Is the Father revealed by Jesus the God of the Old Testament

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Re: Is the Father revealed by Jesus the God of the Old Testament

PostBy: Northern Maine On: Wed Dec 19, 2012 4:06 pm

De Waal contends that all social animals have had to restrain or alter their behavior for group living to be worthwhile. Pre-moral sentiments evolved in primate societies as a method of restraining individual selfishness and building more cooperative groups. For any social species, the benefits of being part of an altruistic group should outweigh the benefits of individualism. For example, lack of group cohesion could make individuals more vulnerable to attack from outsiders. Being part of a group may also improve the chances of finding food. This is evident among animals that hunt in packs to take down large or dangerous prey.
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Re: Is the Father revealed by Jesus the God of the Old Testament

PostBy: franco b On: Wed Dec 19, 2012 5:09 pm

Northern Maine wrote: For any social species, the benefits of being part of an altruistic group should outweigh the benefits of individualism.

I can agree with the previous post except for the above quote which is absurd. Without individualism we would not have evolved into human beings to begin with and as human beings we owe our technological advances to individuals who very often went against the grain of their societies.

Social cohesiveness is fine, but like all good ideas can be carried to an extreme that can destroy that which it sets out to nurture.

As King Arthur lay dying he said the following to Sir Bedivere " The old order changeth yielding place to new, and God fulfills Himself in many ways, lest one good custom should corrupt the world. (Tennyson)
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Re: Is the Father revealed by Jesus the God of the Old Testament

PostBy: rberq On: Wed Dec 19, 2012 7:57 pm

KLook wrote:That problem will never be solved. As fast as there is a vacuum another religion rushes in to fill it. All the good ones promise things unattainable on earth. Eternal life. It is amusing, I guess, how many times my morals have been questioned when it is discovered I don't believe. Like I don't have a track record in a small community in Maine. Almost all my best friends are what I would call ultra religious, and they say that my actions show that god has a plan for me and he has just not revealed himself or it yet. Amazing! Many people are so blinded by god they don't see the machine running the show. Social engineering and a for profit business.

Kevin

Well, that post went over like a lead balloon! No one even acknowledged it! :lol: It's why I try (but don't always succeed) not to argue religion -- believers are impervious to reason. I said once on this forum that strong religious faith is prima facie evidence of mental defect. My remark was not well received. :P

Religious scholars expend huge effort organizing all their bits and pieces into a coherent whole that sticks together within itself, as long as its underlying assumptions are not questioned. In much the same way, astronomers once organized all their observations into a coherent explanation of how the sun and planets and all the stars revolve around a stationary earth. Spheres within spheres, planets attached to circles attached to circles attached to more circles.... It all DID fit together, but it was flat wrong.
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Re: Is the Father revealed by Jesus the God of the Old Testament

PostBy: franco b On: Wed Dec 19, 2012 9:24 pm

rberq wrote: I said once on this forum that strong religious faith is prima facie evidence of mental defect. My remark was not well received.

So you say it again? :?
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Re: Is the Father revealed by Jesus the God of the Old Testament

PostBy: BillMarti On: Fri Dec 28, 2012 2:33 pm

rberq wrote: I said once on this forum that strong religious faith is prima facie evidence of mental defect. My remark was not well received.

I guess we'll have to wait and see who's name he calls out when he draws his last breath? We all will in the end.

I believe God is quite capable of preserving His word despite mans constant tampering with it such as the catholic church, TV preachers, bible translators and mega Church's do.
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Re: Is the Father revealed by Jesus the God of the Old Testament

PostBy: KLook On: Fri Dec 28, 2012 2:46 pm

I guess we'll have to wait and see who's name he calls out when he draws his last breath? We all will in the end.


He will and we all will certainly draw a last breath. Unless the death is catastrophic in nature. But calling out any gods name is debatable. Personally, I would be confused as to which one to blurt out for fear of getting in wrong. Silence is golden. ;)

Kevin

Probably would have been a good idea to adhere to that little gem instead of posting in here many times. :oops:
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Re: Is the Father revealed by Jesus the God of the Old Testament

PostBy: BillMarti On: Fri Dec 28, 2012 10:08 pm

KLook wrote:
I guess we'll have to wait and see who's name he calls out when he draws his last breath? We all will in the end.


