Bad Smell in House Harmon Stoker

Re: Bad Smell in House Harmon Stoker

PostBy: llama99 On: Sat Dec 01, 2012 9:52 pm

cArNaGe wrote:Is it a new stove?

If its a new stove then the smell is just the paint/oils burning off. That should be over in a few hours.

Is it a sulfur smell?

That indicates the stove could possibly be venting in house.

How is the draft on the power vent?

It is an older stove I used it for a number of years, but not last year. I had to replace the vent pipe this year. Yes it is a sulfur smell. I don't have a meter to check the flow or pressure.I read a lot about it, but I never really figured out how to check the draft. Guess I got bad advice from guys who don't check draft on their stoves. It seems like I was getting some leakage at the joints in the pipe - I would not have expected that. My flue was relined when I got the stove - it is only 5 1/2 inches, so I guess it could be easy to push too much air and force it out of the stove? My barometric dampener never opened.
llama99
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: Harman Magnum Stoker
Coal Size/Type: rice
Stove/Furnace Make: Harman
Stove/Furnace Model: Magnum Stoker

Re: Bad Smell in House Harmon Stoker

PostBy: blrman07 On: Sat Dec 01, 2012 9:57 pm

this looks like a duplicate post. Didn't you ask the same questions under New Guy Harmon Stoker problems?
blrman07
 
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: Bucket a Day
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Vigilant Casting 2310
Baseburners & Antiques: rebuilding a 1906 March Brownback Double Heater, reblacking a UMCO 1920's Pot Belly
Coal Size/Type: Pea/Nut/Wood in the VC and anything that will fit in the Bucket a Day. It's not fussy.

Re: Bad Smell in House Harmon Stoker

PostBy: Wood'nCoal On: Sat Dec 01, 2012 10:00 pm

Please don't start multiple threads on the same topic, it gets confusing. I combined both discussions.

Thanks. :D
Wood'nCoal
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: 1959 EFM 350
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Harman Magnafire Mark I
Coal Size/Type: Rice and Chestnut
Other Heating: Fisher Fireplace Insert

Visit Lehigh Anthracite

Re: Bad Smell in House Harmon Stoker

PostBy: titleist1 On: Sat Dec 01, 2012 10:38 pm

you should shut down until you get the seams of the flue pipe sealed. maybe this was already suggested in the other thread.
titleist1
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: Harman Mag Stoker (old style) one in basement, one in workshop
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Harman Mark III on standby for long power outages
Coal Size/Type: Rice/Anthracite; Nut/Anthracite

Re: Bad Smell in House Harmon Stoker

PostBy: Wood'nCoal On: Sat Dec 01, 2012 10:52 pm

All the comments from both threads are here.

If this stove is being used with a power vent and there is a CO reading near the stove as well as an odor I would suspect a problem with the power vent.

Also, I quickly read the manual for this stove and there is no mention of powerventing it, only that it should be connected to a chimney.
Wood'nCoal
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: 1959 EFM 350
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Harman Magnafire Mark I
Coal Size/Type: Rice and Chestnut
Other Heating: Fisher Fireplace Insert

Re: Bad Smell in House Harmon Stoker

PostBy: KLook On: Sat Dec 01, 2012 11:03 pm

I am not sure I understand all that is going on. A power vent with a flue? Chimney relined? Barometric? Do you use those with a power vent? Something does not sound right.

Kevin
KLook
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Harman VF 3000
Coal Size/Type: rice, bagged, Blaschak
Stove/Furnace Make: Harman (Back In Maine)
Stove/Furnace Model: VF 3000

Re: Bad Smell in House Harmon Stoker

PostBy: Wood'nCoal On: Sat Dec 01, 2012 11:13 pm

I'm kind of confused myself. :?
Wood'nCoal
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: 1959 EFM 350
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Harman Magnafire Mark I
Coal Size/Type: Rice and Chestnut
Other Heating: Fisher Fireplace Insert

Re: Bad Smell in House Harmon Stoker

PostBy: llama99 On: Sun Dec 02, 2012 1:10 am

Here are some photos of the stove. Hopefully a better explanation follows.

