Manual pipe dampers .. how, why, when

I knew it would be more fun, when you got back. ... Cognitive Dissonance

I refuse to comment.......

What makes you think I went anywhere?? You just haven't posted anything unsafe lately, so I haven't had to 'fix' anything dangerous to the forum readership on this topic.

Greg L

Anyone have any idea what a baro damper go for? I would think they would be sold with other stove pipes like here http://www.ventingpipe.com/display.cfm?sWord=damper&I1.x=0&I1.y=0 but all I see are manual ones and none of them come up under the coal pipe selection. Do you need a higher temp baro for coal like you do with the other stove parts?

Field controls Type RC can be had off of ebay for $20-30. I'm not sure on regular retail pricing around $40-50 I think.


http://www.fieldcontrols.com/pdfs/02702600.PDF

http://cgi.ebay.ca/FIELD-CONTROLS-6-RC- ... m153.l1262

Greg L

Someone has pointed out a scenario where a barometric damper can cause a very real safety issue so I'll post it here. He was from Maine and apparently a lot of people heat with wood there and there is also a lot of houses that get burned up because of chimney fires. He said a barometric damper should not be used with a wood stove because it provides the perfect source for oxygen in case of a chimney fire, is that common knowledge? I don't know because I never burned wood. Makes sense but how that relates to coal is you need to make sure the creosote has been thoroughly cleaned from the flue before using a barometric damper on your coal stove.

What has happened according to him is a lot of people will switch to coal and get the false sense of security because they don't have to clean the chimney out anymore and neglect to do it one last time. In the event it catches fire and you have a barometric damper you're going to have a serious issue on your hands.

Just a heads up for those of you previously burning wood with intentions of starting to use coal.

Makes a lot of sense to me.I've never seen one on a wood stove.
DON

He said a barometric damper should not be used with a wood stove because it provides the perfect source for oxygen in case of a chimney fire, is that common knowledge?

Agreed. Also, you need a lot of draft to keep an air tight wood stove burning well, negating the need for a baro. In the event of a chimney fire you need to be able to shut the air off completely, the baro damper will continue to feed oxygen into the chimney, not good.

Baros also accumulate creosote on the back of the swinging plate, the weight of the creosote makes it useless after a short time because it loses it's balance setting (and it is a nightmare to get off). If you plan on burning any wood, wrap the baros plate with some tinfoil on it's backside or pull the baro housing and cap the hole. When you switch back to coal just peel the tinfoil or replace the baro housing, you will still have a baro that works properly.

Here is a drawing of a damper safety you can set up if you are worried about Chimney Fires. There are two fusible links, one high, one low. The chain and eye bolts should be of good quality steel to withstand the temperatures as well as corrosion weather inside or outside the stack. The weight and landing pad must be adjusted so the damper will fully close once either of the fusible link melts and the weight drops on the landing pad. Some folks don't have all that much room to install this on the inside, so you can install it on the outside, ensuring the chain with the fusible links are in the chimney along with the weight and landing pad by the bottom clean out door. This is just one you can try.

You can also rig a temperature sensor with probes both high and low, attached to a motor that is attached to the manual damper so that once the temperature reaches the point where it is unusually high, it will shut the damper. This has a benefit of less "small holes" in your chimney.

I used a Chubby Coal Stove with a OEM Manual Damper installed in the back of the stove. I belive the manual keeps the heat in the stove better. I also used a Barometric Damper in the pipe leading to the chimmey to control gusty wind drafts. I used this setup in my living room at first then in the basement for 14 years with no problems. I burnt mostly coal with only wood fires to start the coal and they ran hot so no creosote build up.
A good friend my whole life who lives in Me. up new the Ca. border told me to run the stove hot 10 min.s a day to burn off creosote. He always burnt wood. He didn't have a back up heater either in his self built home unfinish for years.
In using a manual damper I noticed if you have a hot fire going and shut it down fast it will back up until it cools down then it breathes fine with it shut down all the way which is the way I ran the Chubby all the time. I only used the air intake in front to control the heat output I wanted. The Chubby was airtight so I never got fumes in the room. I used it with a poorly installed chimmey as well. It was hampered by roofs and trees. Terrible blow backs on warmer SW wind days. this is were a closed damper might help.

