Manual pipe dampers .. how, why, when

Re: Manual pipe dampers .. how, why, when

PostBy: SMITTY On: Thu Jul 15, 2010 9:47 pm

Yeah I think Harman has alot to lose in a lawsuit .... That's the reasoning behind that one. And seeing that people sue their own friends when they slip on ice nowadays .........
SMITTY
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Patriot Coal - custom built by Jim Dorsey
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Harman Mark III (not currently in use)
Coal Size/Type: Rice / Blaschak anthracite
Other Heating: Oil fired Burnham boiler

Re: Manual pipe dampers .. how, why, when

PostBy: nortcan On: Sat Oct 09, 2010 1:18 pm

I burn anthracite in my Vigilant 11 for 3 years and still learn a lot. What surprise me is the fact that the Vig 11 works with an internal damper and Vermont Castings write and say no MPD or baro should be used. With an internal damper you must direct the gazes so you by-pass the flue exit and have a much longer path to release the heat to the room. Yesterday and today I'm testing a wood burning kit I made to burn wood with a cleaner combustion. Beeing able to burn wood cleanly during Fall and Spring days when we don't need heat every days is a plus.The temp. on the top (griddle) of the stove= 750 F, temp. at 17 inches high on the flue pipe= 200F. 500 F on the griddle, 150 F on the flue pipe. I had same results with anthracite burning. With an internal damper the heat MUST be released through the stove. I think old stoves builders knew the advantages of it, Glenwood stoves are a good example of the efficiency of an internal damper.
nortcan
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Stuart,Peterson/ Grander
Stove/Furnace Model: Sunnyside/ Golden Bride

Re: Manual pipe dampers .. how, why, when

PostBy: VigIIPeaBurner On: Sat Oct 09, 2010 4:09 pm

nortcan, it's pretty amazing how much heat the Vigilant II stove transfers from the combustion gasses isn't it? I've measued 140*F stovepipe temperature at 6 feet (1.9 m) with a measued 700*F stovetop. This is without a barometric damper. The internal damper is a well engineered part of this stove that mimics a manual pipe damper's funcion. When using its internal damper once the stove is up to temperature, the thermostatic air control works in conjunction to perform similarly to a barometric damper for best heat transfer. Best of both MPD and Baro systems with out the conditioned room air drain of a baro.

I've burned wood in mine too, both in fireplace mode and closed up. If burning bit (or wood!) in airtight mode, be sure to put the restrictor plate over the inside of the air feed so the fire temperature can be controlled. Also, the secondary air inlet can be used to help completly burn the smoke inside of the side chambers as there's no over fire air inlet in the model 2310. Anthracite needs so much more air than wood or bit to properly burn so I normally have it removed. Without the restrictor plate, the stove can easily exceed Vermont Casting's max temperature of 700*F with wood/bit.

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I burn anthracite during the changing seasons by reducing the size of the firebox. Quite simply by using steel plates atop the grates, several old firebrick and burning pea size coal. I cut the size by 25 or 50% by blocking either or both sides of the firebox. This reduces the maximum output by a similar percentage, just right for changing season burns. One just needs to watch the draft doesn't drop too much with such a small fire. :)

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VigIIPeaBurner
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Furnace: Keystoker Koker
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Vermont Casting Vigilant II 2310
Other Heating: #2 Oil Furnace

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Re: Manual pipe dampers .. how, why, when

