Besides gun laws, what can be done to actually prevent

Re: Besides gun laws, what can be done to actually prevent

PostBy: Rigar On: Wed Dec 19, 2012 11:11 pm

:arrow: Im certainly not gonna go on a tangent about gun laws.
tearing down the Constitution little by little will not make our society any safer.....only weaker.
Sadly... we as a nation have gotten soft.
.... we need to get back to basics.. we need more "old school"
banning assault rifles ( the name suggests to me that there must be a "love gun" out there somewhere?).... definitely is not the answer.
.... you can't take liberties away from the masses... to protect the masses from a few.
... it just won't work
recently... I am hearing more on the news about what a victim this scum bag was then I am hearing about the victims themselves..!! REALLY?... WE ARE VICTIMIZING THE PERPETRATOR?...wtf!..
so now every whack job out there watching TV .. is thinking Hey.." wonder what I can do to get that much attention"?
so to answer your question What can we do?.. let's start by not sensationalizing this horribly tragic event...
school entrances can be made more secure..
have armed and trained security... keep it local police posted there... the list could go on and on... but basically what I'm getting at...that schools...of any level...need to be secured...if for no other reason than to deter someone from doing this in the future...basically make these soft target HARD...and publicize it...ALOT . I'M trying to remember the last time someone stormed into a police station and murdered a bunch of innocent people...
... my point here ultimately is even whackos know better..!! so bottom line...one way or another...the schools need to be secured .PERIOD !!...Sadly that solution would open a new debate called "whos going to pay for THAT!" I will answer that one now..."we all will....one way or another"
Last edited by Rigar on Wed Dec 19, 2012 11:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Rigar
 
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Re: Besides gun laws, what can be done to actually prevent

PostBy: freetown fred On: Wed Dec 19, 2012 11:27 pm

I forget what state back when--I think Maine--they used to park cop cars on rt 95 when it first opened & it deterred a lot of whacky driving. Not saying this kind of thing is an absolute fix but I stated before, when my kids were in the Marathon schools they always had a Troopers car out front & a trooper that tought Community something or other in the school. They were THERE. Nothing is going to stop a crazy *censored* from getting in where-ever they want no matter how locked down the school is but Richards description of his grandkids or neices school fits ours-- I would like to know what kind of glass was in that Ct school entry way-- It's easy to secure a school the size of ours out here.
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Re: Besides gun laws, what can be done to actually prevent

PostBy: jpete On: Wed Dec 19, 2012 11:56 pm

You could always equip the kids with body armor back packs.

http://www.motherjones.com/mojo/2012/12 ... sales-soar

Williams is the president of Amendment II, a Salt Lake City-based company that manufactures lightweight body armor for law enforcement and military use. But lately they've moved into a different market: body armor for kids. Six months ago, Amendment II introduced a new line of backpacks, built with the company's signature carbon nanotube armor, designed to keep kids safe in the event of school shootings. Since Friday's massacre at a Newtown, Connecticut, elementary school, sales have gone through the roof. "I can't go into exact sales numbers, but basically we tripled our sales volume of backpacks that we typically do in a month—in one week," Williams says.


I like the name of the company..."Amendment II"
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Re: Besides gun laws, what can be done to actually prevent

PostBy: Rigar On: Thu Dec 20, 2012 12:20 am

Freds right...
The shooter in Connecticut entered the building ( which was locked from the outside) with several UNANSWERED rounds from his rifle...
would he have continued on his mission had the glass been unbreakable?
would he have even fired at the doors if he knew there were armed security inside?
.... I know that there are a lot of "what ifs?"
and sadly I don't think there's 1 answer
... but I firmly believe that security would be a logical starting point
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Re: Besides gun laws, what can be done to actually prevent

PostBy: SMITTY On: Thu Dec 20, 2012 12:24 am

We spend all kinds of money on x-ray machines and metal detectors for airports and courthouses ... so why not at the schools? Keep the damn government OUT of that process though - keep tax dollars out of it, and DO NOT let them run it - we see how that works at the airport! :roll: I'm sure there would be PLENTY of parents that would pony up a few hundred bucks for their child's safety. I am also 100% for arming teachers. If not teachers, arm security guards ... or ARM SOMEBODY! 2 lines of defense. If they make it through the metal detectors, then security can ventilate them.

This is the way EVERY courthouse in MA is set up, on the taxpayers dime - we had no choice in the matter. At least there hasn't been one shooting incident in any courthouse in MA that I know of.

People need to stop being wimps - get educated about guns. Don't fear them - UNDERSTAND THEM. With a little common sense, this can be the LAST school shooting EVER.
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Re: Besides gun laws, what can be done to actually prevent

PostBy: jpete On: Thu Dec 20, 2012 12:30 am

Security comes down to pay. Unfortunately that's the bottom line.

