Not new to coal but need HELP!!

Re: Not new to coal but need HELP!!

PostBy: Larry E. On: Mon Dec 10, 2007 7:04 pm

Dallas wrote:The manual pipe damper should be closer to the stove, if you have both. IMHO, the manual pipe damper won't interfere with the intent of the baro damper (flapper), which seems to be to keep the total draft over/through the fire "governed", by keeping the stove pipe draft regulated.


OK thanks Dallas. After I get better aquainted with this stove I may revisit this issue.

Lory
Larry E.
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Harman
Stove/Furnace Model: TLC2000

Re: Not new to coal but need HELP!!

PostBy: Dallas On: Mon Dec 10, 2007 7:05 pm

Why don't you crack some and see if it works better?
Dallas
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Modified Russo C-35
Other Heating: Oil Hot Air
Stove/Furnace Make: Russo
Stove/Furnace Model: Modified C-35

Re: Not new to coal but need HELP!!

PostBy: rberq On: Mon Dec 10, 2007 7:44 pm

Just like Wood'nCoal, I have a Harman Mark I, and when I see "cold" spots in the coal, I will shake it down then poke around with a fireplace poker and kind of churn things up like tossing a salad. That way I find the clinkers and can pull them out with fireplace tongs. I have taken out light-weight clinkers anywhere from golf ball to softball size. It can be iffy whether I lose the fire after doing this -- so far charcoal has saved the fires. But the stove burns much better and more uniformly afterwards.
rberq
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: DS Machine 1300
Coal Size/Type: Nut -- Kimmel/Blaschak/Reading
Other Heating: Oil hot water radiators, propane

Visit Hitzer Stoves

Re: Not new to coal but need HELP!!

PostBy: Larry E. On: Mon Dec 10, 2007 10:40 pm

Dallas wrote:Why don't you crack some and see if it works better?


Oh yeah, a coal breaker I am not......!!!

L
Last edited by Larry E. on Tue Dec 11, 2007 1:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Larry E.
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Harman
Stove/Furnace Model: TLC2000

Re: Not new to coal but need HELP!!

PostBy: LsFarm On: Mon Dec 10, 2007 10:42 pm

Hi Larry E, your Harman's grates can open far enough to let pieces of coal, clinkers or hard ash get trapped between the grates or the grate and the side of the firebox. You have to learn to shake the grates with short 'choppy' motions of the shaker handle. Moving the handle too far will result in either jammed grates or dumping the whole pile of coal into the ashpan.

Wood'nCoal wrote: The Harman manual specifically forbids the use of a MPD, and recommends a baro damper for their stoves.



Your Harman is designed with gasketed doors, and good air vent controls, and it is designed to use a Barometric damper. Don't mess with a manual damper, they are not safe. A barometric damper will control and even out the draft that is pulling air through your air vent and through the coal bed. A baro is designed to open when the wind blows, or the temperature drops and increases the draft. Without a baro, or with a manual damper, your air vent setting needs to be adjusted everytime the weather changes, sometimes overnight or for sure day by day. With a baro, you will soon learn that 1/4 turn gives a certain burn time and a certain stove temp, 1/2 turn gives x amount of heat etc... Without a baro or with a manual damper, what works when the outside temp is 20* and windy, will not work for 35" and light winds.

Your coal may have a lot of ash content, or some shale in it. If you continue to have burning issues you may want to try a bag or two of a different brand of coal to eliminate this possibility.

Changing to pea size coal also is something to try, by burning a few bags of that size coal.

It' won't take long to figure out your TLC, have a few days of patience.

Hope this helps, Greg L
LsFarm
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Axeman Anderson 260
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: Self-built 'Big Bertha' SS Boiler
Baseburners & Antiques: Keystone 11, Art Garland

Re: Not new to coal but need HELP!!

PostBy: Larry E. On: Mon Dec 10, 2007 10:48 pm

LsFarm wrote:Hi Larry E, your Harman's grates can open far enough to let pieces of coal, clinkers or hard ash get trapped between the grates or the grate and the side of the firebox. You have to learn to shake the grates with short 'choppy' motions of the shaker handle. Moving the handle too far will result in either jammed grates or dumping the whole pile of coal into the ashpan.

Your Harman is designed with gasketed doors, and good air vent controls, and it is designed to use a Barometric damper. Don't mess with a manual damper, they are not safe. A barometric damper will control and even out the draft that is pulling air through your air vent and through the coal bed. A baro is designed to open when the wind blows, or the temperature drops and increases the draft. Without a baro, or with a manual damper, your air vent setting needs to be adjusted everytime the weather changes, sometimes overnight or for sure day by day. With a baro, you will soon learn that 1/4 turn gives a certain burn time and a certain stove temp, 1/2 turn gives x amount of heat etc... Without a baro or with a manual damper, what works when the outside temp is 20* and windy, will not work for 35" and light winds.

