Connecticut Shooting

Re: Connecticut Shooting

PostBy: Flyer5 On: Sun Dec 16, 2012 1:45 pm

freetown fred wrote:Remember, the question was asked. This situation must NEVER be forgotten, but it must be gotten over,QUICKLY, it's like gettin thrown off a horse. Insulation from the real world is never the answer. I'm sure the schools will have every available resource at their disposal. As far as your last comment--remember, we/YOU are the ones that have been in favor of all this automated crap. (not pickin on you Dave)



Oh I agree but its a lot easier to be gotten over when you are not directly impacted. I have been off many horses and was always able to get back on. Some of the parents in Connecticut cannot. I guess my confidence in the competence of the people in charge of keeping our families safe has been eroded. My wife and I have decided that we cannot be subdued by the extreme deviant a$$holes that give our media jobs. But also we need some reassurance that the people in charge are doing everything possible to handle any situation. The days of thinking it can't happen to me get diminished over time. She will go to school I can't be overprotective but we can be cautious.
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Re: Connecticut Shooting

PostBy: titleist1 On: Sun Dec 16, 2012 2:03 pm

i would not trust the school or police implicitly to do the right thing without further information

before i would decide i would have a conversation with the principal of the school to see what their "plan" is. I would also have a conversation with the town / county police whichever jurisdiction they fall under to see what their "plan" is.

after hearing that information i would then be able to decide if she goes to school that day or ever or if we needed to find another alternative.
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Re: Connecticut Shooting

PostBy: freetown fred On: Sun Dec 16, 2012 3:12 pm

You're right. They might not meet up to your requierments on how you think all this should be handled. BUT, I guarantee you one thing, that Principal & Teacher did exactly what trhey felt they had to do. And the police were there as soon as notified Me thinks this is the type of situation that requires a School Board meeting with Police Chief there & go over what exactly the game plan is--NO, not at THEIR convenience--at the districts/voters call. I have a feeling that that sick piece of *censored* is just laughing his ass off where-ever he is over the panic he has created here. I don't think he should win in this aspect. Just an old farmers thoughts.
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Re: Connecticut Shooting

PostBy: jpete On: Sun Dec 16, 2012 3:19 pm

One of the reasons we pulled my kids out of school was a half hour "lock down drill" where they had to lie under their desks the whole time.

The illusion of security much like the "duck and cover" drills in the 50's.

Might as well just tell them to put their heads between their legs and kiss their azz goodbye.

I'm just glad I have the ability to pull my kids out of school. Unless someone busts into my living room, I won't be getting the call that my kid is dead on the floor somewhere.
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Re: Connecticut Shooting

PostBy: Flyer5 On: Sun Dec 16, 2012 3:22 pm

freetown fred wrote:You're right. They might not meet up to your requierments on how you think all this should be handled. BUT, I guarantee you one thing, that Principal & Teacher did exactly what trhey felt they had to do. And the police were there as soon as notified Me thinks this is the type of situation that requires a School Board meeting with Police Chief there & go over what exactly the game plan is--NO, not at THEIR convenience--at the districts/voters call. I have a feeling that that sick piece of *censored* is just laughing his ass off where-ever he is over the panic he has created here. I don't think he should win in this aspect. Just an old farmers thoughts.



Speaking to a fellow parent and they know who the person is and have been investigating this since at least Thursday. Why is it not till Sunday till I hear of this situation. These are the answers I will be looking for.

Well anyway not to pull this thread off subject any further. I guess I will see how I feel day by day with what I learn. I remember when we were kids we settled things after school without weapons. Is current society turning our kids into such cowards that they have to do things this extreme now?
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Re: Connecticut Shooting

PostBy: jpete On: Sun Dec 16, 2012 3:27 pm

Flyer5 wrote:
Speaking to a fellow parent and they know who the person is and have been investigating this since at least Thursday. Why is it not till Sunday till I hear of this situation. These are the answers I will be looking for.

Well anyway not to pull this thread off subject any further. I guess I will see how I feel day by day with what I learn. I remember when we were kids we settled things after school without weapons. Is current society turning our kids into such cowards that they have to do things this extreme now?


You're not allowed to do that anymore. Fighting is "bad" in all cases and punishment is handed out equally between the bully and the victim. We've stopped up a vital pressure release and then we wonder why some kids explode.

