Heed the Warning!

Heed the Warning!

PostBy: Keepaeyeonit On: Fri Nov 23, 2012 10:10 pm

I know It's been talked about before but all of you that have SS liners,or us insert guys that have a pipe going past the smoke shelf check it out.I started my stove on Nov 2 but noticed it was running with a lower then normal draft but not real low just not the same as in the past,after coming home to a house of CO alarms sounding two days in a row because of a lost draft I shut it down and tore it apart to find this,the two pics are the part that is in the clay
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and right above the tee and baro
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the pipe is only two years old and unless It's marked wrong It's 316TI,I put it back together with a piece of new 304 from my old liner( I think it should last until spring) but I will do something with it weather it be install it the way thay say to(Hitzer) or fab a blockoff plate with a removable pipe yo isolate the stove from the flue.Keepaeyeonit
Keepaeyeonit
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Hitzer 983 insert
Coal Size/Type: Mammoth nut
Other Heating: oil furnace,and a crappy heat pump

Re: Heed the Warning!

PostBy: Wood'nCoal On: Fri Nov 23, 2012 10:39 pm

Excellent post, thank you for the photos.
You can never be too safe.
A good reminder for everyone to check the smoke pipes and chimneys and make sure you have working smoke and CO detectors.
Heating season is upon us!
Wood'nCoal
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: 1959 EFM 350
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Harman Magnafire Mark I
Coal Size/Type: Rice and Chestnut
Other Heating: Fisher Fireplace Insert

Re: Heed the Warning!

PostBy: Joeski On: Fri Nov 23, 2012 11:17 pm

I am a rookie. I am still trying to hook up my stoker. :bang: I have driven myself crazy researching again and again and again. I have had 2 installers out who insists on putting in stainless steel chimneys. One outside of my chase one inside my chase. The outside of the chase was quoted at around $7000 so that was an easy no way, no thank you. The inside of the chase installer was quoting a range between $3000 & $4000. That was a how about you install my power vent instead. No response back from that guy since last Sunday Your photo's posted sure has me glad I am going to power vent until I can get a proper masonry chimney put up next year or the year after.

I hope you get it fixed and have no more problems.
Joeski
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Reading
Stove/Furnace Model: Susquehanna


Re: Heed the Warning!

PostBy: Wiz On: Sat Nov 24, 2012 12:03 am

Your photo's posted sure has me glad I am going to power vent until I can get a proper masonry chimney put up next year or the year after.
When you decide to do a masonry chimney let me know. I'll give you the person I used, $750 for a 26 ft masonry chimney.
Wiz
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Keystoker Ka 6
Coal Size/Type: Casey Junk Coal :(

Re: Heed the Warning!

PostBy: Berlin On: Sat Nov 24, 2012 1:39 am

Joeski wrote:I am a rookie. I am still trying to hook up my stoker. :bang: I have driven myself crazy researching again and again and again. I have had 2 installers out who insists on putting in stainless steel chimneys. One outside of my chase one inside my chase. The outside of the chase was quoted at around $7000 so that was an easy no way, no thank you. The inside of the chase installer was quoting a range between $3000 & $4000. That was a how about you install my power vent instead. No response back from that guy since last Sunday Your photo's posted sure has me glad I am going to power vent until I can get a proper masonry chimney put up next year or the year after.

I hope you get it fixed and have no more problems.



why wait until next year? for less than both those quotes, why not hire a mason and get it done with now? The weather hasn't been that bad. It shouldn't take a good mason more than a few days start to finish.

Keepaeyeonit, I've seen worse, but it doesn't take long to start having problems with stainless. That's why I'm a fan of installing a heavy steel plate in place of the damper and connecting a VERY short section of pip to that, with an insert it can be difficult though. 316ti or 316L is about as good as it gets for economical corrosion resistant stainless steel. 304 will be even shorter lived. It probably is not mis-marked, I've seen 316ti fail (other members on here have posted pics of its failure as well) and I've seen 304 and so on - it's rare any survive for long.
Berlin
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Furnace: Will-Burt Combustioneer 77B
Coal Size/Type: Ohio BITUMINOUS pea stoker coal

Re: Heed the Warning!

