Michigan "Right To Work"

Re: Michigan "Right To Work"

PostBy: Northern Maine On: Thu Dec 13, 2012 2:03 pm

So what do we cut Jpete?
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Re: Michigan "Right To Work"

PostBy: jpete On: Thu Dec 13, 2012 2:19 pm

Everything.

Big Government and Big Business are made up of people.

You think business is "evil", I think government is "evil". I think that means "people are evil" if we do the syllogism.

Yet you somehow still want to give a certain group of "evil" people the power to kill you and steal your stuff.

I don't understand that philosophy.
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Re: Michigan "Right To Work"

PostBy: Northern Maine On: Thu Dec 13, 2012 2:40 pm

jpete wrote:Everything.

Big Government and Big Business are made up of people.

You think business is "evil", I think government is "evil". I think that means "people are evil" if we do the syllogism.

Yet you somehow still want to give a certain group of "evil" people the power to kill you and steal your stuff.

I don't understand that philosophy.


Politics would be much less entertaining, but a hell of a lot more rational, if once the "government is bad" rhetoric started flying, people started asking questions like these:

What government services do you plan to cut?

What exactly do those programs do? How well do they work? How much do they cost now?

Who stands to benefit from the proposed cuts?

Are these cuts a smokescreen for increasing spending somewhere else?

What's Congress actually doing (as opposed to what it says it's doing)?

In short, be skeptical: not just about government, but about business, and about the motives of the people who want to get government off their backs. What do they want to do once it's gone?
Northern Maine
 
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Re: Michigan "Right To Work"

PostBy: jpete On: Thu Dec 13, 2012 3:08 pm

I believe I answered that.
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Re: Michigan "Right To Work"

PostBy: Berlin On: Thu Dec 13, 2012 4:09 pm

Northern Maine wrote: and about the motives of the people who want to get government off their backs. What do they want to do once it's gone?


Persue our dreams without the beast on our backs. Build businesses, create growth and prosperity. But it will never happen with people suckling and clinging on the government tit even harder at just the thought of more freedom and liberty. Classical liberalism and the ideas of The Enlightenment have been lost in the gavage of lefty propaganda digested by schoolchildren since the 50's.
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Re: Michigan "Right To Work"

PostBy: Northern Maine On: Thu Dec 13, 2012 4:34 pm

Berlin wrote:
Northern Maine wrote: and about the motives of the people who want to get government off their backs. What do they want to do once it's gone?


Persue our dreams without the beast on our backs. Build businesses, create growth and prosperity. But it will never happen with people suckling and clinging on the government tit even harder at just the thought of more freedom and liberty. Classical liberalism and the ideas of The Enlightenment have been lost in the gavage of lefty propaganda digested by schoolchildren since the 50's.


Are "people' the only ones suckling and clinging on the government? Could corporate America be doing the same and costing just as much? In building businesses, creating jobs and prosperity is it plausible to do so without handouts to corporations as well? Should businesses/corporations be allowed to move out of the U.S. taking jobs from our own and hide their profits elswhere?
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Re: Michigan "Right To Work"

PostBy: plumb-r On: Thu Dec 13, 2012 5:02 pm

Maybe if the unions and thier workers weren't sucking the life out of companys here they wouldn't have to go overseas to make a buck. Have you ever thought thats why the jobs are leaving? :idea:
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Re: Michigan "Right To Work"

PostBy: jpete On: Thu Dec 13, 2012 5:33 pm

Northern Maine wrote:
Berlin wrote:
Northern Maine wrote: and about the motives of the people who want to get government off their backs. What do they want to do once it's gone?


Persue our dreams without the beast on our backs. Build businesses, create growth and prosperity. But it will never happen with people suckling and clinging on the government tit even harder at just the thought of more freedom and liberty. Classical liberalism and the ideas of The Enlightenment have been lost in the gavage of lefty propaganda digested by schoolchildren since the 50's.


