If you're American...

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Re: If you're American...

PostBy: SteveZee On: Mon Dec 17, 2012 10:24 pm

franco b wrote:
SteveZee wrote:Lastly I've got some reading for you. It's by Richard Dawkins.

Aside from some commentary from time to time the only thing written by Richard Dawkins that I have read is "The Blind Watchmaker" which I enjoyed very much as far as it goes. Other explicators of evolutionary theory such as Stephen Jay Gould also have a lot to contribute to understanding. The widespread belief that somehow this negates religion is just wrong. The Catholic Church and most others accept the evolutionary development of man and animals as a fact.

Evolutionary theory applies to everything since it explains why and how things change over time; our economy, our bodies, our thoughts, our technology, our universe. It is the ultimate in pragmatism.

Concepts of God start to get in trouble when we attempt to define the nature of God. Some beliefs such as Taoism and our Native Americans just acknowledge a presence that can't be defined. In essence the sum total of natural law, most of which is beyond our understanding or even awareness because as human beings we are too subject to our own instincts.

Buddhism and the more mystical branches of all the major religions seek to overcome that human flaw and gain enlightenment and the ability to understand the ultimate reality which is God.

Because that path is so arduous and few will succeed the Religions give us simple rules for the conduct of life which if followed will result in a contented and fulfilled life.

That is a very thoughtfull post Richard. Thanks for that. I do have a couple of SJ Gould's books, Rocks of Ages comes to mind and Dawkins-The Selfish Gene is a good one too.
SteveZee
 
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Re: If you're American...

PostBy: BillMarti On: Fri Dec 28, 2012 4:08 pm

So when men that claim to be christian do evil in the name of God then all that are actually biblical Christians are guilty even though they had nothing to do with theses atrocity's? Is this a typical atheist mantra? You see as was pointed out to you the Crusades and the Spanish Inquisition was solely carried out by the catholic church. Now if you could be so kind as to show us in God's word in the New Covenant where these atrocity's are condoned by God in any way you have a right to accuse but until then you really don't have a foot to stand on. To be honest atheism has caused far more atrocity's than any religion....Stalin, Hitler and a few others. It would seem today it's ok to malign, murder and torture Christians while atheists turn a blind eye....Sudan and many muslim countries. Any Christian that murders others in the name of God because of others not believing in the Christian faith are wrong and guilty of the crime of murder and deserve the death penalty as per God Himself (thou shalt not murder).
BillMarti
 
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Re: If you're American...

PostBy: SteveZee On: Fri Dec 28, 2012 4:14 pm

BillMarti wrote:So when men that claim to be christian do evil in the name of God then all that are actually biblical Christians are guilty even though they had nothing to do with theses atrocity's? Is this a typical atheist mantra? You see as was pointed out to you the Crusades and the Spanish Inquisition was solely carried out by the catholic church. Now if you could be so kind as to show us in God's word in the New Covenant where these atrocity's are condoned by God in any way you have a right to accuse but until then you really don't have a foot to stand on. To be honest atheism has caused far more atrocity's than any religion....Stalin, Hitler and a few others. It would seem today it's ok to malign, murder and torture Christians while atheists turn a blind eye....Sudan and many muslim countries. Any Christian that murders others in the name of God because of others not believing in the Christian faith are wrong and guilty of the crime of murder and deserve the death penalty.


Hitler was a Christian and I wasn't accusing Christian's I was stating a fact that throughout history, more wars have been fought over religeon than for any other reason. Pogrom's Ethnic cleansing, the Meso-American irratiffication by the Spanish etc....etc...
Athiest's don't believe in any God's. You only believe in one. We're not that far apart! ;)
SteveZee
 
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Re: If you're American...

PostBy: KLook On: Fri Dec 28, 2012 4:26 pm

So as humans, we are supposed to turn a blind eye to Christian organizations murdering, or forget about an equally murderous history, and condemn all other religious groups, because you say so. I think the difference in amount of people killed is more a statement of the methods available to the persons or groups at that time in military development. All groups from the PTA club on are the same. If the Ark of the Covenant were discovered would the Israelies use it wisely or rage amongst the other groups wiping them out, including the Gentiles? I have my opinion about that, what is yours?

Kevin
KLook
 
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Re: If you're American...

PostBy: BillMarti On: Fri Dec 28, 2012 4:28 pm

SteveZee wrote:
BillMarti wrote:So when men that claim to be christian do evil in the name of God then all that are actually biblical Christians are guilty even though they had nothing to do with theses atrocity's? Is this a typical atheist mantra? You see as was pointed out to you the Crusades and the Spanish Inquisition was solely carried out by the catholic church. Now if you could be so kind as to show us in God's word in the New Covenant where these atrocity's are condoned by God in any way you have a right to accuse but until then you really don't have a foot to stand on. To be honest atheism has caused far more atrocity's than any religion....Stalin, Hitler and a few others. It would seem today it's ok to malign, murder and torture Christians while atheists turn a blind eye....Sudan and many muslim countries. Any Christian that murders others in the name of God because of others not believing in the Christian faith are wrong and guilty of the crime of murder and deserve the death penalty.


