Chimney Draft Failure

Re: Chimney Draft Failure

PostBy: Lightning On: Sat Nov 02, 2013 6:27 am

I find the dynamics of a chimney quite interesting. There are so many variables. On Wed night the low temp was 31 degrees outside. Thursday daytime warms up to 62 and my draft during the day runs a -.01. Then Thursday night, low of 50. Friday daytime warms up to 63 degrees and my draft runs a solid -.02.

The conclusion I draw is that on Thursday the chimney was still cold from the low of 31 the night before. Then Friday the chimney was warmer since the low before it was only 50. I believe this explains the stronger drafting on Friday. This implies that even the weather from a day earlier has influence on what my chimney is doing currently.

I have an exterior block chimney. Anyone else notice a trend like this?
Lightning
 
Hand Fed Coal Furnace: Clayton 1537G
Coal Size/Type: Nut Size / White Ash

Re: Chimney Draft Failure

PostBy: joeq On: Sat Nov 02, 2013 9:42 am

I have a 15-20' Metalbestous external chimney, and it seems it functions the same way you're explaining Lightning. haven't been burning long enuff to conclusively say it's accurate, but it appears there could be something to it. It does make sense, doesn't it?
P.S. What happened to your Halloween costume? :)
joeq
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Surdiac Gotha 513
Stove/Furnace Make: Oil fired
Stove/Furnace Model: Thermopride

Re: Chimney Draft Failure

PostBy: Lightning On: Sat Nov 02, 2013 11:01 am

joeq wrote:I have a 15-20' Metalbestous external chimney, and it seems it functions the same way you're explaining Lightning. haven't been burning long enuff to conclusively say it's accurate, but it appears there could be something to it. It does make sense, doesn't it?
P.S. What happened to your Halloween costume? :)


Yeah makes sense to me. But other theories I've come up with were wrong due to variables that I overlooked too haha.

I thought I would take off the costume till next year lol. Or maybe I should put it back on for a while :lol:
Lightning
 
Hand Fed Coal Furnace: Clayton 1537G
Coal Size/Type: Nut Size / White Ash

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Re: Chimney Draft Failure

PostBy: franco b On: Sat Nov 02, 2013 11:12 am

Lightning wrote:I thought I would take off the costume till next year lol. Or maybe I should put it back on for a while


I liked it. You can't be a super hero without a proper costume.
franco b
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: V ermont Castings 2310, Franco Belge 262
Baseburners & Antiques: Glenwood Modern Oak 114
Coal Size/Type: nut and pea

Re: Chimney Draft Failure

PostBy: Lightning On: Wed Nov 06, 2013 9:31 pm

So today with the warm 65 degrees outside I tried something new. I cut the primary down to near nothing and propped my load door open a quarter inch for the whole day. The extra air moving thru the fire box maintained a draft between -.02 and -.03. It also cooled the furnace down to 180 degrees over load door so the blowers didn't run but only a couple times briefly. It worked fantastic to get thru a warm day without loosing the fire or having a draft failure, and the house didn't get excessively hot either.

Then this evening I opened the ash pan door for a few minutes to get her revved back up a bit for a shake and reload.
Lightning
 
Hand Fed Coal Furnace: Clayton 1537G
Coal Size/Type: Nut Size / White Ash

Re: Chimney Draft Failure

PostBy: Lightning On: Thu Dec 05, 2013 2:33 pm

It's about 60 degrees outside. Draft is getting critical. I better call the female unit and make some adjustments :shock:
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Lightning
 
Hand Fed Coal Furnace: Clayton 1537G
Coal Size/Type: Nut Size / White Ash

Re: Chimney Draft Failure

PostBy: Loco627 On: Thu Dec 05, 2013 3:00 pm

Lightning wrote:It's about 60 degrees outside. Draft is getting critical. I better call the female unit and make some adjustments :shock:



I assume you're monitoring remotely? If so, that's a great idea. I think I'll set something up!!
Loco627
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: DS Machine Circulator 1500
Stove/Furnace Make: DS Machine
Stove/Furnace Model: 1500 Circulator