PC010364.JPG
(135.02 KiB) Viewed 12 times
View: New PagePopup • Select:BBCode
[nepathumb]38340[/nepathumb]
PC010365.JPG
(169.93 KiB) Viewed 12 times
View: New PagePopup • Select:BBCode
[nepathumb]38341[/nepathumb]
PC010363.JPG
(130.44 KiB) Viewed 21 times
View: New PagePopup • Select:BBCode
[nepathumb]38339[/nepathumb]
PC010366.JPG
(129.93 KiB) Viewed 14 times
View: New PagePopup • Select:BBCode
[nepathumb]38342[/nepathumb]


Sorry for the confusion. I guess I am confused too. No power vent to the outside. It has a blower that pushes heat to one register (guess I called it a vent - hot air duct?)in the floor. That is where the smell appeared to be coming from. Now - there was already a register in the floor that is above the stove. The opening is 12"x14" . I could a duct that large, so the duct is smaller than the register in the floor. I can look down through the register and see part of the top of the stove. So I guess, anything leaking from the stove or vent to the wall pipe could rise up and into the first floor through this space.


The chimney was a 24" square - house built in 1850'S - that collapsed. I had it "fixed"when I moved into the house several years ago. They put in a 5 1/2"SS liner and packed around it with a cement /Vermiculite mix to "insulate it".

I used the stove for several years. The pipe from the stove to the chimney liner went bad - rust...corrosion. I couldn't replace it last year so the stove sat for a year. I had removed the bad pipe last year, so the stove did not sit connected to the chimney all last year.

This week, I replaced the pipe from the stove to the SS liner. I did not seal the new vent pipe - the guy at the stove store told me I didn't need it sealed. I don't know what to use.

I relied on a friend (until now) who never used a manometer to adjust the draft. I guess I got lucky before. I don't have one and not sure I quite know how to use it to make adjustments - I have been reading, but I guess I might need one in my hands to really "get it".

I apologize again for my mixing of terms and scatter brained posts. I shut down the stove until I get it straight and got two new CO monitors. I had two, but they were old and were not working correctly.

The new CO Monitors were reading 33 in the room with the hot air duct. I got readings at the vent pipe joints in the 50's. So I need to seal them - what do you suggest I use?

combustion blower motor - that affects the draft - correct? There is a restrictor plate on it - is that how I adjust the draft?

Ok - too much at once. Thank you for your patience and I apologize for the confusion.
llama99
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: Harman Magnum Stoker
Coal Size/Type: rice
Stove/Furnace Make: Harman
Stove/Furnace Model: Magnum Stoker

Re: Bad Smell in House Harmon Stoker

PostBy: Coalfire On: Sun Dec 02, 2012 7:49 am

llama99 wrote: They put in a 5 1/2"SS liner and packed around it with a cement /Vermiculite mix to "insulate it".

I used the stove for several years. The pipe from the stove to the chimney liner went bad - rust...corrosion. I couldn't replace it last year so the stove sat for a year. I had removed the bad pipe last year, so the stove did not sit connected to the chimney all last year.




This week, I replaced the pipe from the stove to the SS liner. I did not seal the new vent pipe - the guy at the stove store told me I didn't need it sealed. I don't know what to use.




First of all your liner is probably collapsing in your chimney, that is why you are getting odors. Do not use the stove until that liner is inspected

The stove pipe doesn't need to be sealed it should be under a vaccum, seems like you have an obstruction in the chimney, like a collapsed or severly damaged liner
Coalfire
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: DS Machine 96K btu Circulator
Coal Size/Type: Nut

Re: Bad Smell in House Harmon Stoker

PostBy: Cap On: Sun Dec 02, 2012 8:09 am

I agree with Coalfire's assement, check that liner to be on the safe side. I don't like the way your stove pipe is connected. The ends should be fully inserted. You are trying to make 45's out of 90's. May have to run vertical out of the top and 90 straight into the flue liner.

