Connecticut Shooting

Re: Connecticut Shooting

PostBy: buffalo bob On: Mon Dec 17, 2012 11:13 am

Richard S. wrote:
Flyer5 wrote:It sounds counterproductive but the answer may be to get rid of gun free zones. I am not sure.


In the case of school you have a gun free zone inside the school itself. Who's to say some teacher or custodian isn't the next shooter?

then the only answer is to put armed police in schools and raise taxes a few mills to cover it...
buffalo bob
 
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Re: Connecticut Shooting

PostBy: SteveZee On: Mon Dec 17, 2012 11:13 am

freetown fred wrote:I remember my father telling me at a very early age that laws are for those that choose to obey them & locks keep honest people honest. I keep asking myself--if this mother knew her son was whacked, how could he possibly of gotten to those guns if she in fact had them in,persay, a gun safe---you don't get into them unless you know the combination.She had one handgun worth $600.00--I'm sure she could of afforded a secure storage system. I'm sorry, but I put this whole sad fiasco back on the home/ mother & ultimatly--one screwed up kid. No excuses are acceptable here.


Media says (for what that's worth) that she taught her son how to use these weapons and took him to the range for practice. Also that she was a bit of a prepper and that may explain why she did that?
SteveZee
 
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Re: Connecticut Shooting

PostBy: jpete On: Mon Dec 17, 2012 11:40 am

buffalo bob wrote:
Richard S. wrote:
Flyer5 wrote:It sounds counterproductive but the answer may be to get rid of gun free zones. I am not sure.


In the case of school you have a gun free zone inside the school itself. Who's to say some teacher or custodian isn't the next shooter?

then the only answer is to put armed police in schools and raise taxes a few mills to cover it...


Who's to say the cop isn't the next shooter? I won't quote an number because someone will challenge me but there are a number of people in emergency services either on drugs(prescribed or otherwise) for mental health issues and a few more that probably should be.

How about we try letting individuals defend themselves?
jpete
 
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Re: Connecticut Shooting

PostBy: Northern Maine On: Mon Dec 17, 2012 11:45 am

In the case of school you have a gun free zone inside the school itself. Who's to say some teacher or custodian isn't the next shooter?[/quote]
then the only answer is to put armed police in schools and raise taxes a few mills to cover it...[/quote]

Who's to say the cop isn't the next shooter? I won't quote an number because someone will challenge me but there are a number of people in emergency services either on drugs(prescribed or otherwise) for mental health issues and a few more that probably should be.

How about we try letting individuals defend themselves?[/quote]
Children defend themselves? Starting at what age?
Northern Maine
 
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Re: Connecticut Shooting

PostBy: Richard S. On: Mon Dec 17, 2012 11:50 am

buffalo bob wrote:
then the only answer is to put armed police in schools and raise taxes a few mills to cover it...


You don't necessarily even need armed guards, you might even be better off without them. The absolute key is having a weapons exclusion zone inside the campus, you separate the teachers and the students from access by the outside world and any weapons that can get in. For example if in this school Lanza had to approach an office building that was either connected to the school or even completely separate this incident doesn't occur, at most he might be able to shoot up the office. You don't give anyone the means to gain access to the main body of people in that school unless it's absolutely necessary. That would include teachers and staff that must pass through a metal detector.

There is no perfect solution and there is no way to absolutely prevent someone from killing a whole bunch of people but these schools need to do a better job of stopping these people at the front door so they can't get access to potentially hundreds of victims. My considerations about this go beyond the Lanza's of the world because there is more evil people out there that just the lunatics.
Richard S.
 
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Re: Connecticut Shooting

PostBy: Richard S. On: Mon Dec 17, 2012 11:53 am

jpete wrote:
Who's to say the cop isn't the next shooter?


There is no way to guarantee anything and as I said you might be better off without anyone armed. You do what you can and insuring there is as little access to multiple victims no matter who the person is should be a priority.
Richard S.
 
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Re: Connecticut Shooting

PostBy: jpete On: Mon Dec 17, 2012 12:12 pm

So now we have to take state education the final step and make them look and act like prisons too?

