Shootings and where the problem begins

Re: Shootings and where the problem begins

PostBy: freetown fred On: Tue Dec 18, 2012 7:19 am

Dave, my biggest fear is listening to that sissy ass, dumb SOB BLOOMERBERG down in NYC. It was just the times I guess back when, but I'm glad nothing I own is on the radar except my 9 mm
freetown fred
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: HITZER 50-93
Coal Size/Type: BLASCHAK Nut/Stove mix

Re: Shootings and where the problem begins

PostBy: Flyer5 On: Tue Dec 18, 2012 7:33 am

freetown fred wrote:Dave, my biggest fear is listening to that sissy ass, dumb SOB BLOOMERBERG down in NYC. It was just the times I guess back when, but I'm glad nothing I own is on the radar except my 9 mm



Don't get me wrong I would give all my guns, ammo everything if I thought it had a chance to bring one of those kids back. Heck I would gladly take the place of all those kids if it would bring them back. The people in charge use this as an excuse to get the votes from people with HC's point of view . Everyone is entitled to their own view but using this tragedy and others to take away my rights is getting old. You hear nothing about the Oregon mall shooting because it was 2 people not 50 like it could have been if a law abiding citizen was not there with a firearm of his own.
Flyer5
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Leisure Line WL110
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: Leisure Line Pioneer

Re: Shootings and where the problem begins

PostBy: coalkirk On: Tue Dec 18, 2012 8:22 am

Rwalker wrote:
Great post. Could not agree more about the role two parents play in a childs life. Gotta tell you though that I don't feel so good about the "Daddy's pow-pow on the night stand" aspect of your post. I am sure your children are like most in that while they know right from wrong, eventually the lure of that forbidden device will be too much to resist. The gun should be safely stored where kids cannot access it. That is the only kind of gun control I believe in. Well that and hitting your target.


Accidents happen when you hide your weapons from your children and they find them, not knowing what they are, and get excited and BAM, someone gets killed. My 8 year old has his own cricket .22.

As my best friend says, who is a sniper for the state police, a locked gun does you no good. The 3 criminals that just kicked your door in arent going to wait for you to unlock your weapon. Sorry, my .45 is always at the ready. All I have to do it pull the action back and squeeze the trigger 7 times. When I am out and carrying concealed, I carry with a live round in the chamber. You might have .01 seconds to react. That is enough time to pop the safety and squeeze the trigger.

My kids have been around guns and know the difference. I am confident when I lay down at night with my trusty .45 beside me that my kids will get no where near it. Even if they did, a 3 year old couldnt even come close to pulling the action back on my .45, taking off the safety, or pulling the trigger. My wife barely can.

You do what you do in your house, in my house, my go to weapon is at the ready.


Obviously we all have to make our own decisions on how and where we store our guns. I'm a very firm believer in not storing them so that children can access them. And I don't mean hiding them, I mean securing them properly. With children in the house, I think anything less is irresponsible. This recent shooting and the colorado movie shooting were both carried out by someone who accessed guns that did not belong to them.

If I lived in a high crime area, or was a drug dealer, etc. my guns would probably be out on the night stand. Instead my .40 cal is in a hand gun safe in the top draw of the night stand. It is a push button type that I can open in the dark within about 3 seconds. I have practiced it many times without even looking at it. I've got two mouthy security systems that will alert me well before someone could be within 3 seconds of the bedroom.

I can't imagine how it would feel to know a child has shot himself or someone else accidentially with a gun that was left accessible.
coalkirk
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Harman VF3000
Coal Size/Type: antrhcite/rice coal


Re: Shootings and where the problem begins

PostBy: Rwalker On: Tue Dec 18, 2012 7:40 pm

I'm sorry (and no I don't know you personally ) but since you're spouting off about parenting and the virtues of virtual killing (at this time of year) yes maybe you are violent? You certainly profess to be quite capable of it? Look at your signature line! Your praying to the lord for the ability to kill someone! Come on, of all the things someone might actually pray for (and have it in a signature line for the world to see) that would be letting the world know what a bad ass you feel you are. Maybe it's paranoia that drives this but you put it out there that you're a cowboy who is unwilling to leave it to "The Professionals" and look to me like an accident waiting to happen.

There is nothing in the world you can say that will convince me that it's responsible parenting to give a .22 to an 8 year old and have unfettered access to weapons in your house. Your own words "I know they would never go near it" is unrealistic and naive. I truly hope that you never have to go through that pain and loss that could have been preventable. But again, as you stated to others, "that's on you".
I'm sure you are a great Dad and it sounds like you've got exceptional children. This is just where we differ and I only wish you are yours the best that life has to offer.


