TLC2000 Explosion Blew Apart Stove Pipe, Door Latch Bent Up

Re: TLC2000 Explosion Blew Apart Stove Pipe, Door Latch Bent Up

PostBy: lsayre On: Sat Dec 08, 2012 8:10 am

Is this stove back up and running? I like happy endings.
lsayre
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: AHS S130 Coal Gun
Coal Size/Type: Stockton Anthracite Pea
Other Heating: Resistance Boiler (13 KW)

Re: TLC2000 Explosion Blew Apart Stove Pipe, Door Latch Bent Up

PostBy: tony17112acst On: Mon Dec 10, 2012 8:19 pm

Hmmm ...I was never notified that this thread was added to.

lsayre: Yes. I removed as much coal as possible and let it burn out. I then cleaned everything out, bought 2 new elbows, installed them, and started a new fire the next day.

I still have trouble generating blue flames sometimes and am to scared to close the large glass door in the front when this happens. Then the place smells like sulfur! I am afraid to load it up too ...Im putting smaller amounts on which is a bit of a pain.

-Tony
tony17112acst
 

Re: TLC2000 Explosion Blew Apart Stove Pipe, Door Latch Bent Up

PostBy: Lightning On: Mon Dec 10, 2012 10:24 pm

tony17112acst wrote:I still have trouble generating blue flames sometimes and am to scared to close the large glass door in the front when this happens. Then the place smells like sulfur! I am afraid to load it up too ...Im putting smaller amounts on which is a bit of a pain.


I just did a quick review of this thread. I didn't see anything about draft. Do you have a manometer installed? You shouldn't have exhaust leaking into the room (sulfur smell) with even a low draft, unless you have that door wide open.. After a re load, try having the large glass door in the front only open about 1/4 inch or less. Just enough to keep it drawing in air to keep volatile gases diluted. And you really need to check that draft, it could be part of the puff back issue.. Especially since your having trouble getting the blue flames.
Lightning
 
Hand Fed Coal Furnace: Clayton 1537G
Coal Size/Type: Nut/Stove Size Mix

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Re: TLC2000 Explosion Blew Apart Stove Pipe, Door Latch Bent Up

PostBy: tony17112acst On: Tue Dec 11, 2012 9:50 am

I only leave the door open about an inch. Also, I have a manual damper which I leave at about 45 degrees full time (since I don't know fully how to use it). It's the kind with holes thru it.
tony17112acst
 

Re: TLC2000 Explosion Blew Apart Stove Pipe, Door Latch Bent Up

PostBy: titleist1 On: Tue Dec 11, 2012 9:56 am

get a manometer connected so you know your draft numbers otherwise you are guessing

are you leaving an area of red coals exposed when reloading?
are you reloading a "low" fire or are you opening the ash door prior to reloading to get the fire back to life?


if low draft is an issue, i would open up the manual damper all the way when reloading, but you wont know if that is necessary until you get the manometer connected.
titleist1
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: Harman Mag Stoker (old style) one in basement, one in workshop
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Harman Mark III on standby for long power outages
Coal Size/Type: Rice/Anthracite; Nut/Anthracite

Re: TLC2000 Explosion Blew Apart Stove Pipe, Door Latch Bent Up

PostBy: SteveZee On: Tue Dec 11, 2012 10:38 am

tony17112acst wrote:I only leave the door open about an inch. Also, I have a manual damper which I leave at about 45 degrees full time (since I don't know fully how to use it). It's the kind with holes thru it.


