What is Libertarianism?

Re: What is Libertarianism?

PostBy: KLook On: Tue Dec 11, 2012 11:49 am

What percentage of the population are elderly, children, mentally challenged, etc? and What percentage of them attribute to that 80%? Do we let them go by the wayside? I think we could most likely trim some fat of that 80%...but how much? Maine's elderly population is even higher than Florida per capita...


And it is worsening. You are insulated with your federal job. People like me are leaving and have been for generations. The ones moving in are cash rich retirees, and a diverse group of trust fund, or otherwise well off people that do not need to work. Their opinions are reshaping Maine and they have a general disdain for the locals. Partly because the locals still living in Maine are the uneducated(welfare) or in the coastal case, fisherman and harvesters of the sea and woods(cowboy attitude). I don't think you see it quite so blatantly in N. Maine, the coast is the draw. However, you will see the back to nature crowd escaping society with the fall in land prices. They are childless or homeschool, generally, and even though the taxes are miniscule compared to where they come from they get onto local boards and fight tooth and nail to stop "progress". Maine was recently put 8th on a list of the worst places to retire to, based on a number of factors. Otherwise, it would be worse. (more retirees)
When the needs of the many outstrip the ability of the few workers(non parasite workers) to pay, something has to give. And I have given plenty due to being "successful". I continue to pay stupid high taxes for nothing in return, the privilege of owning land in Maine I guess, and will continue until they sell or are taken for non payment of taxes. I own one 6 acre parcel of just land that has cost me more in taxes then it is valued at. What is the wisdom of keeping it or fairness in that? The list of people in the town report for non payment of taxes is higher then ever seen. (East Machias) Maine has reached that point I believe.

I find your attitude interesting knowing what I know about the decline in N. Maine. Loring/Caribou, Millinocket mill closings, Houlton shriveling, Presque Isle was doing ok I thought, but it is the center of the county economy wise so anything happening (gov. agencies = false economy) is happening there. Machias is like that. The tax base is fleeing fast in N. Maine and the communities show it. You can buy a 3 bedroom house with 2 car garage for nothing in Millinocket.

You ask if I could trim the fat at DHS? Yes, I know that gov. agencies build empires around themselves to insulate themselves from cuts. I know a girl that sets and plays games all day because they have nothing to do. I saw federal employees play Doom all day long because they had nothing to do. My sister in law is in the social services business in Maine and even she is coming around to the conservative side, based on her experiences. Once the cancer has grown, it has to be removed entirely. There is no magic bullet or chemo that will go in and just get rid of the bad ones. A complete rebuild of the DHS in Maine is necessary. Parasites need to be controlled or they take over. That is why when Lepage took over, they dug in their heels and tried to make it hurt on his watch, just like local school boards always cut popular things like sports to get what they want from the public. Even though the sports were miniscule in the budget or made money(basketball). Same as union techniques.

Kevin

Do you disagree with my opinion that the state has mandated many things with promises attached and reneged on the promise? If so, I suggest you get involved politically and learn from people that have been involved for some time.(40 to 50 years) Another great example is the funding formula for school reimbursement. The southern part of the state and bigger towns just "changed" the formula's and screwed the little towns. They had no political clout to stop it. With LePage, they got it reversed. What will happen with him gone? Any bets?
Just a few points for you to research,

The state changed the funding formula to benefit larger schools. East Machias led the fight and even had small towns send them money(unsolicited) to help defray the cost incurred from their own pockets of the selectman(Kenneth Davis), the school board chairman(Mike Look) and the superintendent(Scott Porter). They drove to Augusta for years and put up with all the tactics to stall, deflect, lie, divert, and get them to give up. Calling meetings out of the blue, canceling them after they drove down(3 1/2 hrs.) Just good solid democracy at work.

The state raised valuations on property, especially coastal towns, because the school reimbursement is based on population and valuation. Higher valuation decreases reimbursement as populations were falling rapidly. Coastal towns got hammered.

The tree growth reimbursement was never honored or fully funded as promised.

The transportation reimbursement for busing was never honored or funded as promised.

The same East Machias contingent beat the state over the consolidation legislation put through by the Socialist, errrr Democrats that penalized towns for not consolidating when it was monetarily and practically not beneficial. The one size rule did not fit all communities and they did not care.
KLook
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Harman VF 3000
Coal Size/Type: rice, bagged, Blaschak
Stove/Furnace Make: Harman (Back In Maine)
Stove/Furnace Model: VF 3000

Re: What is Libertarianism?