Hitler was a Christian and I wasn't accusing Christian's I was stating a fact that throughout history, more wars have been fought over religeon than for any other reason.


Again I'll remind you when one calls themselves a Christian and murders in the name of God it doesn't make it so. There were no wars over Christianity or the religion thereof but rather a war carried out by the catholic for political reasons and greed. The catholic church does not and never did speak for biblical Christians. There have been more people murdered by atheist governments in the last 200 years than the cathoilc did in two wars. There is not one war that was started by Biblical Christians but many fought by other religions such as atheists and pagans
BillMarti
 
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Re: If you're American...

PostBy: BillMarti On: Fri Dec 28, 2012 4:31 pm

KLook wrote:So as humans, we are supposed to turn a blind eye to Christian organizations murdering, or forget about an equally murderous history, and condemn all other religious groups, because you say so. I think the difference in amount of people killed is more a statement of the methods available to the persons or groups at that time in military development. All groups from the PTA club on are the same. If the Ark of the Covenant were discovered would the Israelies use it wisely or rage amongst the other groups wiping them out, including the Gentiles? I have my opinion about that, what is yours?

Kevin


Maybe your not paying attention to what i said? The CATHOLIC CHURCH is solely responsible for what you keep complaining about. So what BIBLICAL Christian organization is doing all this murdering today or ever?
BillMarti
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: EFM 520
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Stove/Furnace Make: EFM 520, 1980
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Re: If you're American...

PostBy: KLook On: Fri Dec 28, 2012 5:01 pm

Maybe your not paying attention to what i said? The CATHOLIC CHURCH


Oh, I am paying attention. The Catholic Church would call whatever religion you represent a wannabe. Yeah, I am familiar with the original Martin Luther etc.
There are groups of Muslims in this country claiming not to be like THOSE muslims either. I ain't buying it from them or you. In case you can't read either I said,
All groups from the PTA club on are the same.


Kevin
KLook
 
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Re: If you're American...

PostBy: BillMarti On: Fri Dec 28, 2012 5:17 pm

Klook "Oh, I am paying attention. The Catholic Church would call whatever religion you represent a wannabe. Yeah, I am familiar with the original Martin Luther etc.
There are groups of Muslims in this country claiming not to be like THOSE muslims either. I ain't buying it from them or you. In case you can't read either I said,"

So you really don't have any proof to back up your unfounded opinion right?
BillMarti
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: EFM 520
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Stove/Furnace Make: EFM 520, 1980
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Re: If you're American...

PostBy: KLook On: Fri Dec 28, 2012 5:27 pm

Proof when talking about religion? Lets see yours first! ;)

Kevin
KLook
 
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Re: If you're American...

PostBy: KLook On: Fri Dec 28, 2012 5:30 pm

While I am enjoying this immensely, we might as well stop mr. billmarti. You fit the blind faith description that we talk about and we fit the ignorant of the obvious description you talk about. It ain't gonna be solved by you and I today.

Kevin
KLook
 
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Re: If you're American...

PostBy: freetown fred On: Fri Dec 28, 2012 5:40 pm

I guess I'm just kinda dumb here Kevin, but you talkin PTA or PTL--what's PTA---parent teachers assoc.?????
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Re: If you're American...

PostBy: BillMarti On: Fri Dec 28, 2012 5:41 pm

KLook wrote:While I am enjoying this immensely, we might as well stop mr. billmarti. You fit the blind faith description that we talk about and we fit the ignorant of the obvious description you talk about. It ain't gonna be solved by you and I today.

Kevin


I'd say the pot calling the kettle black because you've yet to back up any of your unfounded accusations right? I never claimed what my faith was I just called you out on yours.
BillMarti
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: EFM 520
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Stove/Furnace Make: EFM 520, 1980
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Re: If you're American...

PostBy: BillMarti On: Fri Dec 28, 2012 5:45 pm

freetown fred wrote:I guess I'm just kinda dumb here Kevin, but you talkin PTA or PTL--what's PTA---parent teachers assoc.?????


He's doing the typical atheist thing and lumping people that claim to be christian to those that are actual biblical Christians. The PTL is a faux christian TV "evangelist" money mongering cult ....Pat Roberson.
BillMarti
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: EFM 520
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Re: If you're American...

PostBy: freetown fred On: Fri Dec 28, 2012 5:50 pm

Thanx B M ---I just didn't know where the hell that PTA was coming from. Yes I'm familiar with the TV money suckers. :(
freetown fred
 
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Re: If you're American...

PostBy: BillMarti On: Fri Dec 28, 2012 5:55 pm

freetown fred wrote:Thanx B M ---I just didn't know where the hell that PTA was coming from. Yes I'm familiar with the TV money suckers. :(


The other turn of the coin is that all PTA are not the same because culture dictates their differences......the inner city ones what you can get and the others what you can do to improve.
BillMarti
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: EFM 520
Coal Size/Type: Rice
Stove/Furnace Make: EFM 520, 1980
Stove/Furnace Model: 520