He will and we all will certainly draw a last breath. Unless the death is catastrophic in nature. But calling out any gods name is debatable. Personally, I would be confused as to which one to blurt out for fear of getting in wrong. Silence is golden. ;)

Kevin

Probably would have been a good idea to adhere to that little gem instead of posting in here many times. :oops:

At this point you need not worry about calling out to the wrong one because it's a gimme you'll call on the wrong one and even if you did call on the right one it'll be to late. John 3:3,5,7,17-21. These are not my words but Gods.
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Re: Is the Father revealed by Jesus the God of the Old Testament

PostBy: lsayre On: Fri Dec 28, 2012 10:31 pm

The Marcionites rejected the Gospel of John, which appears (from its content) that it may have Gnostic origins. That plus the very first person to write a commentary on the Gospel of John (in about 170 AD) was the Gnostic Heracleon, and as one might guess, he interpreted it rather strongly from a Gnostic perspective.

The Pseudo-Pauline letters of Timothy and Titus were not part of the Marcionite corpus, and they appear to be much later Catholic additions. They are the most pro-Orthodox and anti-Marcionite of the Pauline letters. They are almost universally accepted as later additions.
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Re: Is the Father revealed by Jesus the God of the Old Testament

PostBy: KLook On: Fri Dec 28, 2012 11:10 pm

At this point you need not worry about calling out to the wrong one because it's a gimme you'll call on the wrong one and even if you did call on the right one it'll be to late.
John 3:3,5,7,17-21. These are not my words but Gods.


At this point I will classify you as an odd bitter little religious zealot. You lash out at people in a public forum and can't take a different point of view. This is not the place for your narrow minded preaching. The words are written by men far in the past and in languages you and I cannot comprehend. They have been interpreted,bastardized, manipulated and corrupted to better enslave mankind. You as much as many twist and abuse them for your benefit. It is fine with me that many choose to believe in something greater then mankind. I also hope it is true. But you absolutely typify why I will not attend, fund, or support some construct of man called organized religion.

if you did call on the right one it'll be to late.


IT is never to late according to you lame brains. Just accept the Lord and all is well.

Kevin
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Re: Is the Father revealed by Jesus the God of the Old Testament

PostBy: Freddy On: Sat Dec 29, 2012 7:58 am

KLook wrote: I would be confused as to which one to blurt out for fear of getting in wrong.


Look! Freddy is in a religious discussion! And what I have to say:

No worries about getting His name wrong. There is only ONE God. I believe He (She?) sits in a house of many windows. Each religion, for human reasons, chooses to see him through a different window and even call Him by different names. Some religions get all fanatic and claim their window is the only correct one. Hogwash I say! Any window will do. Even no window might do. For those that choose to not look in any of the windows, or even look in that direction, if they live their life with generosity, dignity and care, I think all is good.
Also, I believe many humans get confused a bit on God's role here on Earth. We are not puppets of his that He plays with. He gave us free will and WE decide how to use it. Do we honor Him by living with honesty and grace? Do we dishonor Him by doing evil? It is our choice. People say "Why did God make that happen?" I believe He did not "make that happen". God does not make anything happen, but, He does allow all to happen.
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Re: Is the Father revealed by Jesus the God of the Old Testament

PostBy: lsayre On: Sat Dec 29, 2012 8:14 am

Well stated Freddy!
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Re: Is the Father revealed by Jesus the God of the Old Testament

PostBy: KLook On: Sat Dec 29, 2012 8:18 am

As usual Freddy, well thought out and stated. Nice!

Kevin
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Re: Is the Father revealed by Jesus the God of the Old Testament

PostBy: freetown fred On: Sat Dec 29, 2012 8:21 am

So one could do well beleiving in something greater the one's self. Ego's & self will run riot have played a real large part in getting this Country in the position it is in today.
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Re: Is the Father revealed by Jesus the God of the Old Testament

PostBy: KLook On: Sat Dec 29, 2012 8:27 am

So one could do well beleiving in something greater the one's self. Ego's & self will run riot have played a real large part in getting this Country in the position it is in today.


Well Fred, there is plenty of that to go around no matter the organization or its core beliefs. Humans are involved after all. As a religious friend stated, "Church would be a great place if it weren't for the people in it!"

Kevin
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Re: Is the Father revealed by Jesus the God of the Old Testament

PostBy: freetown fred On: Sat Dec 29, 2012 8:41 am

Personally, I never, never, ever confuse my spirituality with organized religion. Hmmmm, the Creator being a woman??? I might be screwed ;)
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