PostBy: jpete On: Tue Dec 11, 2012 5:26 pm

Northern Maine wrote:
AS I have asked before...when has anyone in govt. pointed a gun to your head? :bag:


Here's another example of the government gun.

Let's say for example you were taking care of a family member in your home. One day, a blue Crown Victoria with "State" plates on it rolls up and the man comes to your door, identifies himself as being from the Department off Elderly Affairs and says that "someone said" the family member you are taking care of was reported to look like they were uncared for and they demanded entry to your house.

He won't identify who your accuser is or when the accusation was made.

You tell him you'd rather not allow him to enter your house.

He says "That's fine, I'll come back with the police."

You look at your three small children and your wife and wonder if you really want to traumatize them by having who knows what police response when you know "you aren't doing anything wrong."

What do you do? Submit to the government force? Concede and let them in? Or pack up and move to Canada?
jpete
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Harman Mk II
Coal Size/Type: Stove, Nut, Pea
Other Heating: Dino juice

Re: What is Libertarianism?

PostBy: Northern Maine On: Wed Dec 12, 2012 6:37 am

KLook wrote:
What percentage of the population are elderly, children, mentally challenged, etc? and What percentage of them attribute to that 80%? Do we let them go by the wayside? I think we could most likely trim some fat of that 80%...but how much? Maine's elderly population is even higher than Florida per capita...


And it is worsening. You are insulated with your federal job. People like me are leaving and have been for generations. The ones moving in are cash rich retirees, and a diverse group of trust fund, or otherwise well off people that do not need to work. Their opinions are reshaping Maine and they have a general disdain for the locals. Partly because the locals still living in Maine are the uneducated(welfare) or in the coastal case, fisherman and harvesters of the sea and woods(cowboy attitude). I don't think you see it quite so blatantly in N. Maine, the coast is the draw. However, you will see the back to nature crowd escaping society with the fall in land prices. They are childless or homeschool, generally, and even though the taxes are miniscule compared to where they come from they get onto local boards and fight tooth and nail to stop "progress". Maine was recently put 8th on a list of the worst places to retire to, based on a number of factors. Otherwise, it would be worse. (more retirees)
When the needs of the many outstrip the ability of the few workers(non parasite workers) to pay, something has to give. And I have given plenty due to being "successful". I continue to pay stupid high taxes for nothing in return, the privilege of owning land in Maine I guess, and will continue until they sell or are taken for non payment of taxes. I own one 6 acre parcel of just land that has cost me more in taxes then it is valued at. What is the wisdom of keeping it or fairness in that? The list of people in the town report for non payment of taxes is higher then ever seen. (East Machias) Maine has reached that point I believe.

I find your attitude interesting knowing what I know about the decline in N. Maine. Loring/Caribou, Millinocket mill closings, Houlton shriveling, Presque Isle was doing ok I thought, but it is the center of the county economy wise so anything happening (gov. agencies = false economy) is happening there. Machias is like that. The tax base is fleeing fast in N. Maine and the communities show it. You can buy a 3 bedroom house with 2 car garage for nothing in Millinocket.

You ask if I could trim the fat at DHS? Yes, I know that gov. agencies build empires around themselves to insulate themselves from cuts. I know a girl that sets and plays games all day because they have nothing to do. I saw federal employees play Doom all day long because they had nothing to do. My sister in law is in the social services business in Maine and even she is coming around to the conservative side, based on her experiences. Once the cancer has grown, it has to be removed entirely. There is no magic bullet or chemo that will go in and just get rid of the bad ones. A complete rebuild of the DHS in Maine is necessary. Parasites need to be controlled or they take over. That is why when Lepage took over, they dug in their heels and tried to make it hurt on his watch, just like local school boards always cut popular things like sports to get what they want from the public. Even though the sports were miniscule in the budget or made money(basketball). Same as union techniques.

Kevin

Do you disagree with my opinion that the state has mandated many things with promises attached and reneged on the promise? If so, I suggest you get involved politically and learn from people that have been involved for some time.(40 to 50 years) Another great example is the funding formula for school reimbursement. The southern part of the state and bigger towns just "changed" the formula's and screwed the little towns. They had no political clout to stop it. With LePage, they got it reversed. What will happen with him gone? Any bets?
Just a few points for you to research,

The state changed the funding formula to benefit larger schools. East Machias led the fight and even had small towns send them money(unsolicited) to help defray the cost incurred from their own pockets of the selectman(Kenneth Davis), the school board chairman(Mike Look) and the superintendent(Scott Porter). They drove to Augusta for years and put up with all the tactics to stall, deflect, lie, divert, and get them to give up. Calling meetings out of the blue, canceling them after they drove down(3 1/2 hrs.) Just good solid democracy at work.