Yes the manual pipe damper should be wide open any time you touch the stove as in shaking and filling, or just adding coal. Get into this habit. Before I do anything on my stove I automatically reach for the MPD and open it. This serves to help rev up the fire before shaking ash, and after filling helps the volatile gasses draft out easier. I leave mine open till the stove has reached the temp I want (15 minutes or so) or close to it, then close it and set the primaries for the temp I want to maintain.
SteveZee
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Glenwood Modern Oak 116 & Glenwood 208 C Range

Re: TLC2000 Explosion Blew Apart Stove Pipe, Door Latch Bent Up

PostBy: Rob R. On: Tue Dec 11, 2012 11:51 am

I haven't read the entire thread, but have you tried filling all but one corner of the firebox and just closing the loading door? Leave the manual pipe damper open during this time, and the exposed burning coal should prevent any buildup of gasses. When the new coal is burning well, fill the last corner with a scoop of coal, then close the stove & damper for the day.
Rob R.
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: EFM DF520
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Hitzer 50-93
Other Heating: Dad's 1953 EFM Highboy

Re: TLC2000 Explosion Blew Apart Stove Pipe, Door Latch Bent Up

PostBy: tony17112acst On: Tue Dec 11, 2012 10:51 pm

Answers:
Yes, I started to add coal and letting one red spot exposed, but still have the problem.
Yes, after reading all these wonderful replies, I started to open the manual damper fully for everything.
Yes, I am livening up the fire considerably before adding coal.
Yes, I've read the hundreds of posts in puffback threads, but I find contradictory info in them. For example, some say to let the ash door open, then later someone says to not do that (btw, I find that the more the air is rushing through, the harder it is to get the blue flames).

I am wondering if I have the wrong expectation: I can get blue flames for about 4-5 minutes, then they slowly go out after setting the air intake on the lower settings. After 5 minutes, is it pretty safe?
tony17112acst
 

Re: TLC2000 Explosion Blew Apart Stove Pipe, Door Latch Bent Up

PostBy: freetown fred On: Tue Dec 11, 2012 11:18 pm

tony, stoves are like a good woman, ya gotta find out what they like & stick to it. Each & every set up is different. YES, there's SOP's but ya just gotta figure out your individual combination. ;) Just remember---don't shoot your eye out! :)
freetown fred
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: HITZER 50-93
Coal Size/Type: BLASCHAK Nut/Stove mix

Re: TLC2000 Explosion Blew Apart Stove Pipe, Door Latch Bent Up

PostBy: freetown fred On: Tue Dec 11, 2012 11:22 pm

:oops2: :mad2: friggin double post
freetown fred
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: HITZER 50-93
Coal Size/Type: BLASCHAK Nut/Stove mix

Re: TLC2000 Explosion Blew Apart Stove Pipe, Door Latch Bent Up

PostBy: franco b On: Tue Dec 11, 2012 11:53 pm

tony17112acst wrote:I find that the more the air is rushing through, the harder it is to get the blue flames).

Yes, now you are realizing that it is not just a question of air but how the air is applied.

Liven up the fire but don't overdue it. A raging fire with a large load of coal that is suddenly closed down will produce maximum gas and not burn it. You want just enough to start the gasses burning. Take your time and study the reaction as you close down the air some more and you will learn the peculiarities of your stove and installation. Try a small load and then larger loads to see the reaction. Rules can only be generalities and the ideal is peculiar to your installation. It's a delicate balance of over and under fire air for perfect burning of the gasses.

Hopper and thermostat equipped stoves are far less prone to puff backs than batch loading stoves because at the end of a burn the thermostat has opened the air to preserve the heat output. When the stove is shaken down the extra air rapidly ignites the pre warmed coal. The thermostat sense the extra heat of the burning gasses and coal and gradually closes down the air.

