Manual pipe dampers .. how, why, when

Re: Manual pipe dampers .. how, why, when

PostBy: freetown fred On: Sun Nov 24, 2013 11:16 am

Ya know, I have looked into the pro's & con's reported on here about Baro's & after reading this one I've got to question the dependability, & reliability of pursuing this topic anymore for my particular stove set up??????????????? I know I damn sure don't want to install an Erector Set style gizmo on the old HITZER:( BUT, if it works, it's good:)
KingCoal wrote:Finally, i have my crazy "industrial leave vac." chimney under control.

the current series of controls is

stove

Dwyer pick up line

MPD

Baro.

MPD

wall thimble

the lower MPD keeps heat in the stove, the upper MPD brings the draft down to where the Baro. can work as intended to prevent over draft during higher winds but not produce a constant draw of room air out the chimney 24/7.

last night i had 6-9 mph winds and could not induce the stove to go positive with both MPD's closed while the Baro. and intake where held wide open. the mano. reading was -.005.

i'm satisfied for now.
freetown fred
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: HITZER 50-93
Coal Size/Type: BLASCHAK Nut/Stove mix

Re: Manual pipe dampers .. how, why, when

PostBy: KingCoal On: Thu Nov 28, 2013 7:19 pm

don't bother Fred, it didn't last, just a flash in the pan to help me toward the correct set up of my application.

just 2 MPD's 14" apart in 18" of 6" stove pipe.

i've got a new thread brewin', stay tuned.
KingCoal
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Riteway # 37, Comforter Stove Works
Baseburners & Antiques: 2014 DTS C17 Base Burner
Coal Size/Type: Nut Anth.
Other Heating: none

Re: Manual pipe dampers .. how, why, when

PostBy: freetown fred On: Thu Nov 28, 2013 10:35 pm

NICE KC :)
freetown fred
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: HITZER 50-93
Coal Size/Type: BLASCHAK Nut/Stove mix

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Re: Manual pipe dampers .. how, why, when

PostBy: rberq On: Fri Nov 29, 2013 11:55 am

KingCoal wrote:last night i had 6-9 mph winds and could not induce the stove to go positive with both MPD's closed

I did. Fire was really blazing up with new coal and lots of air. I closed the MPD and got lots of smelly smoke in the room, complaints from the wife department, 10 on the CO detector. Lesson learned. :o
rberq
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: DS Machine 1300
Coal Size/Type: Nut -- Kimmel/Blaschak/Reading
Other Heating: Oil hot water radiators, propane

Re: Manual pipe dampers .. how, why, when

PostBy: Rob R. On: Fri Nov 29, 2013 1:41 pm

Any chance the smoke was from burned paint? I have seen that happen when you suddenly choke down a hot stove.
Rob R.
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: EFM DF520
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Hitzer 50-93
Other Heating: Dad's 1953 EFM Highboy

Re: Manual pipe dampers .. how, why, when

PostBy: Dallas On: Fri Nov 29, 2013 2:24 pm

rberq wrote:I did. Fire was really blazing up with new coal and lots of air. I closed the MPD and got lots of smelly smoke in the room, complaints from the wife department, 10 on the CO detector. Lesson learned. :o


It seems to me, that you should have closed, of cut down, the "under fire draft", while leaving the MPD slightly cracked. ??
Dallas
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Modified Russo C-35
Other Heating: Oil Hot Air
Stove/Furnace Make: Russo
Stove/Furnace Model: Modified C-35

Re: Manual pipe dampers .. how, why, when

PostBy: freetown fred On: Fri Nov 29, 2013 6:18 pm

That don't make any sense rb--last 2 posts need to be seriously considered????????????????????
freetown fred
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: HITZER 50-93
Coal Size/Type: BLASCHAK Nut/Stove mix

Re: Manual pipe dampers .. how, why, when

PostBy: rberq On: Fri Nov 29, 2013 8:07 pm

freetown fred wrote:That don't make any sense rb--last 2 posts need to be seriously considered????????????????????

Big fire, MPD suddenly closed, where's the smoke to go except out through leaky stovepipe joints or the air inlets?
I don't think it was burning paint, because the stove had not yet heated up a lot, just had lots of fresh coal and lots of gas flaming up.
Dallas is right, I could have slowed the fire by closing off the intake air, but I didn't want to slow the fire, I wanted HEAT.
Or I could have just waited 15 minutes until the fire calmed down, THEN I could have closed the MPD without a problem.
Could have done most anything except what I did do. :)
rberq
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: DS Machine 1300
Coal Size/Type: Nut -- Kimmel/Blaschak/Reading
Other Heating: Oil hot water radiators, propane

Re: Manual pipe dampers .. how, why, when

PostBy: freetown fred On: Fri Nov 29, 2013 9:29 pm

Gottcha--don't feel like the lone stranger ;)
freetown fred
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: HITZER 50-93
Coal Size/Type: BLASCHAK Nut/Stove mix

Re: Manual pipe dampers .. how, why, when

PostBy: Dallas On: Fri Nov 29, 2013 9:55 pm

Big fire, MPD suddenly closed, where's the smoke to go except out through leaky stovepipe joints or the air inlets?

