If you're American...

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Re: If you're American...

PostBy: KLook On: Fri Dec 28, 2012 5:57 pm

Don't mind Bill Fred. He is a little wound up right now and choosing to attack when he can't provide proof of anything. He is incorrect in my using PTA instead of PTL. I meant PTA. ALL groups are the same was the point. They are exclusive and inclusive. (If you think like they do) I have made no other assertions Bill other then historical references to murder and mayhem visited by religious groups. You typify the holier them thou attitude, getting shriller by the second rather then debating your points in a calm, constructive way. I can see you standing on a rock trying to rain down gods wrath on us unbelievers.
I didn't decide to become fully atheist until later in life, people like you made it possible. I have to deal with people here in this life, I'll deal with god when it is apparent he is a factor in my life.

Kevin
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Re: If you're American...

PostBy: KLook On: Fri Dec 28, 2012 5:58 pm

He's doing the typical atheist thing and lumping people that claim to be christian to those that are actual biblical Christians


Do you have a special hand signal or sign for me to know who you "good' ones are?

Kevin
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Re: If you're American...

PostBy: SteveZee On: Fri Dec 28, 2012 6:02 pm

BillMarti wrote:
KLook wrote:So as humans, we are supposed to turn a blind eye to Christian organizations murdering, or forget about an equally murderous history, and condemn all other religious groups, because you say so. I think the difference in amount of people killed is more a statement of the methods available to the persons or groups at that time in military development. All groups from the PTA club on are the same. If the Ark of the Covenant were discovered would the Israelies use it wisely or rage amongst the other groups wiping them out, including the Gentiles? I have my opinion about that, what is yours?

Kevin


Maybe your not paying attention to what i said? The CATHOLIC CHURCH is solely responsible for what you keep complaining about. So what BIBLICAL Christian organization is doing all this murdering today or ever?


I thought that any person who believes in Christ is a "brother christian"?

As we type there is sectarian violence happening in Nigeria. That would be Christian/Muslim a rather familiar theme. The Bosnian war yet another recent example. Call it what you will, but many wars throughout history were between religeous factions. At least that was the excuse given. Your point about some Christian sect not being involved is noble but not very relevant.
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Re: If you're American...

PostBy: BillMarti On: Fri Dec 28, 2012 6:03 pm

KLook wrote:Don't mind Bill Fred. He is a little wound up right now and choosing to attack when he can't provide proof of anything. He is incorrect in my using PTA instead of PTL. I meant PTA. ALL groups are the same was the point. They are exclusive and inclusive. (If you think like they do) I have made no other assertions Bill other then historical references to murder and mayhem visited by religious groups. You typify the holier them thou attitude, getting shriller by the second rather then debating your points in a calm, constructive way. I can see you standing on a rock trying to rain down gods wrath on us unbelievers.
I didn't decide to become fully atheist until later in life, people like you made it possible. I have to deal with people here in this life, I'll deal with god when it is apparent he is a factor in my life.

Kevin

Sorry if I caught you totally unprepared to defend yourself but assuming you know what I'm doing shows your closed mindset. I never said or implied the foolish things you accuse me of but you seem to have a real problem with Christians and have not taken the time to listen or learn what a true biblical God honoring Christians really is now have you? You need to do a little growing up to have a reasonable conversation on this subject.
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Re: If you're American...

PostBy: BillMarti On: Fri Dec 28, 2012 6:10 pm

SteveZee wrote:
BillMarti wrote:
KLook wrote:So as humans, we are supposed to turn a blind eye to Christian organizations murdering, or forget about an equally murderous history, and condemn all other religious groups, because you say so. I think the difference in amount of people killed is more a statement of the methods available to the persons or groups at that time in military development. All groups from the PTA club on are the same. If the Ark of the Covenant were discovered would the Israelies use it wisely or rage amongst the other groups wiping them out, including the Gentiles? I have my opinion about that, what is yours?

Kevin


Maybe your not paying attention to what i said? The CATHOLIC CHURCH is solely responsible for what you keep complaining about. So what BIBLICAL Christian organization is doing all this murdering today or ever?


I thought that any person who believes in Christ is a "brother christian"?

As we type there is sectarian violence happening in Nigeria. That would be Christian/Muslim a rather familiar theme. The Bosnian war yet another recent example. Call it what you will, but many wars throughout history were between religeous factions. At least that was the excuse given. Your point about some Christian sect not being involved is noble but not very relevant.

Again you make accusations that you can't back up. Who is the aggressor and who is the defender? Do you KNOW that these "christians" are biblical Christians or do you still assume you know this? My thoughts on this is you outright don't KNOW and are still playing the blame game to make yourself feel better about condemning the innocent biblical Christians. Nowhere in God's word does it said not to defend myself from an aggressor. Are not the Russians, muslims and you still persecuting Christians?
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Re: If you're American...

PostBy: franco b On: Fri Dec 28, 2012 6:18 pm

If you are American it implies a belief in certain principles as enumerated by our founders.

An American citizen lacking that belief I would call un American.

The same thing applies to religion. Those that do not adhere to the tenets of that religion are not of that religion regardless of what they call themselves.

Those who do or have committed atrocities in the name of a faith and if those atrocities are not part of the belief of that faith, then they are not members of that faith. Wicked Popes were just that; wicked Popes. They were not a part of the Church.
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Re: If you're American...