If that's where we are at, then we've failed as a culture.
jpete
 
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Re: Connecticut Shooting

PostBy: freetown fred On: Mon Dec 17, 2012 12:35 pm

Yes, it might. I think that the mental health issue is being beat to tears. I'm sure my saying that the mother in this case was totally negligent in way many ways & responsibility needs to be placed where it belongs is considered politically incorrect. I empathize with families that have these issues but also personally know that responsible people seek & find the assistance they need & do what they have to do no matter what. We have become a society entrenched in the blame game--the govt. this, mental health that--ownership of responsibility has been lost somewhere along the way.
SteveZee wrote:
freetown fred wrote:I remember my father telling me at a very early age that laws are for those that choose to obey them & locks keep honest people honest. I keep asking myself--if this mother knew her son was whacked, how could he possibly of gotten to those guns if she in fact had them in,persay, a gun safe---you don't get into them unless you know the combination.She had one handgun worth $600.00--I'm sure she could of afforded a secure storage system. I'm sorry, but I put this whole sad fiasco back on the home/ mother & ultimatly--one screwed up kid. No excuses are acceptable here.


Media says (for what that's worth) that she taught her son how to use these weapons and took him to the range for practice. Also that she was a bit of a prepper and that may explain why she did that?
freetown fred
 
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Re: Connecticut Shooting

PostBy: Richard S. On: Mon Dec 17, 2012 12:58 pm

jpete wrote:So now we have to take state education the final step and make them look and act like prisons too?


Unfortunately Jpete I think that is the point we are at guns or no guns. I'd have to agree 100% with Obama that job #1 is our children, now I may not agree with his solutions but he's absolutely correct in that we need to protect them and make that priority number 1. Schools are just far too easy a target to avoid the realities of the lunatics in out society.
Richard S.
 
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Re: Connecticut Shooting

PostBy: Flyer5 On: Mon Dec 17, 2012 1:18 pm

buffalo bob wrote:
Richard S. wrote:
Flyer5 wrote:It sounds counterproductive but the answer may be to get rid of gun free zones. I am not sure.


In the case of school you have a gun free zone inside the school itself. Who's to say some teacher or custodian isn't the next shooter?

then the only answer is to put armed police in schools and raise taxes a few mills to cover it...



So is a few mills worth a life if it were effective in stopping even one person from dying. I would gladly pay it, The government wastes my money on a study to find out if a bugs ass smells . At least spending it on keeping the kids safe I would accept. Besides I was not implying armed guards. I was stating gun free zones may be a problem because the only person with a gun in a gun free zone is the criminal at least till the police arrive.
Flyer5
 
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Re: Connecticut Shooting

PostBy: KLook On: Mon Dec 17, 2012 1:26 pm

All the solutions posted are useless. There are no solutions. He was very intelligent. He could have stolen a plane and flown it into the school. He could have waited for the right moment and run over 20 kids with his mothers car. He could have gone in with an axe or machete and really horrified them. He could have poisoned the water. It all comes under, "We have to do something!" We cannot afford to build fortresses. we cannot afford to hire armed guards for all schools. Teachers are people to and cannot be trusted anymore then anyone else. It is odd to me that there is such a outbreak of these things after the election is over and the O has 4 years to work on bans.
Tragic as these scenarios are, the greater good for society is to have armed citizens everywhere. BUT is that also admitting we have failed as a culture? Have we really changed at all? And don't go all Euro on me, I am sick of hearing how great things are in Europe. They are about to face their own problems with immigrants and guns will be a factor.
And Sam, if mental hospitals were so great, they wouldn't make movies about the abuse in them. Mentally ill PEOPLE and mentally ill PEOPLE taking care of them. And at what cost?

And Lieberman just said the magic words. If one child is saved it is worth it. I am sorry, but no it isn't. Obama has killed scores of children with his Predator strikes but that is ok, it is over the hill and far away. Children grow up to be killers as well as productive people. Why do people care so much when pretty talented girls kill themselves(Whitney Houston) but don't give a second glance when some fat, homely girl does it from bullying? The problem is US and our perceptions and they ain't changing anytime soon. Just knee jerk, feel good crap to herd us towards our utopian society envisioned by Diane Feinstein and such social geniuses. Lets just have a few more bills that we have to vote for to find out what is in them and all will be solved. Yeah, she is a genius also.

Kevin

I exhibited many of the things pointed out about kids with these afflictions and feel strongly that I have ADHD. Yet I have worked, raised a family, coached, served on boards and committee's, and generally been productive. I think back to the anger I exploded with as a kid, and wonder if it could have been me. I always said they would have had me on Ritalin if it had been available back then. I have been tested to have very low empathy even now. Something necessary I think to rage against innocent people like this guy. Yet, I identify with the sheepdog and have proven it in tense emergency situations. I run towards the gunfire immediately.
So, who is to define the illness at that age? What is the cure? For me it was sports, but not all can play a game well enough to enjoy it. And then there is the teasing if you suck at it. Human nature again. Can't fix that.