PostBy: nortcan On: Sat Oct 09, 2010 10:23 pm

Hi Vig 11 peaBurner, I don't use the restriction plate cause the air channel bring air from that port to the left side of the stove (I did remove every things at the left side) and one other part of air is sent to the right top side for secondary gasses burning jus before the right top exit. Not perfect but better than before. The long path for the combustion air replace the restriction plate and warmup the combustion air. When the stove is around 500F. there is no smoke at the chimney cap. My last wood stove was a V.C. Defiant Everburn(non Cat.) rated at o.8 gr.hr E.P.A. and I saw smoke very often at the top of the chimney ??? So I imagine that my kit is not so bad...
When I reduced the size of the combustion chamber on the Vig 11, it was for spring and fall time but I realized that it was performing so well that it stayed on all last winter. The house was warmer with less anthracite and the stove was easier to manage. The thing that made a big difference is the front plate (1/2 X 5 inches H., steel). With that front plate, the air cannot bypass the coal bed through the horizontal front grill as it used to do before I removed it. That way it's like a closed box seen from the top. I attached a thin plate at the bottom of it, a kind of door to have acces for slicing the grates. Much cleaner when opening the front doors.
The wood kit is just for experiment and helps for wood burning. Anthracite burning is not comparable to wood burning. I wish the same pleasure to all anthracite peoples.
Salutations from Qc
nortcan
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Stuart,Peterson/ Grander
Stove/Furnace Model: Sunnyside/ Golden Bride

Re: Manual pipe dampers .. how, why, when

PostBy: Cyber36 On: Mon Oct 17, 2011 2:05 pm

VigIIPeaBurner wrote:nortcan, it's pretty amazing how much heat the Vigilant II stove transfers from the combustion gasses isn't it? I've measued 140*F stovepipe temperature at 6 feet (1.9 m) with a measued 700*F stovetop. This is without a barometric damper. The internal damper is a well engineered part of this stove that mimics a manual pipe damper's funcion. When using its internal damper once the stove is up to temperature, the thermostatic air control works in conjunction to perform similarly to a barometric damper for best heat transfer. Best of both MPD and Baro systems with out the conditioned room air drain of a baro.

I've burned wood in mine too, both in fireplace mode and closed up. If burning bit (or wood!) in airtight mode, be sure to put the restrictor plate over the inside of the air feed so the fire temperature can be controlled. Also, the secondary air inlet can be used to help completly burn the smoke inside of the side chambers as there's no over fire air inlet in the model 2310. Anthracite needs so much more air than wood or bit to properly burn so I normally have it removed. Without the restrictor plate, the stove can easily exceed Vermont Casting's max temperature of 700*F with wood/bit.

View: New PagePopup


I burn anthracite during the changing seasons by reducing the size of the firebox. Quite simply by using steel plates atop the grates, several old firebrick and burning pea size coal. I cut the size by 25 or 50% by blocking either or both sides of the firebox. This reduces the maximum output by a similar percentage, just right for changing season burns. One just needs to watch the draft doesn't drop too much with such a small fire. :)

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Was wondering how you shake the ashes clean when you use this method??
Cyber36
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Marathon/Logwood

Re: Manual pipe dampers .. how, why, when

PostBy: Vinmaker On: Wed Nov 30, 2011 9:25 pm

Well I have been burning coal in my Russo (not sure the model #) for about 20 years. My particular model has a manual damper built right in at the flue exit on the back of the stove. This is a solid plate of steel. Not full of holes like a typical MPD from the stove dealer. So when I close it down, it traps all the heat in the stove and does not let the heat into the pipe. I can then turn the air down and get a nice long burn. I plan on installing a MPD on my next stove as well. I tried a BPD but did not care for it. Was not able to dial it in I felt. I am used to using a MPD and feel quite comfortable. As was said. Each stove and chimney combo is different so one needs to learn and become accustomed to their own particular setup.

That being said. I still use my Digital readout CO2 meters to read the ppm. :)

Vin.
Vinmaker
 
Stove/Furnace Make: HARMAN
Stove/Furnace Model: SF-250

Re: Manual pipe dampers .. how, why, when

PostBy: Bootstrap On: Wed Jan 25, 2012 10:32 pm

I just put a baro damper in my stove pipe. So far so good. My draft is really really strong. Triple insulated stainless steel chimney pipe runs up through the house from the basement. about a 25' stack. I also have a manual pipe damper in after the baro. So it basically goes; stove, baro, MPD. So far I think the fire is easier to control....over time I will tell.
Bootstrap
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Hitzer
Stove/Furnace Model: 30-95