Your coal may have a lot of ash content, or some shale in it. If you continue to have burning issues you may want to try a bag or two of a different brand of coal to eliminate this possibility.

Changing to pea size coal also is something to try, by burning a few bags of that size coal.

It' won't take long to figure out your TLC, have a few days of patience.

Hope this helps, Greg L


Hi Greg L - OK so no one said anything about adjusting this baro in any way.....so I should turn the little knob to keep make it heavier or lighter for certain weather conditions thereby fine tuning the flapping door and therefore the draft that way??? I wonder if they set that adjustment to some degree when it was installed....guess I'll have to call the guys and ask!! Thanks for the big tip and please correct my interpretation if it's wrong.

L
Larry E.
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Harman
Stove/Furnace Model: TLC2000

Re: Not new to coal but need HELP!!

PostBy: LsFarm On: Mon Dec 10, 2007 11:31 pm

Most Barometric dampers have a slot with numbers coresponding to the postion of the sliding weight. Others have a long bolt that the weight is spun in or out on. The unit with the slot and numbers can be set roughly at .05 or .06 wc for your stove, or what is listed in the owners manual [if it is listed].

Once the baro is set, it wil control the draft in the stove for almost all weather conditions, with the possible exception of really extreem conditions. Once set, I'd leave it alone, and learn what amount of air through the TLC's air vents will give you the burn time and heat you want.

Hope this helps. Greg L

.
LsFarm
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Axeman Anderson 260
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: Self-built 'Big Bertha' SS Boiler
Baseburners & Antiques: Keystone 11, Art Garland

Re: Not new to coal but need HELP!!

PostBy: rberq On: Tue Dec 11, 2007 8:31 am

My baro has the long bolt Greg describes, which adjusts the counterweight attached to the top section of the damper. Trouble is, there's nothing to stop the damper from flipping to the horizontal position, at which point the counterweight would be holding the damper full open and reducing draft through the fire way too low. A good updraft from a gust of wind could potentially flip it, and I think that would be very dangerous. I checked out the damper on my oil-fired boiler, and it has a limiter to prevent the problem. So I've got to get one like that for the coal stove.
rberq
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: DS Machine 1300
Coal Size/Type: Nut -- Kimmel/Blaschak/Reading
Other Heating: Oil hot water radiators, propane

Re: Not new to coal but need HELP!!

PostBy: coaledsweat On: Tue Dec 11, 2007 9:12 am

rberq wrote:Trouble is, there's nothing to stop the damper from flipping to the horizontal position, at which point the counterweight would be holding the damper full open and reducing draft through the fire way too low.


This is a potential problem with a lot of baros, and should be checked out on every install. The RC from Field Controls is the reccomended damper for coal. It has a flapper stop to prevent this, but it still needs to be checked and adjusted (just a little bending of the tab) to see that it functions properly. Recheck it every time you have your stovepipe off, it can be out of setting after monkying around with it.
coaledsweat
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Axeman Anderson 260M
Coal Size/Type: Pea

Re: Not new to coal but need HELP!!

PostBy: Larry E. On: Tue Dec 11, 2007 1:26 pm

Hi All - Thanks so much for all of your help!! Last evening I opened the air intake for about 20 minutes, shook down the ashes only moving the handle about 1/2" total range up and down, let it cook for another 10, shook it the rest of the way and NOTHING got stuck in the grates!! I filled up the pot full to the top of the fire bricks, set it a bit more open than I had been setting it (2.5 ticks rather than 1.5 ticks) and got up this morning, coal was looking like it had burned better/hotter (obviously because I gave it more air), did the same more air/limited handle range/more air sequence that I did last night and I'll be darned, same result, zero chunks caught in the grates. I did have to shake it about 75 times because of the limited range of motion vs. amount of ash vs. my strength but each time I finally saw the nice orange glow above the ash pan and that's what I was looking for. I also noticed that it took a bit more shaking to get that glow even across the bottom of the fire but I eventually got it.....but it's a warning I think to look for clinkers, etc. on the slow to glow side of the fire tonight. I'll go as long as I can like this and see if I can fish clinkers out per the suggestions here.....if they materialize in numbers I can't deal with.

Thanks so much to everyone who answered my question/post. If anyone has more suggestions they are all greatly appreciated. I will keep an eye on my baro for it flipping open....THAT would be bad.....but last evening I turned the little weight so that it was closer to the flapper making it ever so slightly tougher for it to open......an interesting fine tuning mechanism that I completely overlooked/didn't understand until you all explained it!!! I'll stop wishing I hadn't sold my Majestic now that I know how to operate this Harman much better....LOL.