JMOP of course but with this new home and MK III I put in both types of dampers as well.

What if I can't instal a pipe damper at all?

For the past 2 seasons I have been burning a small Russo coal stove, quite successfully.

My living room has a very nice fire place with a 15 inch deep stone shelf about a foot above the floor. The fire place is solid stone, wall to wall and floor to ceiling and has 10 inch by 12 inch masonary flue tiles to and above the roof line about 3 feet.

I totally enclosed the fire place opening with eighth inch plate steel and sealed it all around the stone surfaces. My Russo coal stove just fits on the stone hearth and the pipe outlet goes through the plate steel. I have a stainless steel flexible pipe that goes from the rear of the stove to the top of the chimney right through the existing fire place damper and the flue tiles and it goes through another steel plate that totally encloses the top of the flue tile.

I was not able to install a pipe damper and could not get to it if I did have one.

My coal stove is directly attached from the rear of the stove to the roof and the existing chimney, fire box and flu tiles serve only as an outter sheath for the coal stove and flex pipe. Essentially there is nothing but dead air inside the masonary chimney and between the flex pipe but I am sure this affords the flex pipe some insulation and protection from the elements.

As far as fire quality goes, it took some time to learn the tricks of burning coal. My fire is easy to keep and start and I now have the regulation of temps down to a science. I have a magnetic temp gauge on the front verticle surface of the fire box and maintain a temp of between 300-400 degrees.
I also have seperate smoke and CO2 detectors in the living room for saftey's sake but I am not completely sure if deadly gases that could be produced by a coal fire will be detected if my flex pipe ever burned through.

For me to instal a pipe damper of any kind would require moving the stove another foot out into the living room and building an extended raised harth for it to sit on that would match the height of the existing harth. This would both look hidious and rob valuable floor space and destroy the asthetics of the entire room.

I'm not quite sure I fully understand the function of the baro dampers or the real necessity for a damper at all. What benefit would I gain by having either type of damper and what danger am I creating by not having one?

I open the loading door slowly to avoid puff-backs and as I have said, my stove burns great the way I have it installed.

Thanks to all who can provide ideas or cautions.

Gary

You're not creating any danger by not having either and quite the opposite because the gases can flow freely up the pipe in the case of the hand damper. The baro damper can possibly present a danger in that if the chimney is not drawing really well or even blocked gases can more easily escape into the houses. Neither is a safety hazard if used properly under the right circumstances.

What they provide is better efficiency and more control. They both perform the similar task of preventing heat from escaping the stove/furnace but by different methods. The hand damper literally blocks it in by narrowing the width of the flue significantly. The baro damper instead works on pressure, if you get a big gust of air for example it will open up and allow air to be pulled from your basement instead of the heat from the stove.

Each has their usefulness and you need to apply whatever suits your needs. If you don't have room for either then don't worry about it.

Thanks Richard. I do believe I might have a little better efficiency by adding a damper but so far I am very impressed with the performace and heat value from the coal and my particular set up.

I burned 100s of cords of wood over the past 35 years and have to put this in perspective. I went yesterday for my coal, 100 miles round trip over to Honesdale PA and got just under 2.5 tons for a little over $500 @ 219/. Spent most of 2 full days getting it binned and ready for the season. I would need at least 5 full cords of wood if I still had the Big Moe Allnighter stove and that would require many, many more hours, dollars, equipment, space and lots of very hard work.

I did the math a while back and honestly wish I could go with a bigger coal stove but will have to be happy with the one I have and the nice heat it produces at a fraction of the total cost. The fewer of my dollars that end up Arab hands the better I like it!

Gary

Hi Gary, Richard's answer is on the mark.. in your application a damper of any sort is very difficult to incorportate.. Hitzer made a manual damper integral with their 503 insert this year.. This is a new feature since last season..

With an airtight insert, you are just going to have to monitor the weather a bit more than a person with a barometric damper..that's all.. just be aware that the chimney draft can and will change with the weather and the heat output of the stove.. and you need to compensate,, the non-exsistant barometric damper can't do it for you..

You have a good, well built stove.. I'm sure you will enjoy using it.

Greg L