Re: Manual pipe dampers .. how, why, when

PostBy: 63roundbadge On: Wed Jan 25, 2012 11:26 pm

[quote="Bootstrap". So it basically goes; stove, baro, MPD. So far I think the fire is easier to control....over time I will tell.[/quote]

I could be wrong, but I re-configured mine to stove/MPD/baro and it works worlds better than when I had it like yours. MPD keeps draft constant through stove, baro and chimney/wind have a ball flapping and carrying on above it when it's windy. I have total control over what's going on, I leave the door air adjust wide open and throttle the output via either the MPD or quality of my shaking.

My Alaska Kodiak has a round grate and a square bed. If I need less output I don't poke the corners. Maybe not the proper way to do it, but it works great for me. Ash is totally spent coal or ashes and I fill one hod daily, empty ash pan every 3 days. Shake every 12 hours. When I shake it, I open the MPD. I leave it open until the ladies peak (around 20 minutes) then I set the MPD to where I need it, usually totally closed (which trickles the draft anyway due to construction). It couldn't get much easier or predictable. Even a caveman could run my stove...
63roundbadge
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Alaska
Stove/Furnace Model: Kodiak

Re: Manual pipe dampers .. how, why, when

PostBy: coaledsweat On: Wed Jan 25, 2012 11:43 pm

Bootstrap wrote:I also have a manual pipe damper in after the baro. So it basically goes; stove, baro, MPD. So far I think the fire is easier to control....over time I will tell.

That doesn't sound right to me. The MPD should be at the appliance's breach. The baro should be after it, preferably near the chimney.
coaledsweat
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Axeman Anderson 260M
Coal Size/Type: Pea

Re: Manual pipe dampers .. how, why, when

PostBy: buck24 On: Wed Jan 25, 2012 11:56 pm

63roundbadge ..... You are right. The MPD should be before the barometric draft. Stove/ MPD/ Barometric Draft / Chimney. The Installation and Operation Instructions fo Warm Morning Coal Heaters also show it that way. I have always seen coal stove set up this way.
buck24
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: New Buck Corp. / MODEL 24 COAL
Coal Size/Type: Pea, Nut / Anthracite

Re: Manual pipe dampers .. how, why, when

PostBy: Bootstrap On: Thu Jan 26, 2012 9:57 am

Can someone point me in the direction of these install instructions? I will re-configure my setup. Right now I am burning pea coal in it and I can't seem to get a good burn cycle.
Bootstrap
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Hitzer
Stove/Furnace Model: 30-95

Re: Manual pipe dampers .. how, why, when

PostBy: Bootstrap On: Thu Jan 26, 2012 10:18 am

I found the install manual. The MPD needs to be between the baro and stove. So I have it backwards. I guess I will let the fire go out today and swap it. Luckily its warm out today anyways.
Bootstrap
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Hitzer
Stove/Furnace Model: 30-95

Re: Manual pipe dampers .. how, why, when

PostBy: Hot Rocks On: Thu Jan 26, 2012 10:24 am

Bootstrap,I would put stove out until you change that. should be stove,mpd,baro. The way you have it,CO could fill your house.
Hot Rocks
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: Hyfire II
Coal Size/Type: Rice
Other Heating: Water Coil

Re: Manual pipe dampers .. how, why, when

PostBy: Bootstrap On: Thu Jan 26, 2012 10:28 am

Its been running like that for a while and I'm at work now. My chimney pulls hard, I'm not worried about it at all.
Bootstrap
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Hitzer
Stove/Furnace Model: 30-95

Re: Manual pipe dampers .. how, why, when

PostBy: Chuck_Steak On: Thu Jan 26, 2012 9:50 pm

Bootstrap wrote:.. My chimney pulls hard, I'm not worried about it at all.


I wouldn't be either.

Dan
Chuck_Steak
 
Coal Size/Type: mostly nut, sometimes stove, Santa brand
Stove/Furnace Make: Harman
Stove/Furnace Model: Mark III

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