Chimney Draft Failure

Re: Chimney Draft Failure

PostBy: Lightning On: Sat Dec 07, 2013 3:42 pm

coalcracker wrote:See what happens when you close the flue pipe damper ? Your draft goes away.
No. Way... :lol:

coalcracker wrote:Open the flue pipe damper, better yet remove it and scrap it, and open the ash pan door, you won't have a low draft condition. I haven't had a low draft condition in 20 years. Better yet, buy a Harman.
Open the ash door so my furnace melts into a puddle of glowing iron? You can't be serious.

coalcracker wrote:wait , I just realized, you're running a baro damper AND an MPD, on a coal stove. You'll never get that to burn right...this is hilarious.
Hilarious... have you tried it? I get 18-24 hour burns that only vary by a few degrees without being touched..

coalcracker wrote:Better yet, buy a Harman.
What the hell is a Harmon? :lol:

coalcracker wrote:Realize if you put enough obstructions in the flue pipe with those gadgets, you'll never have consistent draft.
:P

Ok. I'm done bein a wise guy. Best of luck to ya Coalcracker!
Last edited by Lightning on Sat Dec 07, 2013 5:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Lightning
 
Hand Fed Coal Furnace: Clayton 1537G
Coal Size/Type: Nut/Stove Size Mix

Re: Chimney Draft Failure

PostBy: tcalo On: Sat Dec 07, 2013 5:53 pm

It's poor advice and lack of knowledge that creates dangerous situations. Understanding draft isn't exactly rocket science. Understanding how draft and dampers work are a fundamental part of burning coal. Like Rob R mentioned, every stove and setup is different. The best advice is to follow the manufacturers specs. I could see the bashing now... :hammer: .
tcalo
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Chubby Coal Stove
Coal Size/Type: Nut Anthracite

Re: Chimney Draft Failure

PostBy: joeq On: Sat Dec 07, 2013 7:18 pm

My stoves manufacturer recommends a baro, but I haven't got the room behind my stove, so for now I'm using an MPD and trying it out. but I understand to set the baro correctly, it's beneficial to have an MPD B4 it to adjust it correctly. I'm able to monitor my draft with a manometer, and so far so good.
However, recently I'm having a tough time keeping my fire consistent. I'm adjusting the draft with the MPD, and the thermostat, (air intake), but the fire won't take off. The other day, when I initially fired up the stove, it took right off, but with-in a few hrs, all temps on the stove were falling. Then I realized the outside temp (@ midnite) had raised from 42* to 52 and "wet" outside. Because of the warm temp, I just let it fizzle out. Today, I'm attempting it again. Got it to take off relatively quickly, but now, once again after a couple hrs, I'm fighting to keep it going.
At 1st I set my MPD, (almost closed) to reduce the draft from .08-09,down to about .04-05 (manufacturers recommendations), and closed down my intake to normal. About 15 mins later the fire was dull and temps were less than 300*. So I opened "just" the air intake (thermostat), but to no avail. To sum it up, (cause I have to leave), opening the MPD and bringing the draft up to .07, "visually" the color is coming back. However the thermometer on the heat exchanger, is still less than 300* Maybe things will settle down when the stove has been on a few hrs.
Lightning, I hear you talking about primary air, and secondary. My stove only has one intake port at the rear of the stove. Does yours have 2?
joeq
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Surdiac Gotha 513
Stove/Furnace Make: Oil fired
Stove/Furnace Model: Thermopride

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Re: Chimney Draft Failure

PostBy: Lightning On: Sat Dec 07, 2013 8:49 pm

Hi Joe, I recently installed a secondary air distribution system. Here is the thread for it. There is a video link on page 6 I believe

Secondary Air Distribution System
Lightning
 
Hand Fed Coal Furnace: Clayton 1537G
Coal Size/Type: Nut/Stove Size Mix

Re: Chimney Draft Failure

PostBy: joeq On: Sat Dec 07, 2013 10:23 pm

Thanx Lee, I'll check it out.
joeq
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Surdiac Gotha 513
Stove/Furnace Make: Oil fired
Stove/Furnace Model: Thermopride

Re: Chimney Draft Failure

PostBy: franco b On: Sat Dec 07, 2013 10:34 pm

joeq wrote:My stove only has one intake port at the rear of the stove. Does yours have 2?

You stove has a series of secondary air ports as holes by the glass door. It could be they are letting in too much air over the fire and starving the primary air. Try blocking some of those holes off.

Your stove has a thin coal bed so secondary air is not as critical as with a deep bed. The Franco Belge uses no secondary air and works fine.
franco b
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: V ermont Castings 2310, Franco Belge 262
Baseburners & Antiques: Glenwood Modern Oak 114
Coal Size/Type: nut and pea

Re: Chimney Draft Failure

PostBy: dcrane On: Sat Dec 07, 2013 10:40 pm

sounds like this is common today...No Wind... Smoked Out the Basement
dcrane
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Crane 404

Re: Chimney Draft Failure

PostBy: Keepaeyeonit On: Sat Dec 07, 2013 11:03 pm

Well said Lee :up: ,well with all the things I have been through dealing with a draft loss I'm 100% sure that 99% of the time its the chimney and not the equipment that your running but I don't have 20 years behind me and I have a Hitzer insert with a Baro :shock: :rofl: .Keepaeyeonit :nana:
Keepaeyeonit
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Hitzer 983 insert
Coal Size/Type: Mammoth nut
Other Heating: oil furnace,and a crappy heat pump

Re: Chimney Draft Failure

PostBy: joeq On: Sun Dec 08, 2013 1:09 am

franco b wrote:You stove has a series of secondary air ports as holes by the glass door. It could be they are letting in too much air over the fire and starving the primary air. Try blocking some of those holes off.