PostBy: Keepaeyeonit On: Tue Nov 27, 2012 9:35 pm

Well here's a not so good update,relit the stove on Friday night @ 7.00PM draft still seemed low(32*outside), Saturday morning I did a shake down and a 20# reload the fire livened up nice the fire was ok for the day,did another 20# reload at 8:00PM now Sunday was not so good had a low draft all day(40* outside)I removed the cap from the chimney and that made it worse(I think the light wind was blowing from the South over the trees and down my flue)I also noticed the top of the chimney had no warm gas coming out of it and seemed to be real cold,I had two windows cracked by the stove but nothing was working,did a reload at 4:30PM.4:30 Monday morning the stove was fantastic :D (.05 WC,350* stove temp,and 35* outside)did a shake and reload of 18#,came home at 7:00PM to a CO reading of 45 to 70PPM in the house and a dying fire and no draft so I got the fire going again did a good shake and a reload and closed up the stove for the night,around 9:30PM I got a faint whiff of sulfur so I went to check on the stove the CO detectors were reading 0 so I got my handheld meter to check the air and it read 5 to 7 PPM :mad: so I spent the next 2 1/2 hrs trying to put out the fire.I have no idea what the hell the problem is(internal air leaks in the chimney,pipe is no good or I have a air leak in the insulation) but I ordered a new top surround piece so I can try just putting the stove in per Hitzer without all the *censored*(pipe and insulation)and see I the extra heat will help with the draft.If I can't get a draft then I will have to burn oil this winter at $4.00/gal :( but safety is the number one thing and if I don't feel comfortable with it I will not use it,next update soon to some.Keepaeyeonit
Keepaeyeonit
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Hitzer 983 insert
Coal Size/Type: Mammoth nut
Other Heating: oil furnace,and a crappy heat pump

Re: Heed the Warning!

PostBy: Poconoeagle On: Tue Nov 27, 2012 9:52 pm

if the detectors were reading zero...hand held of 5-7 ppm is a non issue.
the hand held routinely reads 35ppm in the building with the forklifts always running... 60 is the point of real concern although I try to not let it go above 35....
Poconoeagle
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Buckwalter & Co. , EFM520
Stove/Furnace Model: No. 28 Glenwood 1880, Alaska

Re: Heed the Warning!

PostBy: Flyer5 On: Tue Nov 27, 2012 10:17 pm

Poconoeagle wrote:if the detectors were reading zero...hand held of 5-7 ppm is a non issue.
the hand held routinely reads 35ppm in the building with the forklifts always running... 60 is the point of real concern although I try to not let it go above 35....



I wish I had a dollar for every time I had to almost beg someone to check their liner when they call with draft issues. Soon as I hear they have a liner exactly what I expect. Glad to hear you found it and everyone was safe.
Flyer5
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Leisure Line WL110
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: Leisure Line Pioneer

Re: Heed the Warning!

PostBy: Keepaeyeonit On: Tue Nov 27, 2012 10:25 pm

I think the max for CO is 50PPM in a 8 hrs in a work place but a house is no more then 8 or 9 but I would like to have 0 in my house,I know I have a problem with something but I don't know what and it's pissing me off,I did good the first two years burning coal but the first three weeks of the third year is testing my patience :mad: :mad: :mad: .Keepaeyeonit
Keepaeyeonit
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Hitzer 983 insert
Coal Size/Type: Mammoth nut
Other Heating: oil furnace,and a crappy heat pump

Re: Heed the Warning!

PostBy: Poconoeagle On: Tue Nov 27, 2012 10:33 pm

Keepaeyeonit wrote:I think the max for CO is 50PPM in a 8 hrs in a work place but a house is no more then 8 or 9 but I would like to have 0 in my house,I know I have a problem with something but I don't know what and it's pissing me off,I did good the first two years burning coal but the first three weeks of the third year is testing my patience :mad: :mad: :mad: .Keepaeyeonit



AHH hmm i thought i read my home co detectors wont sound till they hit 60 and issues really start over 100 ;)
the safety guy at work i thought said OSHA set 35 as a # for the 8 hour shift

im also in the zero is better school of thought though..... have you snooped around with the incense burning looking for it to be drawn in to stove as well as blown out???
Poconoeagle
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Buckwalter & Co. , EFM520
Stove/Furnace Model: No. 28 Glenwood 1880, Alaska

Re: Heed the Warning!