My oldest friend in the world would alternately be my best friend or worst enemy depending on the day when we were kids. We had some serious battles but we had fun. :)
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Re: Connecticut Shooting

PostBy: freetown fred On: Sun Dec 16, 2012 3:30 pm

Point being, we all have our individual ways of dealing with the reality of life. We who were in school during the 50's survived & probably are much more aware of the concept of following directions to the "T". Again, I would refuse to have this lil piece of *censored* think that he has won. I nor any of my 5 kids have ever been runners. I think that 1/2 hr drill was a wise one on the schools part. Better safe then sorry. I'm always amazed at the amount of armchair experts there are when situations pop up. If the insulation of home schooling is anyone's resolve to all this-might I suggest---have at it.
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Re: Connecticut Shooting

PostBy: freetown fred On: Sun Dec 16, 2012 3:38 pm

These are the questions that need to be presented in an EMERGENCY school board/ police presence meeting.That way you will hear it direct from those in charge of the situation rather then street gossip.
Flyer5 wrote:
freetown fred wrote:You're right. They might not meet up to your requierments on how you think all this should be handled. BUT, I guarantee you one thing, that Principal & Teacher did exactly what trhey felt they had to do. And the police were there as soon as notified Me thinks this is the type of situation that requires a School Board meeting with Police Chief there & go over what exactly the game plan is--NO, not at THEIR convenience--at the districts/voters call. I have a feeling that that sick piece of *censored* is just laughing his ass off where-ever he is over the panic he has created here. I don't think he should win in this aspect. Just an old farmers thoughts.



Speaking to a fellow parent and they know who the person is and have been investigating this since at least Thursday. Why is it not till Sunday till I hear of this situation. These are the answers I will be looking for.

Well anyway not to pull this thread off subject any further. I guess I will see how I feel day by day with what I learn. I remember when we were kids we settled things after school without weapons. Is current society turning our kids into such cowards that they have to do things this extreme now?
freetown fred
 
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Re: Connecticut Shooting

PostBy: Rwalker On: Sun Dec 16, 2012 3:52 pm

Not coming from an armchair expert Fred, coming from my best friend who is a Sniper. He said the school drills are bullshit and the kids are sitting ducks. Cowering in the corner in the room? Dumb. The shooter gets in and has 20 kids to target. He said do not hunker down, run. Get the hell out of there by any means neccesary. Windows, vents, whatever it takes to exit the building, get the hell out and dont stop running.

That is exactly what I have told my children. Break a window and get out. Dont sit and wait to be killed. I dont think any of us, as adults, would just cower and be sitting ducks, so why should we expect our children to be?

Flyer, yes, keep her home. She is 5, what could she possibly miss that is that important? If you didnt, and something happened, how would you feel? The world is a dangerous place, and no I dont think our kids should be sheltered from it, but if I got a call about a possible threat I would be there getting my child immediately. Period.

It is amazing that the female principle attempted to charge the shooter. Amazing.
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Re: Connecticut Shooting

PostBy: Flyer5 On: Sun Dec 16, 2012 4:10 pm

Rwalker wrote:Not coming from an armchair expert Fred, coming from my best friend who is a Sniper. He said the school drills are bullshit and the kids are sitting ducks. Cowering in the corner in the room? Dumb. The shooter gets in and has 20 kids to target. He said do not hunker down, run. Get the hell out of there by any means neccesary. Windows, vents, whatever it takes to exit the building, get the hell out and dont stop running.

That is exactly what I have told my children. Break a window and get out. Dont sit and wait to be killed. I dont think any of us, as adults, would just cower and be sitting ducks, so why should we expect our children to be?

Flyer, yes, keep her home. She is 5, what could she possibly miss that is that important? If you didnt, and something happened, how would you feel? The world is a dangerous place, and no I dont think our kids should be sheltered from it, but if I got a call about a possible threat I would be there getting my child immediately. Period.

It is amazing that the female principle attempted to charge the shooter. Amazing.



My thought is they should have volunteers in the school either the principle or VP and some teachers to go for a Psych evaluation if found to be of sound mind, then given proper training and drills for concealed carry, and be allowed to carry. The one thing that is always the same in almost all incidents is the presumption of "it will never happen here". That principle there was very brave along with her co-workers instead of running away they ran to and payed for the boneheaded laws with their life. The gun restrictions are possibly responsible for some of the people murdered.
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Re: Connecticut Shooting

PostBy: Rwalker On: Sun Dec 16, 2012 4:30 pm

Code: Select all
That principle there was very brave along with her co-workers instead of running away they ran to and payed for the boneheaded laws with their life. The gun restrictions are possibly responsible for some of the people murdered.