The state raised valuations on property, especially coastal towns, because the school reimbursement is based on population and valuation. Higher valuation decreases reimbursement as populations were falling rapidly. Coastal towns got hammered.

The tree growth reimbursement was never honored or fully funded as promised.

The transportation reimbursement for busing was never honored or funded as promised.

The same East Machias contingent beat the state over the consolidation legislation put through by the Socialist, errrr Democrats that penalized towns for not consolidating when it was monetarily and practically not beneficial. The one size rule did not fit all communities and they did not care.


I pay my bills accordingly and balance my check book as well and live within my means. I expect nothing less from the govt and agree that cuts should be made to Bureaucracy of government specifically administrators and petty officials. As to programs, specifically I worry about medicare and S.S. and cuts that would be made to those due to the fact I have grandparents utilizing these benefits, as well as, parents that will be utilizing the same in the coming years. We (my brother and I) assist them all in providing snow removal, heat, repairs, etc. but could not sustain providing for the venues mentioned.

Taxes...I think they are too high in many areas of this state....88% of our towns budget goes toward keeping a school of 200 (K-12) open...or school budget is 2.2 million...in a town of only 1100 people that's a lot! We have two thriving industries in my town (McCain Inc. and Huber Inc.) that basically allows us to maintain our schools. Would could close our schools and tuition our children to another school for roughly $800,000 a year! This is a decision that our "town fathers" has chosen to avoid at all costs. Our town also chose not to consolidate with other schools under the mandate made several years back and has paid a yearly penalty of $127,000 for not doing so. In the past two years our schools have lost all state funding from the state because we raise so much taxes via the industry we have...needless to say...if we lose either or both of these industries...we won't have a school system here in town.

I don't disagree with you on Lepage...I voted for the guy, but I think he has a LONG way to go to gain any substantial ground unless he begins to utilize some diplomacy!
Northern Maine
 
Stove/Furnace Make: CENTRAL Boiler CL-5648
Stove/Furnace Model: CL-5648


Re: What is Libertarianism?

PostBy: jpete On: Wed Dec 12, 2012 10:57 am

C'mon NM! What do you do when a government agent shows up at your door demanding access?

You said you've never seen the government gun. I'm giving you real life examples here and you are ignoring them.
jpete
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Harman Mk II
Coal Size/Type: Stove, Nut, Pea
Other Heating: Dino juice

Re: What is Libertarianism?

PostBy: Northern Maine On: Wed Dec 12, 2012 11:25 am

jpete wrote:C'mon NM! What do you do when a government agent shows up at your door demanding access?

You said you've never seen the government gun. I'm giving you real life examples here and you are ignoring them.


If buccaneers and buried gold
And all the old romance be told
Exactly in the ancient way
Can please as me they pleased of old
The wiser youngsters of today....SO BE IT! :)

And may ye be blessed with 1000 lashes with a "wet" noodle! :P
Northern Maine
 
Stove/Furnace Make: CENTRAL Boiler CL-5648
Stove/Furnace Model: CL-5648

Re: What is Libertarianism?

PostBy: jpete On: Wed Dec 12, 2012 11:45 am

So I take your nonsensical response as an avoidance.

So be it I indeed.

None are so blind as those that WILL NOT see.
jpete
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Harman Mk II
Coal Size/Type: Stove, Nut, Pea
Other Heating: Dino juice

Re: What is Libertarianism?

PostBy: Northern Maine On: Wed Dec 12, 2012 11:46 am

jpete wrote:So I take your nonsensical response as an avoidance.

So be it I indeed.

None are so blind as those that WILL NOT see.


Ye be sail’N amid a Scurvy savagery, it’d be smarts of ya to keep yer langy-loving tongue w’Ere it belong, and not be sassing! :rofl:
Northern Maine
 
Stove/Furnace Make: CENTRAL Boiler CL-5648
Stove/Furnace Model: CL-5648

Re: What is Libertarianism?

