And the walls come tumbling down

And the walls come tumbling down

PostBy: AA130FIREMAN On: Thu Dec 13, 2012 12:56 am

Started my project. When I moved in the the first thing my cousin said was (I would take down that wall) so I did :D The thought of removing the wall was on my mind for years. It really feels BIG. Also tore down the old panneling :oops: :sick: in favor of drywall, hardwood floors, new cabinets,tile floor,rerouting wires,new recessed lighting, etc. etc. Still alot to do.
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AA130FIREMAN
 
Stove/Furnace Make: axeman anderson
Stove/Furnace Model: 130 anthratube

Re: And the walls come tumbling down

PostBy: anthony7812 On: Thu Dec 13, 2012 1:26 am

Nice... I have the same thoughts about my kitchen to dining room. Looks very similar to my layout. Awesome work.
anthony7812
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: VanWert VA 400
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Harman Mark III
Coal Size/Type: Buck/Nut/Anthracite

Re: And the walls come tumbling down

PostBy: NoSmoke On: Thu Dec 13, 2012 4:44 am

It is a big job but very fulfilling once it is done.

I started a big kitchen/living room/dining room retrofit last year and still have a long ways to go, but the open house concept is nice to live in. We plan on doing some more renovations, but must wait another month until we find out what flavor the new baby is. I have a 4 bedroom house and with the 4th child on the way, it does not work out too well. The current plan is to double up all four girls if it turns out to be a girl and make a current bedroom into a bigger living room, and if it is a boy...well we need to build a nursery.

Best wishes with your project.
NoSmoke
 
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: New Yoker WC90
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Vogelzang Pot Bellied Stove
Coal Size/Type: Stove/Nut/Pea Anthracite
Other Heating: Munchkin LP Boiler (Back-up)


Re: And the walls come tumbling down

PostBy: jpete On: Thu Dec 13, 2012 8:34 pm

I have the same thoughts about my kitchen, an the rest of the structure around the kitchen. :)
jpete
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Harman Mk II
Coal Size/Type: Stove, Nut, Pea
Other Heating: Dino juice

Re: And the walls come tumbling down

PostBy: AA130FIREMAN On: Fri Dec 14, 2012 12:45 am

I'm making progress, just too slowly. I'm thinking of a viking stainless stove with propane gas and electric oven . Any thoughts on the propane. And what is the best gas line to use ?
AA130FIREMAN
 
Stove/Furnace Make: axeman anderson
Stove/Furnace Model: 130 anthratube

Re: And the walls come tumbling down

PostBy: SMITTY On: Fri Dec 14, 2012 12:49 am

I have the same thoughts about my entire house ....... :|
SMITTY
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Patriot Coal - custom built by Jim Dorsey
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Harman Mark III (not currently in use)
Coal Size/Type: Rice / Blaschak anthracite
Other Heating: Oil fired Burnham boiler

Re: And the walls come tumbling down

PostBy: NoSmoke On: Fri Dec 14, 2012 5:13 am

They make a nice corrugated stainless type of tubing that is really nice. It is cheaper than copper tubing and can be run inside the house. I used that when installing an appliance and had to run it overhead in my attic.

I would also go with a 2 pound system and a manifold in case you wanted to change appliances over to propane in the future. I did this in my house and it came in extremely handy when I swapped my electric clothes dryer for a propane one, added a propane range, and still have plenty of supply for more appliances if I need to add them on. You may already have this, but it is a thought anyway.

AA130FIREMAN wrote:I'm making progress, just too slowly. I'm thinking of a viking stainless stove with propane gas and electric oven . Any thoughts on the propane. And what is the best gas line to use ?
NoSmoke
 
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: New Yoker WC90
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Vogelzang Pot Bellied Stove
Coal Size/Type: Stove/Nut/Pea Anthracite
Other Heating: Munchkin LP Boiler (Back-up)

Re: And the walls come tumbling down

PostBy: freetown fred On: Fri Dec 14, 2012 7:54 am

Lookin real nice AA. :) I know I took a couple walls out in the old homestead here & it helped incredibly with heat distribution. :)
freetown fred
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: HITZER 50-93
Coal Size/Type: BLASCHAK Nut/Stove mix

Re: And the walls come tumbling down

PostBy: Dann757 On: Fri Dec 14, 2012 8:38 am

AA130FIREMAN wrote: And what is the best gas line to use ?