You can emulate this in your stove by adding a shovel of coal and opening the air before shaking. When that coal is burning shake it down and add more coal and close down the air to a medium setting. After that is burning the gasses you can add more and close down to the long burn setting. Again, observe and learn how your particular stove behaves.
franco b
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: V ermont Castings 2310, Franco Belge 262
Baseburners & Antiques: Glenwood Modern Oak 114
Coal Size/Type: nut and pea

Re: TLC2000 Explosion Blew Apart Stove Pipe, Door Latch Bent Up

PostBy: SteveZee On: Wed Dec 12, 2012 12:07 pm

That's a pretty good post Richard and right on the money for someone to use in getting familiar with their hand fed stove.
SteveZee
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Glenwood Modern Oak 116 & Glenwood 208 C Range

Re: TLC2000 Explosion Blew Apart Stove Pipe, Door Latch Bent Up

PostBy: tony17112acst On: Thu Dec 13, 2012 10:35 am

franco b: Thanks, I'll try that:
1.) Add 1 shovel-full of coal (is that what you meant by "adding a shovel of coal"?);
2.) Open the air to high;
3.) Once that is burning, shake down;
4.) Add more coal immediately and turn air down to medium;
5.) Turn to low once gasses are burning.

When I do add coal I leave the glass (top) door open till I see some blue flames, Then I turn the air down, close the door, and still see blue flames for about 5 minutes, then they slowly disappear.

QUESTION: Is 5 minutes of blue flames enough time to be mostly assured that the puffback danger time is over?

...because I do get blue flames, they just go out sooner than I thought they should, but maybe I'm OK.

Here's a photo of my setup for those who wonder if I have enough draft. Since I am a novice, I don't know what strong draft is, but if I had to say, I'd say I have strong draft. The blue flames go out when too much air is flowing, I can reproduce this every time by sliding the air intake to full air and the flames go out (just like franco said). So if I have enough draft to blow out the blue flames, I'm thinking I probably have enough draft overall. This place was built to burn coal. It's a ranch with a fully exposed (above grade facing south) finished lower level with vents in the ceiling to heat the rest of the house optionally. So, I'd feel confident that the draft in the chimney was designed well; it's just my black stove pipe that could be the problem, I guess.

franco: thank you for the detailed info! every post you've added to this thread have details I need. What I truly crave are the abstract ideas and processes behind everything so I can universally apply the info to any situation/coal burner. Me knowing what causes puffbacks in general is really all I need to know; If I know that, I can prevent them in ANY situation.

Image
tony17112acst
 

Re: TLC2000 Explosion Blew Apart Stove Pipe, Door Latch Bent Up

PostBy: SteveZee On: Thu Dec 13, 2012 10:54 am

FrancoB's generic instructions are a good start combined with the MPD "etiquette" ;)

Also the strong draft shouldn't "blow out" the blue flames per se but should make them stronger meaning that when you open the throttle fully, you would get more of them unless the gasses have been burned away entirely after some time and there is hot red coals on top. Draft will change depending on the outside temps but it sounds like you have begun to figure out your situation. By adding your refueling in layers versus all at once you will help to avoid the explosive situation.

PS: Good looking stove and hearth.
SteveZee
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Glenwood Modern Oak 116 & Glenwood 208 C Range

Re: TLC2000 Explosion Blew Apart Stove Pipe, Door Latch Bent Up

PostBy: tony17112acst On: Thu Dec 13, 2012 12:25 pm

Thanks Steve, that thing with the cushions/pillows is a huge coal bin. This place was built to burn coal and it's a more modern house with R19 insulation in the walls. I never would have ever begin to look into coal except that the house had a 100,000 btu coal heater and left over coal here.

Well, here's where the info coming in is different. You say that more air is good for getting blue flames, but franco says that more air (from below) is what CAUSES the puffbacks. Not knowing which is right, I experimented with the air intake slider and more air from below DEFINITELY blows out the blue flames on my unit. Right before my eyes, if I slide the air to full, they start to reduce greatly. RIGHT before they go out, if I slide the air intake to its lowest point, the blue flames come right back. Also opening the top glass door brings the blue flames right back: franco says it's because doing that stops the strong rush of air blowing them out, or stopping them from igniting. Or maybe I'm not interpreting "draft" the correct way, which is possible.

Also, reloading in layers is what makes me feel safest, since the damaging puffback was right after a very large load.

Thanks again for everyone's input! What a great community!
tony17112acst
 

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