Sorry, I was at work around violence all day, so I am just getting to this now. I do have violence in me. Everyone does. Try to harm one of my kids or my wife and I will show you just how much violence I am capable of. That isn't "trying to be a bad-ass" that is the truth. Plain and simple. I am absolutely unwilling to leave it to the professionals. You kick in my front door, you are getting shot. Period. No questions asked and the signs around my house make that well known. You attempt to cause my family or me harm outside of my home, you are getting shot. Period. I refuse to be a victim and I carry my concealed weapon everywhere. As does the wife. An accident waiting to happen? That is the sheeple that walk around with their heads in the sand thinking the world is full of butterflies and candy canes. I hope that works for you. That doesnt work for me. I protect mine.

You should spend a day in my shoes surrounded by 2500 of the finest residents of the state. Sit a desk distance away from an 18 year old kid who knocked on a door and when the man answered, him and his buddy beat him to death for his TV, wallet, and computer. Counsel the 21 year old who felt like hurting someone so he went outside and attacked the first female that walked by. After raping her and slamming her head off the sidewalk until it was mush, he left her and went back to partying with his friends and laughed and joked about how "he might of just killed someone!". Sit a desk distance away from a 35 year old man who raped an 87 year old woman after breaking into her house and taking $3. That isn't paranoia, that is real. Evil is all around you. You have 2 choices, victim or survivor.

I am not sure how you grew up, but at age 8 I was driving tractors with wood blocks tied onto the pedals so I could reach them, hauling a wagon full of hay. I was riding my 10 speed to the neighbors farm to hook milkers on 100 head at 3 am with nothing but a flash light tied to my handlebars. My dad used to tie the seat of the lawnmower down because you had to weigh a certain amount to run it just so I could mow the lawn. Keep in mind, if I fell off or tipped over with the seat tied down, the blade would not stop turning. By 10 I was driving the old Dodge farm truck all over our 100 acres. I had a 20 guage and a .30.30 in a gun rack in my bedroom with the rounds to go with it. My step-father probably has 100 guns, and I had access to all of them. No one ever got shot. No one even came close. Difference in upbringings I guess. That is why I call today the Pussification of America!

So you attack me because I place my .45 on the night stand at night, yet you have no idea where the rest of my guns, or my .45 is, when I am at work? Of course my weapons are secured. I wont say how because that is none of your damn business, but I will say you would never find them if you looked. My "safe" is pretty neat and is actually completely hidden. At night, my .45 is near me at all times. I cant carry at work and I cant even have it in my car, so it is secure to where only the wife can get to it. Not that she needs it, her .380 is on her at all times, even while she is doing housework. My son has his .22, but did I say he had the rounds for it? Nope. You assumed. That's ok, I understand the thought process of the sheep. I have the rounds. And I would be willing to bet, at age 8, he could out shoot most on this forum. He got that .22 when he was 5! Am I affraid that one of my kids is going to come into my bedroom, in the middle of the night, grab my .45 in the dark, figure out how to take the safety off and rack and round, then shoot themselves or me? No. Not at all. They would have to make it past the 5 motion detectors to even get from their bedrooms to my bedroom.

Thanks for the well wishes, and same to you. For us, the best life has to offer is a 6 pound large mouth on the end of the line or a 10 pound channel cat ripping drag, camping out under the stars in the middle of nowhere, and skinning and eating all the earth has to offer us!

Obviously we all have to make our own decisions on how and where we store our guns. I'm a very firm believer in not storing them so that children can access them. And I don't mean hiding them, I mean securing them properly. With children in the house, I think anything less is irresponsible. This recent shooting and the colorado movie shooting were both carried out by someone who accessed guns that did not belong to them.

If I lived in a high crime area, or was a drug dealer, etc. my guns would probably be out on the night stand. Instead my .40 cal is in a hand gun safe in the top draw of the night stand. It is a push button type that I can open in the dark within about 3 seconds. I have practiced it many times without even looking at it. I've got two mouthy security systems that will alert me well before someone could be within 3 seconds of the bedroom.

I can't imagine how it would feel to know a child has shot himself or someone else accidentially with a gun that was left accessible.


Again, my .45 on the night stand beside me is not where children have access to it. I stated why above.

6 of us were raised with over 100 guns and ammo all around us and no one ever got shot. Of course, my step-father had us all shooting at an early age and we understood the power of the gun, how it wasnt a toy, and that is meant business. None of us touched our weapons that we all had hanging in gun racks without dad's permission and supervision.
Rwalker
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Hitzer
Stove/Furnace Model: 983

Re: Shootings and where the problem begins

PostBy: Yanche On: Tue Dec 18, 2012 11:42 pm

Rwalker, what would you do differently if one of your children had some of the symptoms being attributed to the CT shooter, or a medically diagnosed mental disorder being treated with medication?
Yanche
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Alternate Heating Systems S-130
Coal Size/Type: Anthracite Pea

Re: Shootings and where the problem begins

PostBy: jpete On: Tue Dec 18, 2012 11:53 pm

Yanche wrote:Rwalker, what would you do differently if one of your children had some of the symptoms being attributed to the CT shooter, or a medically diagnosed mental disorder being treated with medication?


