying to impress. Either way, he did not do anything...just talked about it, and while that was dumb enough, he got 19 years in Federal Prison for doing so. You would have to read the entire article because the environmental wackos do a lot of secret damage to industry, the grid, and society...so in a way I am glad the FBI is monitoring these environmental wackos, but I got to admit I have said some pretty tall tales just to impress a girl in a mini-skirt and heels, I would hate to do time for something I said and not anything I did.

I wish I read the whole article but it did not take long to fill the cavity, and I wish I could find a copy of it online so others could read it. It was a great article about espionage, entrapment, the environmental wacko movement and the prevention of vandalism in this country.
NoSmoke
 
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Re: NSA snooping keeps us safe

PostBy: Rwalker On: Thu Nov 22, 2012 8:39 am

I completely agree on the right to carry but here goes: You know weapons and you are probably quite competent with your weapon of choice (a .45 from what I've gathered)...would you have drawn in that theater realizing it was dark, a crowd was panicking and there were CS canisters adding to the confusion while at the same time making it even harder to see and get a clean shot?

I dont think it was one of those situations where a conceal carry guy would have done much good...and from what I recall, there were a couple in the theater that didnt even draw their weapons due to the issues I just listed.


Yes.

Understand that there is nothing morally superior about being a sheepdog; it is just what you choose to be. Also understand that a sheepdog is a funny critter: He is always sniffing around out on the perimeter, checking the breeze, barking at things that go bump in the night, and yearning for a righteous battle. That is, the young sheepdogs yearn for a righteous battle. The old sheepdogs are a little older and wiser, but they move to the sound of the guns when needed right along with the young ones.

Here is how the sheep and the sheepdog think differently. The sheep pretend the wolf will never come, but the sheepdog lives for that day. After the attacks on September 11, 2001, most of the sheep, that is, most citizens in America said, "Thank God I wasn't on one of those planes." The sheepdogs, the warriors, said, "Dear God, I wish I could have been on one of those planes. Maybe I could have made a difference." When you are truly transformed into a warrior and have truly invested yourself into warriorhood, you want to be there. You want to be able to make a difference.

There is nothing morally superior about the sheepdog, the warrior, but he does have one real advantage. Only one. And that is that he is able to survive and thrive in an environment that destroys 98 percent of the population. There was research conducted a few years ago with individuals convicted of violent crimes. These cons were in prison for serious, predatory crimes of violence: assaults, murders and killing law enforcement officers. The vast majority said that they specifically targeted victims by body language: slumped walk, passive behavior and lack of awareness. They chose their victims like big cats do in Africa, when they select one out of the herd that is least able to protect itself.

Some people may be destined to be sheep and others might be genetically primed to be wolves or sheepdogs. But I believe that most people can choose which one they want to be, and I'm proud to say that more and more Americans are choosing to become sheepdogs.

Seven months after the attack on September 11, 2001, Todd Beamer was honored in his hometown of Cranbury, New Jersey. Todd, as you recall, was the man on Flight 93 over Pennsylvania who called on his cell phone to alert an operator from United Airlines about the hijacking. When he learned of the other three passenger planes that had been used as weapons, Todd dropped his phone and uttered the words, "Let's roll," which authorities believe was a signal to the other passengers to confront the terrorist hijackers. In one hour, a transformation occurred among the passengers - athletes, business people and parents. -- from sheep to sheepdogs and together they fought the wolves, ultimately saving an unknown number of lives on the ground.

There is no safety for honest men except by believing all possible evil of evil men. - Edmund Burke

Here is the point I like to emphasize, especially to the thousands of police officers and soldiers I speak to each year. In nature the sheep, real sheep, are born as sheep. Sheepdogs are born that way, and so are wolves. They didn't have a choice. But you are not a critter. As a human being, you can be whatever you want to be. It is a conscious, moral decision.

If you want to be a sheep, then you can be a sheep and that is okay, but you must understand the price you pay. When the wolf comes, you and your loved ones are going to die if there is not a sheepdog there to protect you. If you want to be a wolf, you can be one, but the sheepdogs are going to hunt you down and you will never have rest, safety, trust or love. But if you want to be a sheepdog and walk the warrior's path, then you must make a conscious and moral decision every day to dedicate, equip and prepare yourself to thrive in that toxic, corrosive moment when the wolf comes knocking at the door.