PostBy: KLook On: Wed Dec 12, 2012 11:47 am

I typed up another diatribe and deleted it NM. You are not that far off of where I was 10 years ago. But your federal job will insulate you a little compared to what I have experienced and learned by reading and being in a few forums. I believe Maine is being fundamentely transformed, and I have strong opinions as to where Maine is going and why. And it has nothing to do with Liberty. In case you missed it in the earlier post, "People make bad decisions so we have to make them for them".

Kevin
KLook
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Harman VF 3000
Coal Size/Type: rice, bagged, Blaschak
Stove/Furnace Make: Harman (Back In Maine)
Stove/Furnace Model: VF 3000

Re: What is Libertarianism?

PostBy: Northern Maine On: Wed Dec 12, 2012 11:49 am

KLook wrote:I typed up another diatribe and deleted it NM. You are not that far off of where I was 10 years ago. But your federal job will insulate you a little compared to what I have experienced and learned by reading and being in a few forums. I believe Maine is being fundamentely transformed, and I have strong opinions as to where Maine is going and why. And it has nothing to do with Liberty. In case you missed it in the earlier post, "People make bad decisions so we have to make them for them".

Kevin


Agreed! :)
Northern Maine
 
Stove/Furnace Make: CENTRAL Boiler CL-5648
Stove/Furnace Model: CL-5648

Re: What is Libertarianism?

PostBy: jpete On: Wed Dec 12, 2012 12:01 pm

Northern Maine wrote:
jpete wrote:So I take your nonsensical response as an avoidance.

So be it I indeed.

None are so blind as those that WILL NOT see.


Ye be sail’N amid a Scurvy savagery, it’d be smarts of ya to keep yer langy-loving tongue w’Ere it belong, and not be sassing! :rofl:


Really? That's what you've got?

Sad.....
jpete
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Harman Mk II
Coal Size/Type: Stove, Nut, Pea
Other Heating: Dino juice

Re: What is Libertarianism?

PostBy: Northern Maine On: Wed Dec 12, 2012 12:19 pm

jpete wrote:
Northern Maine wrote:
jpete wrote:So I take your nonsensical response as an avoidance.

So be it I indeed.

None are so blind as those that WILL NOT see.


Ye be sail’N amid a Scurvy savagery, it’d be smarts of ya to keep yer langy-loving tongue w’Ere it belong, and not be sassing! :rofl:


Really? That's what you've got?

Sad.....


“AVAST! ye willy livered ingrade!” :P
Northern Maine
 
Stove/Furnace Make: CENTRAL Boiler CL-5648
Stove/Furnace Model: CL-5648

Re: What is Libertarianism?

PostBy: jpete On: Wed Dec 12, 2012 12:22 pm

Hey NM, I saw this and thought of you....MOO!

jpete
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Harman Mk II
Coal Size/Type: Stove, Nut, Pea
Other Heating: Dino juice

Re: What is Libertarianism?

PostBy: Northern Maine On: Wed Dec 12, 2012 12:36 pm

jpete wrote:Hey NM, I saw this and thought of you....MOO!



Take what you can, give nothing back! Ye might be a canvas short of a full sail! See you in Davie Jones' Locker! :rofl:
Northern Maine
 
Stove/Furnace Make: CENTRAL Boiler CL-5648
Stove/Furnace Model: CL-5648

Re: What is Libertarianism?

PostBy: jpete On: Wed Dec 12, 2012 1:07 pm

I highly doubt you could maintain focus to watch all 16 minutes and even if you did sit through it, you weren't listening.

But you have fun dressing up like a pirate. I'm sure everything will be OK.
jpete
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Harman Mk II
Coal Size/Type: Stove, Nut, Pea
Other Heating: Dino juice

Re: What is Libertarianism?

PostBy: Northern Maine On: Wed Dec 12, 2012 1:11 pm

jpete wrote:I highly doubt you could maintain focus to watch all 16 minutes and even if you did sit through it, you weren't listening.

But you have fun dressing up like a pirate. I'm sure everything will be OK.


Have you ever kissed the gunners daughter knave? :clap:

You see Jpete...our banter here over the passed several posts, shows that I too can pretend to be something I'm not and utilize language to show it...I regress to your scholarly wisdom and hope that someday your dreams of "gold and silver" come true! :notworthy:
Northern Maine
 
Stove/Furnace Make: CENTRAL Boiler CL-5648
Stove/Furnace Model: CL-5648