PostBy: Berlin On: Wed Nov 28, 2012 12:11 am

Keepaeyeonit wrote:Well here's a not so good update,relit the stove on Friday night @ 7.00PM draft still seemed low(32*outside), Saturday morning I did a shake down and a 20# reload the fire livened up nice the fire was ok for the day,did another 20# reload at 8:00PM now Sunday was not so good had a low draft all day(40* outside)I removed the cap from the chimney and that made it worse(I think the light wind was blowing from the South over the trees and down my flue)I also noticed the top of the chimney had no warm gas coming out of it and seemed to be real cold,I had two windows cracked by the stove but nothing was working,did a reload at 4:30PM.4:30 Monday morning the stove was fantastic :D (.05 WC,350* stove temp,and 35* outside)did a shake and reload of 18#,came home at 7:00PM to a CO reading of 45 to 70PPM in the house and a dying fire and no draft so I got the fire going again did a good shake and a reload and closed up the stove for the night,around 9:30PM I got a faint whiff of sulfur so I went to check on the stove the CO detectors were reading 0 so I got my handheld meter to check the air and it read 5 to 7 PPM :mad: so I spent the next 2 1/2 hrs trying to put out the fire.I have no idea what the hell the problem is(internal air leaks in the chimney,pipe is no good or I have a air leak in the insulation) but I ordered a new top surround piece so I can try just putting the stove in per Hitzer without all the *censored*(pipe and insulation)and see I the extra heat will help with the draft.If I can't get a draft then I will have to burn oil this winter at $4.00/gal :( but safety is the number one thing and if I don't feel comfortable with it I will not use it,next update soon to some.Keepaeyeonit


Is the termination of your stack higher than the highest point of your house? If not you will have trouble, especially in mild weather. A properly built stack of the correct height won't need a liner even with an oversized flue for the appliance. If it's close, stick another tile liner on top of the current one, mix up a bag of fiber reinforced concrete and pack the concrete on top of the crown around the tile to hold it securely in place - bear in mind this is a TEMPORARY repair and a chase must be built around the tile for safe, long-term use.
Berlin
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Furnace: Will-Burt Combustioneer 77B
Coal Size/Type: Ohio BITUMINOUS pea stoker coal

Re: Heed the Warning!

PostBy: Lightning On: Wed Nov 28, 2012 3:05 am

My Kidie Nighthawk CO alarms won't register anything until its over 30 ppm. Anything under that amount isn't a concern. A 5-7 ppm is normal in a closed environment. But back to your draft issue. I'm betting something isn't sealed somewhere between the stove and chimney and its cannibalizing your draft. I take it you are trying to seal the pipe to the chimney with insulation right? Maybe it isn't sealing very good.
Lightning
 
Hand Fed Coal Furnace: Clayton 1537G
Coal Size/Type: Nut Size / White Ash

Re: Heed the Warning!

PostBy: Wiz On: Wed Nov 28, 2012 6:21 am

incense burning looking for it to be drawn in to stove as well as blown out
Good way to determine issue on outside of stove. ;)
Wiz
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Keystoker Ka 6
Coal Size/Type: Casey Junk Coal :(

Re: Heed the Warning!

PostBy: Keepaeyeonit On: Wed Nov 28, 2012 10:04 am

Poconoeagle wrote:if the detectors were reading zero...hand held of 5-7 ppm is a non issue.
the hand held routinely reads 35ppm in the building with the forklifts always running... 60 is the point of real concern although I try to not let it go above 35....
Yes 35PPM is the right number
Berlin wrote:Is the termination of your stack higher than the highest point of your house? If not you will have trouble, especially in mild weather. A properly built stack of the correct height won't need a liner even with an oversized flue for the appliance. If it's close, stick another tile liner on top of the current one, mix up a bag of fiber reinforced concrete and pack the concrete on top of the crown around the tile to hold it securely in place - bear in mind this is a TEMPORARY repair and a chase must be built around the tile for safe, long-term use.
Yes Berlin the top of the stack is 4' higher then the roof,I also think I may do that to(add 2' more just for the winter)just to see if It's helps.
Wiz wrote:
incense burning looking for it to be drawn in to stove as well as blown out
Good way to determine issue on outside of stove. ;)
Wiz,I keep them on hand all the time for checking air leaks in windows,air flow,and for the stove which I found no leaks.Thanks Keepaeyeonit
Keepaeyeonit
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Hitzer 983 insert
Coal Size/Type: Mammoth nut
Other Heating: oil furnace,and a crappy heat pump

Re: Heed the Warning!

PostBy: jrn8265 On: Wed Nov 28, 2012 11:54 am

I have a 26 ft 316ti SS liner.

I brush and vacume it out at the end of each season, have a good rain cap on it, and allow it to vent properly during the off season so there is no moisture build up and my liner is as good as the first day it was installed 6 years ago and I have been burning coal now through it for 5 years.

So they last if you take care of them!
jrn8265
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Keystoker Koker
Stove/Furnace Model: Koker 160