Get ready - after CT, here comes gun control ....

Re: Get ready - after CT, here comes gun control ....

PostBy: Black_And_Blue On: Sat Dec 15, 2012 11:24 am

lsayre wrote:Could endless hours playing computer games the likes of Quake and its ilk be behind tragedies like this?


Ultimately the search for an answer leads to control, so how do you stop free will?
Black_And_Blue
 
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Re: Get ready - after CT, here comes gun control ....

PostBy: Poconoeagle On: Sat Dec 15, 2012 11:27 am

you cant stop free will....you can groom children to have good will. instead of bad will
Poconoeagle
 
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Re: Get ready - after CT, here comes gun control ....

PostBy: titleist1 On: Sat Dec 15, 2012 11:41 am

someone had mentioned about going back into a situation like the mall or school shooting once their family was safely out ( i forget who it was to give credit) and i probably would do the same, but it got me thinking...

law enforcement is now trained to enter right away upon arriving a the scene to eliminate the threat rather than waiting to set up command posts & such as they once did...

if there are some citizens who went back in to get the shooter(s) and they themselves are armed, i am wondering how law enforcement and actually how each of those citizens would avoid mistakenly shooting of one of the other citizens? This guy in CT had handguns so it isn't like you'd recognize him by the assault rifle he was carrying...

if we do have some people able to carry in schools or malls then i would also provide them with vests they could put on during such an event so that eliminates that as a possible identifier also....

military identifies this as one of the biggest challenges when dealing with terrorists in civilian populations...any ideas on how to address this?
titleist1
 
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Re: Get ready - after CT, here comes gun control ....

PostBy: franco b On: Sat Dec 15, 2012 11:50 am

The major cities and especially NYC are chock full of crazies. Carrying a gun your chances of being shot by the police, who have their own share of cowboys, are probably much higher than being shot by a criminal. The cities are a special case as opposed to suburban and rural areas.

Years ago NYC was a safer place with a police force half of what it now is. There has to be a reason for that, and as several posters have said, it is the change in social expectations that I think is the problem.
franco b
 
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Re: Get ready - after CT, here comes gun control ....

PostBy: lsayre On: Sat Dec 15, 2012 12:20 pm

Poconoeagle wrote:you cant stop free will....you can groom children to have good will. instead of bad will


Excellent answer!
lsayre
 
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Re: Get ready - after CT, here comes gun control ....

PostBy: homecomfort On: Sat Dec 15, 2012 12:31 pm

Freddy wrote:I see Obama said something to the effect of "It's time to make sure this doesn't happen again". I think most will hear this as "Tighter gun controls". I'd prefer to hear it as "It's time to allow praying in school". I'll bet we see tighter gun laws before we see the real answer occur.... teach our children right from wrong.

My heart aches for all those touched by this awful thing.

and this mass murderer had a Mother who Was a Teacher. so what is the answer?
homecomfort
 
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Re: Get ready - after CT, here comes gun control ....

PostBy: lsayre On: Sat Dec 15, 2012 12:40 pm

homecomfort wrote:and this mass murderer had a Mother who Was a Teacher. so what is the answer?


The same as for any parent, teach proper values and morals. The problem here might just be that government controlled schools and the teachers drawn to them both reject the values and morals of generations past (pre government sponsored education).
lsayre
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: AHS S130 Coal Gun
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Re: Get ready - after CT, here comes gun control ....

PostBy: Rwalker On: Sat Dec 15, 2012 2:11 pm

titleist1 wrote:someone had mentioned about going back into a situation like the mall or school shooting once their family was safely out ( i forget who it was to give credit) and i probably would do the same, but it got me thinking...

law enforcement is now trained to enter right away upon arriving a the scene to eliminate the threat rather than waiting to set up command posts & such as they once did...

if there are some citizens who went back in to get the shooter(s) and they themselves are armed, i am wondering how law enforcement and actually how each of those citizens would avoid mistakenly shooting of one of the other citizens? This guy in CT had handguns so it isn't like you'd recognize him by the assault rifle he was carrying...

if we do have some people able to carry in schools or malls then i would also provide them with vests they could put on during such an event so that eliminates that as a possible identifier also....

military identifies this as one of the biggest challenges when dealing with terrorists in civilian populations...any ideas on how to address this?


That was me. How we have planned it, as I have said, this stuff keeps me up at night, is once my family is out my wife is to dial 911 and let them know that I am a CCW and I am in the mall, what I look like, etc. My weapon stays holstered until I have made contact with the threat. Where it plays out from there, who knows.

I watched something on TV once about a guy who was a CCW going after the active shooter. He actually linked up with the cops and aided them in surrounding the guy. He ultimately shot himself before they could get him.

I think in this case it would have been easy for the police to recognize the shooter-dressed in black and firing 2 handguns versus a regularly dressed dude not actively shooting. I would fully expect to be confronted, told to drop my gun, and detained until they realized that I neutralized the threat. The same is true in prison hostage situations. Our guys go in balls to the wall, stun grenades, MP5s, smoke bombs, etc. Everyone, inmate or hostage, comes out with their hands zip tied and beat up pretty good. They cant take the chance that a wolf is hiding in the sheeps clothing. They are fast, react swiftly, and do a lot of damage in the process. However, it saves lives. We are told if we are ever in a hostage situation and the team enters, hit the deck and stay there and be prepared to be roughed up a little bit until the threat has been neutralized.