Re: Chimney Draft Failure

PostBy: Lightning On: Thu Dec 05, 2013 3:30 pm

Yes sir, more on that right here,
Remote Monitoring Made Simple with Old Cell Phone
Lightning
 
Hand Fed Coal Furnace: Clayton 1537G
Coal Size/Type: Nut Size / White Ash

Re: Chimney Draft Failure

PostBy: Sunny Boy On: Thu Dec 05, 2013 8:51 pm

I'm lucky, this house was originally built for coal heat and cooking in the late 1800's. In fact, it's earliest two owners were the local coal dealers. They built the chimneys very high. I can't reach the tops standing as high as possible on a 40 foot extension ladder. :shock:

And all three chimneys are at the peak of the gables so they are much higher than any part of the roof.

Paul
Sunny Boy
 
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: Anthracite Industrial, domestic hot water heater
Baseburners & Antiques: Glenwood range 208, # 6 base heater, Modern Oak 118.
Coal Size/Type: Nuts !
Other Heating: Oil &electric plenum furnace

Re: Chimney Draft Failure

PostBy: DePippo79 On: Fri Dec 06, 2013 11:02 am

Agreed Paul, another benefit of having a old house. The multiple flues and coal room in basement is nice too. Matt

Revision: Only problem with having a 40 foot chimney is having to be real carefull with damper control. Would have a blow torch in the basement if one was left wide open.
DePippo79
 
Baseburners & Antiques: Glenwood Oak 40
Coal Size/Type: Stove, nut/anthracite

Re: Chimney Draft Failure

PostBy: Lightning On: Fri Dec 06, 2013 12:23 pm

When I do vinyl siding next summer I hope, I wanna insulate my exterior block chimney so temp variations don't have so much impact :D
Lightning
 
Hand Fed Coal Furnace: Clayton 1537G
Coal Size/Type: Nut Size / White Ash

Re: Chimney Draft Failure

PostBy: coalcracker On: Sat Dec 07, 2013 2:08 pm

Lightning wrote:This morning I knew it was gonna be warm and I sent the wife a text saying we will be under a "low draft watch" today.. Knowing she didn't have work I didn't prepare the furnace for a low draft condition. Well she went out shopping for a few hours and when she came home she sent me a message saying that the low temp alarm (set for 130) for the flue pipe was beeping (on my handy remote BBQ thermometer ;) ). I immediately told her to go into the basement and look at the mano and sure enough, it was below 0 and the basement reeked of sulfur. SO, I had her hit the override switch for the draft inducer and took it up to a .03" WC. So no harm, no foul :D

My normal procedure for a warm day trying to idle the fire back is too -
1. Cut primary air to a sliver to keep a low and slow fire..
2. Open the MPD. (I usually leave it open unless its really cold and the baro can't keep my draft down to a .03"WC)
3. Open my secondary (over the fire air valve) to 50 - 100% depending on conditions outside.

*I've found that when I cut the primary air and give it more secondary it maintains draft. The secondary air doesn't aid much with combustion when running a low fire, but instead is just more heated air mass that goes up the chimney and keeps the draft. I've also added vents on two sides of the basement. These vents compensate for any (if any) stack effect going on in the basement from warm air going up thru the floor. The vents more or less keep atmospheric pressure between outside and the basement balanced since any negative pressure in the basement would cannablize draft pressure.

I'd like to hear what my other fellow coal burners do to keep a chimney draft under warm day outside conditions :D



See what happens when you close the flue pipe damper ? Your draft goes away. :D

Open the flue pipe damper, better yet remove it and scrap it, and open the ash pan door, you won't have a low draft condition. I haven't had a low draft condition in 20 years. Better yet, buy a Harman.

wait , I just realized, you're running a baro damper AND an MPD, on a coal stove. You'll never get that to burn right...this is hilarious. I had a buddy with just a baro on his stove and he gave up on it and never used it. A baro is designed for a stoker coal stove, or an oil burner- not a hand fired stove. Get rid of the baro. If your stove it internally baffled, get rid of the MPD too. Realize if you put enough obstructions in the flue pipe with those gadgets, you'll never have consistent draft.