I'm very meticulous when scraping the grates and ensuring those port covers are closed, but thanx for the info Franc. Now that the stoves been running almost 7 hrs, it seems to be settling in. We'll see what morning brings after a long nite (for this stove) of no attention.The outside temp is now in the 20s, and I opened my MPD a tad to raise my draft a little high to .06. I also slightly closed off my primary air a touch, so hopefully the coals will be ablaze when I wake up.
joeq
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Surdiac Gotha 513
Stove/Furnace Make: Oil fired
Stove/Furnace Model: Thermopride

Re: Chimney Draft Failure

PostBy: coalcracker On: Sun Dec 08, 2013 9:17 am

It's best to look at any chimney draft problems from a practical standpoint, if there are multiple devices installed along the flow path that are specifically designed to impede and limit the exhaust flow, it's only logical that particular stove/chimney setup will display a lower draft, or possibly not enough draft, to successfully burn the stove with good results. The stove will become very sensitive to any drop in barometric pressure, because these devices are limiting much of the draft to begin with. Even if a fpd or baro device is completely open, the flap being vertical still presents a minor flow restriction to the stove, instead of a completely open pipe. In an internal combustion engine, people pay big money to port the cylinder heads and intake manifold passageways, just to get the engine to breath better and make more horsepower, and therein lies much of the added power over a stock engine. Gas flow is gas flow, controlled by the laws of physics. Likewise, installing multiple flap valves that close completely or partially in a chimney, is going to have detrimental effects on the stove draft- because by design, that's what these devices were intended to do. The stove may work ok or barely in a high draft condition, but if the draft falls off due to less barometric pressure, a stove set up like that, will tend to go out, or heat very poorly. I've seen a lot of stoves with no damper, with manual fpd's, and a few with baro dampers- the worst problem I've seen, is a coal stove with a baro that would not even burn, and constantly went out. The next worst setup I've seen, was a coal stove with the exit pipe angling down, to make it under the mantle of a fireplace chimney- that stove won't burn coal well at all, and only works with wood. Coal requires a strong draft to burn. Anything done to lessen the draft beyond the ignition point, results in a stove that won't burn or heat, and goes out. I'd rather have a stove letting some heat up the chimney, than one that keeps going out and won't even start. So there you have it.
coalcracker
 
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: Standard sealed hot water boiler, hand fed
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Harman Mark I Magnafire
Baseburners & Antiques: Lehigh Oak 18, Washington potbelly, Sears Roebuck parlor cabinet, PIttston 6 lid cook stove, vintage combo gas/coal cook stove 4 lid
Coal Size/Type: nut
Stove/Furnace Make: Harman
Stove/Furnace Model: Mark I Magnafire

Re: Chimney Draft Failure

PostBy: freetown fred On: Sun Dec 08, 2013 9:44 am

cc, you appear to be an expert on finding the extreme rarity & taking it for gospel concerning ALL heating devices--I feel bad being the one to share this with you--but, you are WAY off base with your knowledge or lack of same. If you've got some hands on knowledge, I know I'm all ears, but just reading something in some biased mag or book does NOT impress me in the least. Explain your set up! Not encyclopedia Britannica's. ;)
freetown fred
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: HITZER 50-93
Coal Size/Type: BLASCHAK Nut/Stove mix

Re: Chimney Draft Failure

PostBy: joeq On: Sun Dec 08, 2013 9:56 am

The worst draft problem I had , (recently), was when my 90* cleanout tee was clogged solid from a few winters worth of ash build-up. "That" kinda caused a flow restriction. And altho I can appreciate your comparison to the internal combustion engine, I don't think it's on the same level as a coal stove. A 6" pipe supplies far more area needed for complete combustion on a coal/wood stove, for the necessary speed of the exhaust going up the chimney, than a 1 7/8ths hedder tube on a cylinder of a 455 at 6000RPM. A baro doesn't provide "any" restriction in the pipe, while an open MPD valve is miniscule in area for the exiting gases. My stove Co. engineers recommend an .04 draft to operate efficiently, and only an MPD or baro, (or both) will provide this to slow down the exiting gases.
And continuing my post from last nite, after 8 hrs of unattended operation, my 513 was still burning bright :) this morning, even tho the grates were clogged solid. The draft dropped a fraction to .05, so opening the Mpd slighty and closing the intake a tad seemed to be the ticket.
(Wow, must post # just hit 421. An "infamous" Pontiac engine number. I like it)
joeq
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Surdiac Gotha 513
Stove/Furnace Make: Oil fired
Stove/Furnace Model: Thermopride

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