Sorry for the long rant,

Kevin
KLook
 
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Re: Connecticut Shooting

PostBy: EarthWindandFire On: Mon Dec 17, 2012 1:47 pm

They should allow the school Principal to carry a licensed gun, even if locked in cabinet. The expenses for shooting range and one-on-one training by local police (of the school principal) paid at taxpayers expense of course.

Sheriff Andy Taylor did it this way in Mayberry for those of us old enough to remember. Andy never carried a gun, they were locked in the gun cabinet.
EarthWindandFire
 
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Re: Connecticut Shooting

PostBy: samhill On: Mon Dec 17, 2012 2:03 pm

Klook, what do you suggest, we have hospitals that have special wards for mentally ill but not really that effective or long term. They also make movies about many things in everyday life, they have special burn hospitals, children's, cancer & you get the drift. Not saying there is any one single answer but it's something that used to be & there are those that will abuse people in all walks of life, elderly & veterans alike, should we close all because of a few? Or do we just have one walley world place where one stop takes care of all, they could even offer drive by or ah through counseling.
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Re: Connecticut Shooting

PostBy: plumb-r On: Mon Dec 17, 2012 2:08 pm

It's a sad world we live in. Why are these cowards going after children? In China a man with a knife went into a school yard on friday and injured 22 children and one adult. :mad: News is sketchy coming out of China. Guns,knives,doesn't matter, crazy is crazy. :(
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Re: Connecticut Shooting

PostBy: Berlin On: Mon Dec 17, 2012 3:15 pm

KLook wrote:All the solutions posted are useless. There are no solutions. He was very intelligent. He could have stolen a plane and flown it into the school. He could have waited for the right moment and run over 20 kids with his mothers car. He could have gone in with an axe or machete and really horrified them. He could have poisoned the water. It all comes under, "We have to do something!" We cannot afford to build fortresses. we cannot afford to hire armed guards for all schools. Teachers are people to and cannot be trusted anymore then anyone else. It is odd to me that there is such a outbreak of these things after the election is over and the O has 4 years to work on bans.
Tragic as these scenarios are, the greater good for society is to have armed citizens everywhere. BUT is that also admitting we have failed as a culture? Have we really changed at all? And don't go all Euro on me, I am sick of hearing how great things are in Europe. They are about to face their own problems with immigrants and guns will be a factor.
And Sam, if mental hospitals were so great, they wouldn't make movies about the abuse in them. Mentally ill PEOPLE and mentally ill PEOPLE taking care of them. And at what cost?

And Lieberman just said the magic words. If one child is saved it is worth it. I am sorry, but no it isn't. Obama has killed scores of children with his Predator strikes but that is ok, it is over the hill and far away. Children grow up to be killers as well as productive people. Why do people care so much when pretty talented girls kill themselves(Whitney Houston) but don't give a second glance when some fat, homely girl does it from bullying? The problem is US and our perceptions and they ain't changing anytime soon. Just knee jerk, feel good crap to herd us towards our utopian society envisioned by Diane Feinstein and such social geniuses. Lets just have a few more bills that we have to vote for to find out what is in them and all will be solved. Yeah, she is a genius also.

Kevin

I exhibited many of the things pointed out about kids with these afflictions and feel strongly that I have ADHD. Yet I have worked, raised a family, coached, served on boards and committee's, and generally been productive. I think back to the anger I exploded with as a kid, and wonder if it could have been me. I always said they would have had me on Ritalin if it had been available back then. I have been tested to have very low empathy even now. Something necessary I think to rage against innocent people like this guy. Yet, I identify with the sheepdog and have proven it in tense emergency situations. I run towards the gunfire immediately.
So, who is to define the illness at that age? What is the cure? For me it was sports, but not all can play a game well enough to enjoy it. And then there is the teasing if you suck at it. Human nature again. Can't fix that.

Sorry for the long rant,

Kevin


well said.

Schools like prisons and money down a bottomless pit "for the children" and then tragedy strikes again. When is the human animal going to understand that every action isn't preventable and every fix isn't final? I don't understand the irrational fear of allowing our educators (you know, the ones that we trust with our precious children EVERY DAY) to be armed. It's this irrational fear that leads to more false solutions, it demonstrates a fundamental misunderstanding of human nature and it is so very pervasive.
Berlin
 
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