Are "people' the only ones suckling and clinging on the government? Could corporate America be doing the same and costing just as much? In building businesses, creating jobs and prosperity is it plausible to do so without handouts to corporations as well? Should businesses/corporations be allowed to move out of the U.S. taking jobs from our own and hide their profits elswhere?


By what justification do you claim to be able to "allow" someone to move out of the country or not?

How do you propose ANY business model run that isn't corrupted by government or any system of government which cannot be influenced by business?
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Re: Michigan "Right To Work"

PostBy: Northern Maine On: Thu Dec 13, 2012 5:47 pm

plumb-r wrote:Maybe if the unions and thier workers weren't sucking the life out of companys here they wouldn't have to go overseas to make a buck. Have you ever thought thats why the jobs are leaving? :idea:


1. Unions Gave Us The Weekend
2. Unions Gave Us Fair Wages And Relative Income Equality
3. Unions Helped End Child Labor
4. Unions Won Widespread Employer-Based Health Coverage
5. Unions Spearheaded The Fight For The Family And Medical Leave Act

These basic things that unions have provided are not what a company that has moved out of the country has had to worry about...In fact, the company disregards all of them!
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Re: Michigan "Right To Work"

PostBy: freetown fred On: Thu Dec 13, 2012 6:11 pm

Having worked UNION in the 60's & 70's, when members were prioritised. I've thought about it a lot & agree with you 100%. Unions used to set the guide lines for companies, today, like you stated, THEY, not so much the workers are sucking the life out of the economy & it's for the hierarchy that seemingly put their own gains in the forefront. To many current generation union workers are for the most part slackers that knew someone to get in-in the first place & needed minimal skills to do so. Just an old farmers thoughts.
plumb-r wrote:Maybe if the unions and their workers weren't sucking the life out of companies here they wouldn't have to go overseas to make a buck. Have you ever thought that's why the jobs are leaving? :idea:
Last edited by freetown fred on Thu Dec 13, 2012 6:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Michigan "Right To Work"

PostBy: jpete On: Thu Dec 13, 2012 6:11 pm

So if unions gave us all that, what do we need government for?
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Re: Michigan "Right To Work"

PostBy: Northern Maine On: Thu Dec 13, 2012 6:15 pm

jpete wrote:So if unions gave us all that, what do we need government for?


I think your bright enough to figure that out!
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Re: Michigan "Right To Work"

PostBy: jpete On: Thu Dec 13, 2012 6:17 pm

Northern Maine wrote:
jpete wrote:So if unions gave us all that, what do we need government for?


I think your bright enough to figure that out!


Nope.

These union things sound great. I think we should all have one. :)
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Re: Michigan "Right To Work"

PostBy: Northern Maine On: Thu Dec 13, 2012 6:25 pm

jpete wrote:
Northern Maine wrote:
jpete wrote:So if unions gave us all that, what do we need government for?


I think your bright enough to figure that out!


Nope.

These union things sound great. I think we should all have one. :)


Put your children to work at 5% of what you used to make...so you can survive while your in training!
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Re: Michigan "Right To Work"

PostBy: rubicondave33 On: Thu Dec 13, 2012 7:09 pm

I didn't know anyone, nor am I related to anyone in the IBEW. In the construction industry we are required to complete projects both large and small by a certain date, otherwise liquidated damages must be paid (sometimes up to 10,000 a day to the owner of the property). This being said, we have no time or use for slackers. If someone shows up and doesn't pull his/her weight, they are terminated. As a result, we provide a high quality installation within the allotted time. Remember, we have to install to specifications, NEC, and commission our work as well as test WITH THIRD PARTY INDEPENDENT AGENCIES HIRED BY THE OWNER. Oddly enough, we have been called to numerous projects to assist our non-union competitors near the end of the project, to bring it in on time. We also realize there will always be non-union competition and union or not, we're all just trying to make a living. And yes, the non-union shops also have to install to specifications, NEC, commissioning and third party independent testing agencies hired by the owner.
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