Neither of which the shooter had but, please, continue...

http://nation.foxnews.com/adam-lanza/20 ... me-reports

A source told the Connecticut Post that medications usually prescribed for mental illness were not found at the home.

Investigators are trying determine if Lanza was being treated for a medical or psychiatric ailment, and what, if anything, was prescribed, the source told the paper.

Lanza's parents had previously told poeple their son had Asperger's syndrome, a form of high-functioning autism, but it is unclear if he had ever been formally diagnosed.
jpete
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Harman Mk II
Coal Size/Type: Stove, Nut, Pea
Other Heating: Dino juice

Re: Shootings and where the problem begins

PostBy: Yanche On: Wed Dec 19, 2012 1:10 am

jpete wrote:
Yanche wrote:Rwalker, what would you do differently if one of your children had some of the symptoms being attributed to the CT shooter, or a medically diagnosed mental disorder being treated with medication?


Neither of which the shooter had but, please, continue...

I'll continue ... My question was specifically directed to Rwalker, who outlined how his family's history has a tradition of gun ownership, training and self reliance on having a gun close by for protection. Nothing wrong with that. That's his life experience. But, I asked what would he do differently if there was a child in his family with behavior characteristics so often identified after a horrible tragedy like this. The shooters in past tragedies that have that "look" or loner personalities. The ones we all say we "should have known". Knowing that just having a "look" or feeling about a person is not sufficient, I further qualified my question with a "medically diagnosed mental disorder". I'm just trying to understand what he would do differently if he had such a family situation. Clearly the outside threat he seeks to protect him and his family from would still be present. So what would he do differently with his guns?
Yanche
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Alternate Heating Systems S-130
Coal Size/Type: Anthracite Pea

Re: Shootings and where the problem begins

PostBy: Northern Maine On: Wed Dec 19, 2012 6:41 am

Yanche wrote:
jpete wrote:
Yanche wrote:Rwalker, what would you do differently if one of your children had some of the symptoms being attributed to the CT shooter, or a medically diagnosed mental disorder being treated with medication?


Neither of which the shooter had but, please, continue...

I'll continue ... My question was specifically directed to Rwalker, who outlined how his family's history has a tradition of gun ownership, training and self reliance on having a gun close by for protection. Nothing wrong with that. That's his life experience. But, I asked what would he do differently if there was a child in his family with behavior characteristics so often identified after a horrible tragedy like this. The shooters in past tragedies that have that "look" or loner personalities. The ones we all say we "should have known". Knowing that just having a "look" or feeling about a person is not sufficient, I further qualified my question with a "medically diagnosed mental disorder". I'm just trying to understand what he would do differently if he had such a family situation. Clearly the outside threat he seeks to protect him and his family from would still be present. So what would he do differently with his guns?


Jpete...live by your own creed...
Northern Maine
 
Stove/Furnace Make: CENTRAL Boiler CL-5648
Stove/Furnace Model: CL-5648

Re: Shootings and where the problem begins

PostBy: SteveZee On: Wed Dec 19, 2012 7:43 am

Neither of which the shooter had but, please, continue...[/quote]
I'll continue ... My question was specifically directed to Rwalker, who outlined how his family's history has a tradition of gun ownership, training and self reliance on having a gun close by for protection. Nothing wrong with that. That's his life experience. But, I asked what would he do differently if there was a child in his family with behavior characteristics so often identified after a horrible tragedy like this. The shooters in past tragedies that have that "look" or loner personalities. The ones we all say we "should have known". Knowing that just having a "look" or feeling about a person is not sufficient, I further qualified my question with a "medically diagnosed mental disorder". I'm just trying to understand what he would do differently if he had such a family situation. Clearly the outside threat he seeks to protect him and his family from would still be present. So what would he do differently with his guns?[/quote]

Jpete...live by your own creed...[/quote]
:P
SteveZee
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Glenwood Modern Oak 116 & Glenwood 208 C Range

Re: Shootings and where the problem begins

PostBy: Northern Maine On: Wed Dec 19, 2012 7:48 am

SteveZee wrote:Neither of which the shooter had but, please, continue...