I usually just use an old garden hose :D

Looks very good- my ex sister in law for life just did a similar change to her kitchen. They put a sunroom off the kitchen on their cape decades ago, now I saw one pic of the job and it really opened up the place. Very nice view of the woods behind the house. Maybe I'm jealous, but I can never figure out their priorities. The old cape has no soffits and the trim with dentil moulding around the outside of the house has needed paint for 15 years at least. Old aluminum siding is faded bad and needs a new color scheme, etc. Their house is like an episode of hoarders :D , but then again so is my shop ;) The hardwood floors inside are worn bare; a couple hours and a quart of polyurethane could at least touch it up where they don't have mismatched carpets hahahhaha.

She has a 'new' beau for quite a few years now and I avoid that guy like the plague- the guy thinks he's Jungle Jack Hanna. He lures and feeds the black bears up there; brings them right up on the deck. :wtf:
They found a baby duck last year and he thought they could let it go back to the wild after 6 weeks. Now they have a pet duck that thinks she is its mother. They let it in the house. Just bizarre.
Dann757
 

Re: And the walls come tumbling down

PostBy: coalkirk On: Fri Dec 14, 2012 9:48 am

NoSmoke wrote:They make a nice corrugated stainless type of tubing that is really nice. It is cheaper than copper tubing and can be run inside the house. I used that when installing an appliance and had to run it overhead in my attic.

I would also go with a 2 pound system and a manifold in case you wanted to change appliances over to propane in the future. I did this in my house and it came in extremely handy when I swapped my electric clothes dryer for a propane one, added a propane range, and still have plenty of supply for more appliances if I need to add them on. You may already have this, but it is a thought anyway.

AA130FIREMAN wrote:I'm making progress, just too slowly. I'm thinking of a viking stainless stove with propane gas and electric oven . Any thoughts on the propane. And what is the best gas line to use ?


DO NOT USE THE CORRUGATED STAINLESS STEEL TUBING

That material (CSST) has a fatal flaw. I know all the plumbers on the forum will tell me that this stuff is the greatest thing since indoor toilets but I would not put that material in my home. Plumbers like it cause it comes in a big roll and all they have to do is cut it to length and install fittings. Much less labor intensive than black iron. However if your home is struck by lightning or even a CLOSE lightning strike, it will blow a hole through this stuff and you've got a blow torch in your house. Talk about walls come tumbling down. Right now this stuff is legal, meets code etc, but things are in the works to change all that. The NFPA did a study of this material last year and issued a lengthy report the conclusion of which is this stuff will fail regardless of installation and bonding. Here is a link to it. USE BLACK IRON. It's been used for 100 years without any problems if properly instsalled.



http://www.nfpa.org/assets/files//PDF/Research/CSST%20Gas%20Piping%20Ph.1%20Final%20Report.pdf
This link is broken, either the page no longer exists or there is some other issue like a typo.
coalkirk
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Harman VF3000
Coal Size/Type: antrhcite/rice coal

Re: And the walls come tumbling down

PostBy: steamup On: Fri Dec 14, 2012 11:24 am

CSST manufacturers require special training for installation of their product and do not sell to the non-proffessional. That ought to tell you something right there.

CSST is one of those products that is more expensive per foot than black iron but is quick to install. Therefor the pipe fitter with high labor rates can provide a total installed system for less.

Bonding is a must with the stuff.

I would stick to black iron. Use the special gas rated teflon tape with it. It is a couple of dollars per roll more but much more heavy duty.
steamup
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Axeman-Anderson AA-130, Keystoker K-6
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: HS Tarm 502 Wood/Coal/Oil
Coal Size/Type: pea, buck, rice

Re: And the walls come tumbling down

PostBy: I'm On Fire On: Fri Dec 14, 2012 1:54 pm

Looks good. I'm going to hopefully embark on the same journey this tax season. My kitchen is from the 1940's and needs a serious update.
I'm On Fire
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: DS Machines DS-1600 Hot Air Circulator

Re: And the walls come tumbling down

PostBy: coalkirk On: Fri Dec 14, 2012 5:33 pm

steamup wrote:CSST manufacturers require special training for installation of their product and do not sell to the non-proffessional. That ought to tell you something right there.