For example, many officers carry their weapons in church.? They are well concealed in ankle holsters, shoulder holsters or inside-the-belt holsters tucked into the small of their backs.? Anytime you go to some form of religious service, there is a very good chance that a police officer in your congregation is carrying. You will never know if there is such an individual in your place of worship, until the wolf appears to massacre you and your loved ones.

I was training a group of police officers in Texas, and during the break, one officer asked his friend if he carried his weapon in church. The other cop replied, "I will never be caught without my gun in church." I asked why he felt so strongly about this, and he told me about a cop he knew who was at a church massacre in Ft. Worth, Texas in 1999. In that incident, a mentally deranged individual came into the church and opened fire, gunning down fourteen people. He said that officer believed he could have saved every life that day if he had been carrying his gun. His own son was shot, and all he could do was throw himself on the boy's body and wait to die. That cop looked me in the eye and said, "Do you have any idea how hard it would be to live with yourself after that?"

Some individuals would be horrified if they knew this police officer was carrying a weapon in church. They might call him paranoid and would probably scorn him. Yet these same individuals would be enraged and would call for "heads to roll" if they found out that the airbags in their cars were defective, or that the fire extinguisher and fire sprinklers in their kids' school did not work. They can accept the fact that fires and traffic accidents can happen and that there must be safeguards against them.

Their only response to the wolf, though, is denial, and all too often their response to the sheepdog is scorn and disdain. But the sheepdog quietly asks himself, "Do you have and idea how hard it would be to live with yourself if your loved ones attacked and killed, and you had to stand there helplessly because you were unprepared for that day?"

It is denial that turns people into sheep. Sheep are psychologically destroyed by combat because their only defense is denial, which is counterproductive and destructive, resulting in fear, helplessness and horror when the wolf shows up.

Denial kills you twice. It kills you once, at your moment of truth when you are not physically prepared: you didn't bring your gun, you didn't train. Your only defense was wishful thinking. Hope is not a strategy. Denial kills you a second time because even if you do physically survive, you are psychologically shattered by your fear helplessness and horror at your moment of truth.

Gavin de Becker puts it like this in Fear Less, his superb post-9/11 book, which should be required reading for anyone trying to come to terms with our current world situation: "...denial can be seductive, but it has an insidious side effect. For all the peace of mind deniers think they get by saying it isn't so, the fall they take when faced with new violence is all the more unsettling."

Denial is a save-now-pay-later scheme, a contract written entirely in small print, for in the long run, the denying person knows the truth on some level.

And so the warrior must strive to confront denial in all aspects of his life, and prepare himself for the day when evil comes. If you are warrior who is legally authorized to carry a weapon and you step outside without that weapon, then you become a sheep, pretending that the bad man will not come today. No one can be "on" 24/7, for a lifetime. Everyone needs down time. But if you are authorized to carry a weapon, and you walk outside without it, just take a deep breath, and say this to yourself...

"Baa."
Rwalker
 
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Re: NSA snooping keeps us safe

PostBy: samhill On: Thu Nov 22, 2012 9:05 am

Very good RW, I just wish they would finally reconize the License to Carry across all states just like a Drivers License. Living on a state line where I can & can't is a pain, the Ohio Troopers & Park Rangers tell me they are OK with it but to be careful of locals, then what someone says can easily change. :(
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Re: NSA snooping keeps us safe

PostBy: Flyer5 On: Thu Nov 22, 2012 9:27 am

Davian wrote:
After the Colorado shooting, theaters started putting up signs saing "No Guns Allowed". Stop and think about that for a second. If someone is hell bent on mass murder, that sign is NOT going to deter them. But what it is going to do is deter law abiding LEGAL citizens from carrying into that theater and becoming a statistic when the *censored* hits the fan.


I completely agree on the right to carry but here goes: You know weapons and you are probably quite competent with your weapon of choice (a .45 from what I've gathered)...would you have drawn in that theater realizing it was dark, a crowd was panicking and there were CS canisters adding to the confusion while at the same time making it even harder to see and get a clean shot?

I dont think it was one of those situations where a conceal carry guy would have done much good...and from what I recall, there were a couple in the theater that didnt even draw their weapons due to the issues I just listed.



Every situation is different. Having a clear shot or not the fact they didn't even have their weapons drawn says they were not mentally capable to use them, or they were one of the first victims.
Flyer5
 
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