But they at least did something. That takes guts. I reccomend everyone reading http://www.amazon.com/Deep-Survival-Who ... 0393326152. He talks about how some people freeze at the moment of impact and some react. How some fighter pilots coming into a landing on an aircraft carrier knowing they are too low, knowing they are gonna crash, cannot physically pull-up. They freeze. How snow mobilers saw an avalanche coming and half of them beat feet and half of them got crushed and killed.

Good book, as is: http://www.amazon.com/Gift-Fear-Gavin-B ... 0440226198.

When the *censored* hits the fan at work I see it, some people jump right into the fray damn the consequences and some cower in the corner. Human nature, but you can train yourself to react. I have never flown on an airplane. Not ONCE. But I have told my wife one day when we do, if 1 person gets up and is acting crazy I am tackling them and I am not going to stop punching until my arms fall off. Refuse to be a statistic.
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Re: Connecticut Shooting

PostBy: freetown fred On: Sun Dec 16, 2012 4:36 pm

Rw, my point being--demand a school board meeting & find out what the plan for a situation like this is. Take your thoughts, take your sniper friend, be heard. Follow through & have some sort of resolution over what is what. It does sadden me to hear of anyone thinking that the involved teachers had their kids cowering in a corner. I have never been, in person, to any of the school drills, what they cover, what they do, so I really can't speak on it. I doubt if cowering in a corner is part of it though.
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Re: Connecticut Shooting

PostBy: titleist1 On: Sun Dec 16, 2012 5:10 pm

The drills in our elem schools have the teachers lock down the classroom, turn out lights, and the rooms that have been renovated have a cement block wall that is a barrier from the doorway that the kids are to get behind. The teachers / workers are not to attempt to bring in kids from the hallways, just to secure their classrooms and wait for the police. from what i have read, this is basically what the librarian did at the school. their reasoning is they don't know how many perp's are involved or where they are in the school in such an event.

if it was my class and i was the teacher, i'd lock down the class and turn off the lights then i'd be breaking out a window and getting the kids out of there rather than waiting for the perp's to break into the room.
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Re: Connecticut Shooting

PostBy: freetown fred On: Sun Dec 16, 2012 5:23 pm

Sounds like an excellent plan. One question--if not sure how many perps are involved, what if one or two were outside the school??? I'd stay put myself. Just saying.
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Re: Connecticut Shooting

PostBy: Rwalker On: Sun Dec 16, 2012 6:08 pm

Fred-yes, the training videos they watch of actual shootings tell them and teach them to get their sudents in the room, lock the door, and wait for rescue. These teachers did what they were supposed to do. Kind of like the bomb drills we did as kids when we all got under our desks. School room doors should have slam locks that burry themselves 8" into the frame/wall and a window that pops out with the flip of a lever. Slam the lock, evac out the window. And practice it weekly. Keeping 20 kids in a classroom as a gunman roams the hallways is not smart. I have been in elementary schools often and I can tell you right now, not a single door is hard to get into. And filing cabinets? I could hit those doors at full force and be in in a matter of seconds. Schools are not as safe as everyone likes to think. Many have side access doors that are left unlocked and other points of entry. And hell, if that doesnt work, a SUV or pick-up at high speed will go through the front door nicely. Just ask the patrons at Luby's Diner.

On October 16, 1991, 35-year-old George "Jo Jo" Pierre Hennard, an unemployed merchant seaman[disambiguation needed] who was described by others as angry and withdrawn, with a dislike of women, drove his blue 1987 Ford Ranger pickup truck through the front window of a Luby's cafeteria at 1705 East Central Texas Expressway in Killeen. Yelling "This is what Bell County did to me!", Hennard then opened fire on its patrons and staff with a Glock 17 pistol and, later, a Ruger P89. He stalked, shot, and killed 23 people while wounding another 20 before committing suicide. At least 80 people were in the restaurant at the time.

The first victim was local veterinarian Michael Griffith, 48, who ran to the driver's side of the pickup truck to offer assistance to the driver after the truck crashed through the window. Hennard also approached 32-year-old Suzanna Hupp and her parents. Hupp reached for her .38 revolver in her purse, only to realize she had left it in her vehicle. Her father Al, 71, rushed at Hennard in an attempt to subdue him but was fatally shot in the chest. A short time later, as Hupp was escaping, her mother Ursula, 67, was shot in the head and killed as she cradled her wounded husband.

During the massacre, Hennard allowed a woman and her four-year-old child to leave. Another patron, Tommy Vaughn, threw himself through a plate-glass window, sustaining injuries, but by doing so he created an escape route for himself and other customers.

Hennard reloaded several times and still had ammunition remaining when he committed suicide by shooting himself in the head after exchanging shots with, and being wounded by a responding police officer.[2][3][4]
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