Lory
ParkerFord, PA
Heating our 1758 stone house (over 30 old single pane windows) with our new Harman stove using chestnut coal and liking it better each day......
Larry E.
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Harman
Stove/Furnace Model: TLC2000

Re: Not new to coal but need HELP!!

PostBy: Larry E. On: Tue Dec 11, 2007 1:29 pm

coaledsweat wrote:
rberq wrote:Trouble is, there's nothing to stop the damper from flipping to the horizontal position, at which point the counterweight would be holding the damper full open and reducing draft through the fire way too low.


This is a potential problem with a lot of baros, and should be checked out on every install. The RC from Field Controls is the reccomended damper for coal. It has a flapper stop to prevent this, but it still needs to be checked and adjusted (just a little bending of the tab) to see that it functions properly. Recheck it every time you have your stovepipe off, it can be out of setting after monkying around with it.


Hey CoaledSweat - Sorry to be dense, but would the flapper stopper be located on the inside of the pipe if it's there at all? I don't know what type I have but I want to check this tonight. Thanks in advance.

Lory
Larry E.
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Harman
Stove/Furnace Model: TLC2000

Re: Not new to coal but need HELP!!

PostBy: WNY On: Tue Dec 11, 2007 1:56 pm

Here an RC damper from Field controls, the Stop Tab is located on the Right Side that goes thru the sheet metal and will prevent it from opening too far.

damper_rc copy.jpg
(61.18 KiB) Viewed 23 times
View: New PagePopup • Select:BBCode
[nepathumb]2050[/nepathumb]



Some may have this setup, which is a much cheaper version and could possibly over center and jam, since there is no stops and I don't believe is recommended for coal.

B-34T.gif
B-34T.gif (5.87 KiB) Viewed 477 times
Select:BBcode:
[nepafile=2051]B-34T.gif[/nepafile]
WNY
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: Keystoker 90K, Leisure Line Hyfire I
Coal Size/Type: Rice
Stove/Furnace Make: Keystoker, LL & CoalTrol
Stove/Furnace Model: 90K, Hyfire I, VF3000 Soon

Re: Not new to coal but need HELP!!

PostBy: LsFarm On: Tue Dec 11, 2007 3:01 pm

Hi Larry, glad to hear that the stove worked well for you last night. For the 'short shakeing', if you do have to let the fire die out to remove clinkers, then take a look at the grates as you move the shaker handle. Mark on the side of the stove with chalk the limit to how far you can shake without opening a gap large enough to get jammed with a piece of coal, rock or clinker.

Once you get used to the travel limits, then you can wipe off the chalk.

Greg L

.
LsFarm
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Axeman Anderson 260
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: Self-built 'Big Bertha' SS Boiler
Baseburners & Antiques: Keystone 11, Art Garland

Re: Not new to coal but need HELP!!

PostBy: Larry E. On: Tue Dec 11, 2007 6:25 pm

LsFarm wrote:Hi Larry, glad to hear that the stove worked well for you last night. For the 'short shakeing', if you do have to let the fire die out to remove clinkers, then take a look at the grates as you move the shaker handle. Mark on the side of the stove with chalk the limit to how far you can shake without opening a gap large enough to get jammed with a piece of coal, rock or clinker.

Once you get used to the travel limits, then you can wipe off the chalk.

Greg L

.


Hi Greg L - Thanks for the idea.....it's a good one because the handle is NOT parallel to the floor when the grates are level.....it points down about 15 degrees which is taking a bit of getting used to. I'll try to attach a picture of my former stove.....I miss it's great looks :-) I could crank the handle on this one about 45 degrees and never a chunk would get caught....of course we were burning super/dangerously hot about 75% of the burn time :-)

Lory
Attachments
Stove1a.jpg
(153.91 KiB) Viewed 9 times
View: New PagePopup • Select:BBCode
[nepathumb]2054[/nepathumb]
Larry E.
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Harman
Stove/Furnace Model: TLC2000

Re: Not new to coal but need HELP!!

PostBy: Larry E. On: Tue Dec 11, 2007 6:28 pm

WNY wrote:Here an RC damper from Field controls, the Stop Tab is located on the Right Side that goes thru the sheet metal and will prevent it from opening too far.

damper_rc copy.jpg



Some may have this setup, which is a much cheaper version and could possibly over center and jam, since there is no stops and I don't believe is recommended for coal.

B-34T.gif


OK so the stove dealer that claimed to know what the Harman manufacturers recommended installed the one in the picture that you state is not recommended for coal.....Hmmmmm. Maybe I could tack weld a little wire stop on the OUTSIDE of the top of the flapper that would catch it before it went over center....anyone ever tried anything like that?

Lory
Larry E.
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Harman
Stove/Furnace Model: TLC2000

Visit Hitzer Stoves