If you want to obstruct the draft, do it INSIDE the stove with baffling, and run an unobstructed flue pipe and chimney. This way the internal baffle acts as a heat exchanger.
coalcracker
 
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: Standard sealed hot water boiler, hand fed
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Harman Mark I Magnafire
Baseburners & Antiques: Lehigh Oak 18, Washington potbelly, Sears Roebuck parlor cabinet, PIttston 6 lid cook stove, vintage combo gas/coal cook stove 4 lid
Coal Size/Type: nut
Stove/Furnace Make: Harman
Stove/Furnace Model: Mark I Magnafire

Re: Chimney Draft Failure

PostBy: freetown fred On: Sat Dec 07, 2013 2:29 pm

Geeze cc, you're a VERY knowledgable person apparently concerning all stoves & all draft issues?????????????????????????? :roll:
freetown fred
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: HITZER 50-93
Coal Size/Type: BLASCHAK Nut/Stove mix

Re: Chimney Draft Failure

PostBy: Rob R. On: Sat Dec 07, 2013 2:34 pm

coalcracker wrote:
Lightning wrote:This morning I knew it was gonna be warm and I sent the wife a text saying we will be under a "low draft watch" today.. Knowing she didn't have work I didn't prepare the furnace for a low draft condition. Well she went out shopping for a few hours and when she came home she sent me a message saying that the low temp alarm (set for 130) for the flue pipe was beeping (on my handy remote BBQ thermometer ;) ). I immediately told her to go into the basement and look at the mano and sure enough, it was below 0 and the basement reeked of sulfur. SO, I had her hit the override switch for the draft inducer and took it up to a .03" WC. So no harm, no foul :D

My normal procedure for a warm day trying to idle the fire back is too -
1. Cut primary air to a sliver to keep a low and slow fire..
2. Open the MPD. (I usually leave it open unless its really cold and the baro can't keep my draft down to a .03"WC)
3. Open my secondary (over the fire air valve) to 50 - 100% depending on conditions outside.

*I've found that when I cut the primary air and give it more secondary it maintains draft. The secondary air doesn't aid much with combustion when running a low fire, but instead is just more heated air mass that goes up the chimney and keeps the draft. I've also added vents on two sides of the basement. These vents compensate for any (if any) stack effect going on in the basement from warm air going up thru the floor. The vents more or less keep atmospheric pressure between outside and the basement balanced since any negative pressure in the basement would cannablize draft pressure.

I'd like to hear what my other fellow coal burners do to keep a chimney draft under warm day outside conditions :D



See what happens when you close the flue pipe damper ? Your draft goes away. :D

Open the flue pipe damper, better yet remove it and scrap it, and open the ash pan door, you won't have a low draft condition. I haven't had a low draft condition in 20 years. Better yet, buy a Harman.

wait , I just realized, you're running a baro damper AND an MPD, on a coal stove. You'll never get that to burn right...this is hilarious. I had a buddy with just a baro on his stove and he gave up on it and never used it. A baro is designed for a stoker coal stove, or an oil burner- not a hand fired stove. Get rid of the baro. If your stove it internally baffled, get rid of the MPD too. Realize if you put enough obstructions in the flue pipe with those gadgets, you'll never have consistent draft.

If you want to obstruct the draft, do it INSIDE the stove with baffling, and run an unobstructed flue pipe and chimney. This way the internal baffle acts as a heat exchanger.


You are making some pretty big generalizations about how to run equipment from different manufactures. Some stove manufactures recommend a manual pipe damper, some do not...follow the directions or do what works best in your specific circumstances. A baro doesn't allow consistent draft? Well what does it do then? In my system I would never be able to keep the draft at a manageable level without a baro.

Feel free to share what works for you, but don't make blanket statements about how to run equipment that might have different requirements than yours...and please don't tell everyone they have to buy a Harman to burn coal.
Rob R.
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: EFM DF520
Coal Size/Type: Rice/buck
Other Heating: Dad's 1953 EFM Highboy

Re: Chimney Draft Failure

PostBy: Lightning On: Sat Dec 07, 2013 2:42 pm

Well said Rob. Apparently this guy has burned coal for 20 years with blinders on. :roll:
Lightning
 
Hand Fed Coal Furnace: Clayton 1537G
Coal Size/Type: Nut Size / White Ash

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