PostBy: KLook On: Fri Dec 28, 2012 6:21 pm

Grow up??? I have plenty of experience with self proclaimed better then me Christians. What a crock those two posts were!! All you did was attack someone for questioning your thoughts? No proof from you of course, it is because it is. Sounds like "I am that I am" , just a little shrill coming from a mere human. You have done nothing in the last several minutes to promote your religion. Intolerance and insults.
Steve just beat me to it. You are delusional where the Christians are concerned.

Kevin
KLook
 
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Re: If you're American...

PostBy: SteveZee On: Fri Dec 28, 2012 6:23 pm

I'm not persecuting anyone. I'm just stating facts. The aggressor in the Bosnian war were the Christians. Same with many of the Crusades. Muslims, Christians or any other sect, it's always about the differences and who's God is omnipotent etc.

Never the less I repeat that war after war from the dawn of time has involved religeous sects. If your "Biblical" Christians were not involved then my hat is off to you but how long has this sect existed? You are still a "Brother Christian" if you believe in Christ and so cannot distance yourself from what other Christians have done. Sorry you can't cherry pick and put it all on Catholics just as I am not putting it ALL on Christians. Religeon in general has been responsible for more bloodshed than atheism ever has since the dawn of time.
Last edited by SteveZee on Fri Dec 28, 2012 6:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: If you're American...

PostBy: KLook On: Fri Dec 28, 2012 6:24 pm

The beliefs enumerated by the founders were carefully worded to not promote a religion. They had enough of the Church of England.

Kevin
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Re: If you're American...

PostBy: BillMarti On: Fri Dec 28, 2012 6:31 pm

KLook wrote:Grow up??? I have plenty of experience with self proclaimed better then me Christians. What a crock those two posts were!! All you did was attack someone for questioning your thoughts? No proof from you of course, it is because it is. Sounds like "I am that I am" , just a little shrill coming from a mere human. You have done nothing in the last several minutes to promote your religion. Intolerance and insults.
Steve just beat me to it. You are delusional where the Christians are concerned.

Kevin

You've only proven how little you KNOW about Christians when I've corrected you numerous times.
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Re: If you're American...

PostBy: KLook On: Fri Dec 28, 2012 6:47 pm

Youve said nothing to prove anything and you have not corrected me yet. Me thinks you are a little full of yourself and your powers of debate.
At any rate, this has gone as I indicated way back and told you to cool your jets. Keep believing Bill, it gives many people the reason to exist and move forward every day. Just take the blinders off about organized religion.
KLook
 
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Re: If you're American...

PostBy: SteveZee On: Fri Dec 28, 2012 6:52 pm

franco b wrote:If you are American it implies a belief in certain principles as enumerated by our founders.

An American citizen lacking that belief I would call un American.

The same thing applies to religion. Those that do not adhere to the tenets of that religion are not of that religion regardless of what they call themselves.

Those who do or have committed atrocities in the name of a faith and if those atrocities are not part of the belief of that faith, then they are not members of that faith. Wicked Popes were just that; wicked Popes. They were not a part of the Church.


I understand what you are implying here Richard but that's awfully convenient to say that they weren't Christian's or Muslim's etc.. because what they did is against the tenets of that faith. That would assume that there are perfect followers of a given faith that never sin and they would be the only true members. If that could happen, I'd say you'd have an awful lot of Prophets walking around. The reality is that they "go astray" for the greater good in their minds, for their beliefs. So they (and their faith) own it.
SteveZee
 
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Re: If you're American...

PostBy: franco b On: Fri Dec 28, 2012 7:00 pm

SteveZee wrote:Religeon in general has been responsible for more bloodshed than atheism ever has since the dawn of time.

Genghis Khan, Alexander, Napoleon, Hitler, Stalin, Mao. Quite a lot of bloodshed there too, without any religion. Atheists all. Aggression is fundamental to our species. Religion has nothing to do with it and has always sought to curb the nastier parts of human nature. What that nature is and why we do what we do is a study that is still largely ignored, probably because it conflicts with our own God like image of ourselves. We are a lot less free than we believe ourselves to be.
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Re: If you're American...

PostBy: franco b On: Fri Dec 28, 2012 7:00 pm

double post
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Re: If you're American...

PostBy: franco b On: Fri Dec 28, 2012 7:13 pm

SteveZee wrote:
franco b wrote:If you are American it implies a belief in certain principles as enumerated by our founders.

An American citizen lacking that belief I would call un American.

The same thing applies to religion. Those that do not adhere to the tenets of that religion are not of that religion regardless of what they call themselves.

Those who do or have committed atrocities in the name of a faith and if those atrocities are not part of the belief of that faith, then they are not members of that faith. Wicked Popes were just that; wicked Popes. They were not a part of the Church.


I understand what you are implying here Richard but that's awfully convenient to say that they weren't Christian's or Muslim's etc.. because what they did is against the tenets of that faith. That would assume that there are perfect followers of a given faith that never sin and they would be the only true members. If that could happen, I'd say you'd have an awful lot of Prophets walking around. The reality is that they "go astray" for the greater good in their minds, for their beliefs. So they (and their faith) own it.

What you say is very true but it does not negate my point that religion at least attempts to be a force for good.
franco b
 
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