If in that situation I was approached by the police I would put down my gun, put my hands up, identify myself and tell them that I was acively pursuing the shooter. My guess is the shooter would still be shooting, so it would be easy enough to tell that I was helping not hurting. Plus the wife calling 911 to let them know would help as well.

It is a split second decision that you have to make. I heard an ER surgeon once say that potential emergency situations keep him up at night, thinking exactly what he would do and how he would do it. That is me when it comes to the safety of my family. We have evac plans for a fire, for the CO detector, and for an intruder. The same should be true when you are out in the public. You should have a plan and practice it and stick to it.
Rwalker
 
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Re: Get ready - after CT, here comes gun control ....

PostBy: titleist1 On: Sat Dec 15, 2012 2:52 pm

good plan with the wife calling 911 with the description, although i am sure you know that info may not filter to the first responders. also with you going back in the side door and me going in the back door and each not knowing the other or getting the 911 provided description...well i won't hold it against you if you wing me, please aim for my right leg since i already have a slight limp some days and rain related pain in that one! maybe we need to always wear our coal forum member hats as an identifier to each other :D

I agree that it is a good idea to go back in if you are armed and willing, but everyone (you probably already accept this risk) needs to be ready to accept a mistake or two in the process of taking out the threat. military operations that are planned and coordinated to the nth degree and only involve highly trained individuals have friendly fire casualties frequently, think Pat Tilghman. These kind of situations that are not planned or coordinated and don't have a trained team are even more likely to have that occur. I happen to think it is worth the risk and possible price if it has a chance in getting the bad guy(s) before he/they kill a dozen more kids than they already got - maybe even to the point of not prosecuting the one that made the mistake whether law enforcement or civilian.

btw...if i am going back in there to face somebody that is actively shooting i will have my weapon out.
titleist1
 
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Re: Get ready - after CT, here comes gun control ....

PostBy: SteveZee On: Sat Dec 15, 2012 3:15 pm

Ted Nugent? Really? I wouldn't be holding this guy up as an example of anything but a pants crapping draft dodger, which by his own admission, is exactly what he is. Check out his interview.
http://www.snopes.com/politics/military/nugent.asp
SteveZee
 
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Re: Get ready - after CT, here comes gun control ....

PostBy: Richard S. On: Sat Dec 15, 2012 3:26 pm

Lanza tried to buy firearms days before the shooting and was denied....
http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2012/12 ... oting?lite

Adam Lanza, 20, went to a Dick's Sporting Goods store in Danbury, Conn., on Tuesday to buy the weapon, but was turned down because he didn't want to undergo a background check or abide by the state's waiting period for gun sales, the officials said.
Richard S.
 
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Re: Get ready - after CT, here comes gun control ....

PostBy: Rick 386 On: Sat Dec 15, 2012 3:58 pm

Richard S. wrote:Lanza tried to buy firearms days before the shooting and was denied....
http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2012/12 ... oting?lite

Adam Lanza, 20, went to a Dick's Sporting Goods store in Danbury, Conn., on Tuesday to buy the weapon, but was turned down because he didn't want to undergo a background check or abide by the state's waiting period for gun sales, the officials said.




Exactly !!! Saw on one of the news stations that CT already has in place some of the tougher laws for buying weapons.

It has been mentioned on here that partents need to keep their weapons locked up. C'mon this nut case was 20 years old. Since he was about 14 my stepson has had access to the gun cabinet. First it was so he could access my guns if needed and secondly, that was where his were kept. He now has his own cabinet at his own house. As is mentioned time after time, IF someone wants to get a gun, they will. Either from their home, the neighbors, or on the street. If they are so hell bent on destruction, there is not much anyone can do about it EXCEPT neutralize it as soon as it is happening.

One of the biggest pieces of drivel was on CNN last night on the Piers Brosnan (sp?) show. That limey piece of crap is so dead set against guns, no one can say anything against his views before he cuts them off. So much for having an open mind as a journalist. I was almost half tempted to shoot the TV last night !!!!!!!!





Rick
Rick 386
 
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Re: Get ready - after CT, here comes gun control ....

PostBy: SteveZee On: Sat Dec 15, 2012 4:31 pm

Piers Morgan. Yeah agreed he's full of himself.
SteveZee
 
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Re: Get ready - after CT, here comes gun control ....

PostBy: samhill On: Sat Dec 15, 2012 5:02 pm

When Morgan had Nugent on he didn't cut him off, let him speak his piece. I hate Nugent but he made some good points, if you want to talk about a coward that's him. Draft dodging slug, at a concert I worked he was playing with Damn Yankees (I think), he started running his mouth about the war & he & another V.N. Vet got into it a little bit so he took off running like a little school kid. He then demanded that they fire the Vet, the promoter told him that he hires nothing but Vets & if he didn't like it he was free to leave. Then a few years back one of my x brother-in-laws had a funeral for his wife that as my b-in-l were both Arizona State Police, his wife was shot in the head by her son. In walks Ted Nugent to pay his respects (but never even looked in the viewing room) & he starting spouting his gun rights stuff there & was quietly as possible asked to leave, what a douche bag.
samhill
 
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Re: Get ready - after CT, here comes gun control ....

PostBy: grumpy On: Sat Dec 15, 2012 5:22 pm

Wow, I have never seen this side of him, really, I thought he was very down to earth and I did spend much time talking to him one on one.. :shock:
grumpy