I'll continue ... My question was specifically directed to Rwalker, who outlined how his family's history has a tradition of gun ownership, training and self reliance on having a gun close by for protection. Nothing wrong with that. That's his life experience. But, I asked what would he do differently if there was a child in his family with behavior characteristics so often identified after a horrible tragedy like this. The shooters in past tragedies that have that "look" or loner personalities. The ones we all say we "should have known". Knowing that just having a "look" or feeling about a person is not sufficient, I further qualified my question with a "medically diagnosed mental disorder". I'm just trying to understand what he would do differently if he had such a family situation. Clearly the outside threat he seeks to protect him and his family from would still be present. So what would he do differently with his guns?[/quote]

Jpete...live by your own creed...[/quote]
:P[/quote]
Jpete can only focus on himself...his rights, how he would do it and how his way is the only way! Hmmmm.... :roll: :(
Northern Maine
 
Stove/Furnace Make: CENTRAL Boiler CL-5648
Stove/Furnace Model: CL-5648

Re: Shootings and where the problem begins

PostBy: jpete On: Wed Dec 19, 2012 11:56 am

Northern Maine wrote:
Jpete...live by your own creed...


Whose creed do you live by?
jpete
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Harman Mk II
Coal Size/Type: Stove, Nut, Pea
Other Heating: Dino juice

Re: Shootings and where the problem begins

PostBy: Northern Maine On: Wed Dec 19, 2012 4:30 pm

jpete wrote:
Northern Maine wrote:
Jpete...live by your own creed...


Whose creed do you live by?


A question unanswered leaves you wondering about the untold! :roll:
Northern Maine
 
Stove/Furnace Make: CENTRAL Boiler CL-5648
Stove/Furnace Model: CL-5648

Re: Shootings and where the problem begins

PostBy: jpete On: Wed Dec 19, 2012 6:01 pm

Northern Maine wrote:
A question unanswered leaves you wondering about the untold! :roll:


I don't wonder about you at all. You can't answer a direct question.
jpete
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Harman Mk II
Coal Size/Type: Stove, Nut, Pea
Other Heating: Dino juice

Re: Shootings and where the problem begins

PostBy: homecomfort On: Wed Dec 19, 2012 6:47 pm

scared citizens could start their own war with all of the weapons held dear to your hearts. wait, they already have started the war. and sanity is the first casualty.
homecomfort
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Franco-Belge,+ Penn Stove
Stove/Furnace Model: Normandie, + Chubby

Re: Shootings and where the problem begins

PostBy: Rwalker On: Wed Dec 19, 2012 7:15 pm

I'll continue ... My question was specifically directed to Rwalker, who outlined how his family's history has a tradition of gun ownership, training and self reliance on having a gun close by for protection. Nothing wrong with that. That's his life experience. But, I asked what would he do differently if there was a child in his family with behavior characteristics so often identified after a horrible tragedy like this. The shooters in past tragedies that have that "look" or loner personalities. The ones we all say we "should have known". Knowing that just having a "look" or feeling about a person is not sufficient, I further qualified my question with a "medically diagnosed mental disorder". I'm just trying to understand what he would do differently if he had such a family situation. Clearly the outside threat he seeks to protect him and his family from would still be present. So what would he do differently with his guns?


Good question. First and foremost I would make sure my child, from day 1 of finding out he had any sort of mental disorder, received the best medical/psychological care available. I would not be fine with "he is how he is" I would seek out experts even if it meant traveling to other states to do it. Secondly, once we had it confirmed and diagnosed, we would follow through with treatment to a "T". Thirdly, we would make sure that child had as many outlets as possible. This meaning exercise, sports, fishing, music, hunting, art, whatever he/she found enjoyment with and would make sure they had every chance to partake in such activities at the highest levels. It would be a collective effort that my entire family would participate in. I would do all of this at any expense. Most importantly I would LISTEN to him/her.

As far as my firearms go I would still carry, my wife would still carry, and I would still have it on the nightstand every night when I went to bed. At all other times, my guns would be secured how they currently are. You ASSUME that because I have my handgun on my nightstand at night that it stays there at all times. This is an incorrect assumption, but as a gun owner, CCW holder, and damn proud hillbilly/country boy, I expect this criticism out of those who have never been around guns, never milked a cow, never drove a tractor, never searched for hours in the snow for a newborn calf before it frooze to death, never been on a horse, never grew your own food, never survived on meat you raised and butchered, never swam in a creek full of water snakes and crayfish, never got "bit" by an electric fence, never slid down a hay elevator, never used a wooden broom handle to push up a power line so the hay wagon could fit under it, never washed the body cavity of your deer out in the same creek you swam in, never fell through the ice while ice fishing...

:roll:
Rwalker
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Hitzer
Stove/Furnace Model: 983