CSST is one of those products that is more expensive per foot than black iron but is quick to install. Therefor the pipe fitter with high labor rates can provide a total installed system for less.

Bonding is a must with the stuff.

I would stick to black iron. Use the special gas rated teflon tape with it. It is a couple of dollars per roll more but much more heavy duty.


Steamup - I saw it at Home Depot just this week. I agree it should not be installed by a none professional but given what has been occuring with it in a lightning situation, It should be recalled and taken out of code. Most plumber are not even aware of the problems with it. About 80% of the time, I see it bonded in the basement at the manifold. The bonding per manufacturer specs must be after the gas meter but before the first section of CSST. Even then it will fail per the NFPA. It's a bad material even when installed to specs.
coalkirk
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Harman VF3000
Coal Size/Type: antrhcite/rice coal

Re: And the walls come tumbling down

PostBy: steamup On: Sat Dec 15, 2012 2:10 pm

coalkirk wrote:
steamup wrote:CSST manufacturers require special training for installation of their product and do not sell to the non-proffessional. That ought to tell you something right there.

CSST is one of those products that is more expensive per foot than black iron but is quick to install. Therefor the pipe fitter with high labor rates can provide a total installed system for less.

Bonding is a must with the stuff.

I would stick to black iron. Use the special gas rated teflon tape with it. It is a couple of dollars per roll more but much more heavy duty.


Steamup - I saw it at Home Depot just this week. I agree it should not be installed by a none professional but given what has been occuring with it in a lightning situation, It should be recalled and taken out of code. Most plumber are not even aware of the problems with it. About 80% of the time, I see it bonded in the basement at the manifold. The bonding per manufacturer specs must be after the gas meter but before the first section of CSST. Even then it will fail per the NFPA. It's a bad material even when installed to specs.



Well, it was probably just a matter of time before a manufacturer figured they would try to tap the homeowner do it yourself market and make extra dollars.

We will see how long it lasts. Too many ignorant folks think they know how to do things and take shortcuts. I got a few of those in my family

Off the subject a little, there was a guy in Niagara County in New York that ran low on propane and smelled gas in his home. He called the propane company and they told him the gas smell was probably stronger because of the ordorant in the bottom of the tank makes the gas smell stronger. They told him they could be out until the next day with propane and a service team.

He decided to change out the main tank and hook his line to a portable bottle. His house blew up in the morning killing one of his kids. He is now sueing the propane company for "giving him a false sense of security" about the gas smell.

I feel sorry for him and his family but think the lawsuit is unwarranted.

I am afraid it will be just a matter of time before a CSST manufacturer gets sued.
steamup
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Axeman-Anderson AA-130, Keystoker K-6
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: HS Tarm 502 Wood/Coal/Oil
Coal Size/Type: pea, buck, rice

Re: And the walls come tumbling down

PostBy: NoSmoke On: Sat Dec 15, 2012 4:36 pm

I have had it for 6 years in my home with no issues, and am glad I used it. To run black iron pipe would have been a real bear in this application, and copper would have been super expensive and a lot less robust compared to the CSST.

I cannot see how it would be worse then copper in a lightning strike, I thought copper conducted electricity a lot better then stainless steel? And it would seem to me that one continuous tube from point A to Point B would be far better then black iron pipe filled with numerous fittings and the potential for leaks? I had no idea though that it was not a Home-Owner type of product. I would think it would be perfect for that, grab and end of it and make a run to the appliance and be done with it.

I don't worry about nay-sayers too much. I learned a long time ago whenever something new comes out, people find something wrong it. My propane company said the same thing about a 2 lb system at my house; how it was unsafe and that they would never hook up a 2 lb system for their customers and all that, and then 2 years later they tell me they have adopted the design and now use it all the time.

Change takes time.
NoSmoke
 
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: New Yoker WC90
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Vogelzang Pot Bellied Stove
Coal Size/Type: Stove/Nut/Pea Anthracite
Other Heating: Munchkin LP Boiler (Back-up)