Are you sure that you have the correct size MPD? If you are using 6" pipe, there should be a "6 inch" embossed on the MPD. A 6" MPD, in a 6" pipe, is pretty loose (1/4" gap all the way around the perimeter, as well as multiple holes in the plate).

My stove burns fine with the MPD closed, regardless of the under fire draft .. wide open or closed.
Dallas
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Modified Russo C-35
Other Heating: Oil Hot Air
Stove/Furnace Make: Russo
Stove/Furnace Model: Modified C-35

Re: Manual pipe dampers .. how, why, when

PostBy: freetown fred On: Sat Nov 30, 2013 8:00 am

Dallas, I've heard people mention SOLID ones on here--never saw such a critter myself, nor could I imagine anyone buying one--BUT--who knows anymore--might be one of those BETTER IDEA silly concepts. I also can keep mine closed all the time with no negative happenings--I'm thinkin more chimney draw then MPD????????????????????? AGAIN, who knows:(
freetown fred
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: HITZER 50-93
Coal Size/Type: BLASCHAK Nut/Stove mix

manual stove pipe dampers- Harman I, III warning

PostBy: coalcracker On: Sat Dec 07, 2013 1:27 pm

http://hearthnhome.com/downloads/instal ... II_III.pdf

click on link above, it's the owners manual for a Harman Mark I or Mark III coal stove. When you click on it, wait until the PDF file opens, then scroll down to page 7, section 3.1

here's what it says:

UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCES SHOULD A MANUAL FLUE DAMPER BE INSTALLED IN THE SMOKE PIPE BETWEEN THE STOVE AND THE CHIMNEY.


then read the bottom of page 6, here's what it says:

MANUAL DAMPERS OR “HEAT SAVERS” MUST
NEVER BE INSTALLED IN THE FLUE PIPE. IMPROPER
OPERATION COULD RESULT IN DEATH.


that's the final say in stove pipe dampers of any kind, including baro dampers, on any antique or modern stove, using a recirculating type exhaust design, to extract more heat from the stove. Stoves of this type are already internally baffled and dampened. Putting another damper in the stove pipe on such stoves, risks death from CO backing up into the room and home.

having said that, relying on a damper as such, to get "efficiency" from a stove made in the 1920's, is risking your life and your family's life. We've learned a little since then. These recirculating exhaust stoves should not have a damper in the stovepipe.

Only use a stovepipe damper on a wood stove, or very cautiously on a coal stove, providing the coal stove is not internally baffled already. There are differences between manual damper design for coal and wood stoves. A coal stove damper has holes drilled in the middle and will still pass 20% of total volume when fully closed. A wood stove damper will have no holes in the middle.

Ask yourself why those holes are in the middle of the damper, for the coal stove. Because the CO gases from coal, are deadly.

That's playing with fire, literally. I sleep very well knowing there's no manual damper on the flue pipe of my Harman I. Flue pipe damper SPRINGS do wear out from heat, and then the damper becomes loose and doesn't hold it's adjustment. This $6 hardware store mechanism can kill you, if it blocks the stove pipe on a coal stove, that's internally baffled. Never install a solid damper on a coal stove. The risk is not not worth any amount of efficiency or money you may save.

These tall free standing "oak" style vintage stoves of the recirculating design, fall into this category. Proceed with caution.
Last edited by coalcracker on Sat Dec 07, 2013 2:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.
coalcracker
 
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: Standard sealed hot water boiler, hand fed
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Harman Mark I Magnafire
Baseburners & Antiques: Lehigh Oak 18, Washington potbelly, Sears Roebuck parlor cabinet, PIttston 6 lid cook stove, vintage combo gas/coal cook stove 4 lid
Coal Size/Type: nut
Stove/Furnace Make: Harman
Stove/Furnace Model: Mark I Magnafire

Re: manual stove pipe dampers- Harman I, III warning

PostBy: Bruce M On: Sat Dec 07, 2013 1:55 pm

Thanks for the fianal say and warning.... Mine works well.
Bruce M
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: DS Machine 1627 basement stove

Re: Manual pipe dampers .. how, why, when

PostBy: WNY On: Sat Dec 07, 2013 2:00 pm

I think most people that have them and use them know the risks and have working CO detectors nearby.
WNY
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: Keystoker 90K, Leisure Line Hyfire I
Coal Size/Type: Rice
Stove/Furnace Make: Keystoker, LL & CoalTrol
Stove/Furnace Model: 90K, Hyfire I, VF3000 Soon

Re: Manual pipe dampers .. how, why, when

PostBy: freetown fred On: Sat Dec 07, 2013 2:13 pm

I'm HOPING that anyone burning a coal devise of any type understands the risks & has CO detectors. Be it MPD, Baro, furnace, boiler, hand fired or whatever--my MPD serves me well & safely with my stove. I'm not a big Baro fan, but I'm not going to conclude they are more DEADLY then anything else because I find an article that supports my personal beliefs. :(
freetown fred
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: HITZER 50-93
Coal Size/Type: BLASCHAK Nut/Stove mix

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