Also, if you burn really hot, you may smell something. Happens to my stove, sort of a smell from too much heat due to overfiring the unit. But under normal use, you will not smell anything.

That cover plate to start should be approx 50%, this motor supplies air to the grates. Others will tell you how to adjust. Be careful out there. I am only about 15 miles east of you near the Lehigh River. If you keep having trouble, maybe I can come out and help you out.
Cap
 
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: Harman SF 250, domestic hot water loop, heat accumulator

Re: Bad Smell in House Harmon Stoker

PostBy: Dennis On: Sun Dec 02, 2012 8:57 am

Shut the stove down
pull the stove pipe off
look up the chimney liner for blockage
seal the stove pipe
get a manometer sometime soon(set draft at desired level and save coal and a life if you have no draft)

Now with all pics and added info. your chimney seems to be blocked and the stove is pressurized with the cumbustion blower and CO is leaking everwhere
Dennis
 
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: AHS/WOC55-multi-fuel/wood,oil,coal
Coal Size/Type: Anthracite/stove size

Re: Bad Smell in House Harmon Stoker

PostBy: titleist1 On: Sun Dec 02, 2012 9:32 am

was the pipe that goes through your wall replaced this year? if not did you vacuum out the fly ash, that without a doubt, collects in this horizontal section of flue pipe this year?

also agreed you need to check chimney liner for blackage from deterioration. I'm thinking that if they used cement vermiculite mix around the liner that would have "set up" and created a liner itself. then if the ss liner did deteriorate you need to scrub it out of there with a metal chimney cleaning brush so that it is clear.

as mentioned, make sure your flue pipe sections are seated securely, i prefer to seal the joints with high temp furnace silicon, comes in a caulk size tube, squeeze it on, smooth it with your finger, live with blackened finger tip for a week. although i don't know why i prefer this since i have a big hole with a baro flapper on it?! :lol:
titleist1
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: Harman Mag Stoker (old style) one in basement, one in workshop
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Harman Mark III on standby for long power outages
Coal Size/Type: Rice/Anthracite; Nut/Anthracite

Re: Bad Smell in House Harmon Stoker

PostBy: coalkirk On: Sun Dec 02, 2012 9:35 am

And while you are shut down I would change your vent pipe system. Get rid of the galvanized section and use all black smoke pipe. The galvanized gives off a nasty gas. also why not come off of the stove with a straight up vertical section to a T, then a straight horizontal section into the chimney. Maybe its just me but I don't like all those adjustable 90's.
coalkirk
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Harman VF3000
Coal Size/Type: antrhcite/rice coal

Re: Bad Smell in House Harmon Stoker

PostBy: Dennis On: Sun Dec 02, 2012 9:54 am

coalkirk wrote:Maybe its just me but I don't like all those adjustable 90's.

I done this with my pipe,eliminating 2 foot of stove pipe,but sealed them up.When you put a drop light in the adjustable pipe you can see light thru the joints.
That is a good idea of one tee and baro in the end for easy clean out without a shut down.
Dennis
 
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: AHS/WOC55-multi-fuel/wood,oil,coal
Coal Size/Type: Anthracite/stove size

Re: Bad Smell in House Harmon Stoker

PostBy: KLook On: Sun Dec 02, 2012 10:31 am

Take Cap up on his offer, I bet he has a manometer. ;) And while he is there straighten out the pipe. I think you most likely smelled the paint burning off or the galv burning off. But certainly look up that chimney, use a mirror if you have to stuck in through the thimble.

Kevin
KLook
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Harman VF 3000
Coal Size/Type: rice, bagged, Blaschak
Stove/Furnace Make: Harman (Back In Maine)
Stove/Furnace Model: VF 3000

Visit Lehigh Anthracite