As I posted elsewhere, there are over 300 schools just in RI.

Are they going to just be security or are they going to be actual cops? Do you pull a cop off the street? Does crime increase in the community if you do?

With wages and benefits, you'll be around $80,000-$100,000 per person. That's in the neighborhood of ten million a year for one cop at every school in RI.

We are already well underwater. Taxes are already quite high.

Wouldn't it just be cheaper and easier to allow teachers to carry a weapon if they so chose?
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Re: Besides gun laws, what can be done to actually prevent

PostBy: jpete On: Thu Dec 20, 2012 12:31 am

SMITTY wrote:We spend all kinds of money on x-ray machines and metal detectors for airports and courthouses ... so why not at the schools? Keep the damn government OUT of that process though - keep tax dollars out of it, and DO NOT let them run it - .


How do you keep government out of government run schools? How would you pay for it without a tax?
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Re: Besides gun laws, what can be done to actually prevent

PostBy: SMITTY On: Thu Dec 20, 2012 12:44 am

I would have every town get a group of people out there on the streets at every intersection with a collection bucket to pay for the equipment. They do it in Worcester all the time for Fire & Police. Send a letter home with the kid, telling them in light of the Sandy Hook situation, all schools need security systems like airports and courthouses. If you can get stingy people in Worcester to donate to police & fire departments or organizations, then I think they'd be all for this. Would it raise the needed funds? I have no idea. Probably not

Schools ARE government run, so I think that plan is hopeless. It certainly would be cheaper to have teachers carry, but I would, at the very least, have them go to a local gun range for a Saturday of training. Have them buy their own weapon and ammo, and require they pay for the training. Would be nice if the NRA could come up with a "Teacher's Training Program" or something. They've got many youth and new shooter programs that are very popular.

Bottom line is people need to toughen up a bit, and accept the fact that we need to fight fire WITH fire in this case. No law will fix this.
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Re: Besides gun laws, what can be done to actually prevent

PostBy: jpete On: Thu Dec 20, 2012 12:49 am

The reality is, it will likely be a union position. So you've got a pretty good salary, and the legacy costs of health insurance and pension.

I don't think passing the hat is going to cover it. :)
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Re: Besides gun laws, what can be done to actually prevent

PostBy: Rigar On: Thu Dec 20, 2012 12:50 am

Jpete...
Ten million dollars???? REALLY???
Our first lady spent that on VACATIONS alone last year...and she didnt prevent the death of ONE innocent child...
Like anything else...you get what you pay for i guess
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Re: Besides gun laws, what can be done to actually prevent

PostBy: jpete On: Thu Dec 20, 2012 1:00 am

Rigar wrote:Jpete...
Ten million dollars???? REALLY???
Our first lady spent that on VACATIONS alone last year...and she didnt prevent the death of ONE innocent child...
Like anything else...you get what you pay for i guess


That's $10 million just in RI. Just for 1 cop in each school.

Start doing the math in every state and then figure the bigger schools will need multiple cops.

I'm certainly not going to defend any government spending but with the "fiscal cliff" talks and all the hew and cry over raising taxes, I just don't see how it's possible.

And you are basically paying the guy to be cannon fodder because if someone wants to shoot up a school, the first one they have to shoot is the security guy.

It just seems cheaper, easier, and more effective to allow people to defend themselves.

I know most teachers are lefty liberals( :D ) but there have to be a few that currently own guns and even have a carry permit. Just remove the "Gun Free Zone" restriction.

Done deal. You get more than one person with a gun in the school, and it doesn't cost the taxpayer any extra.
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Re: Besides gun laws, what can be done to actually prevent

PostBy: Rigar On: Thu Dec 20, 2012 1:08 am

....i doubt they would do it for free..!!
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Re: Besides gun laws, what can be done to actually prevent

PostBy: Rigar On: Thu Dec 20, 2012 1:12 am

And i understand that RI is only one state....but shes only one person! :o
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Re: Besides gun laws, what can be done to actually prevent

PostBy: jpete On: Thu Dec 20, 2012 1:18 am

Rigar wrote:And i understand that RI is only one state....but shes only one person! :o


Well first, she isn't one person. It was family, friends, kids, security, staff, etc, etc.

And the cost is divided among 330 million people.

In RI, it's $10 million among 1 million people. And really it's much less than that because probably half or less of that million are actually taxpayers.

If I thought an extra $20 per year would make the kids safe, I'd pay it. But much like TSA, you're buying the illusion of security, not security itself.

And we haven't even tacked on infrastructure like cameras, metal detectors, alarm systems, bulletproof glass, etc.
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Re: Besides gun laws, what can be done to actually prevent

PostBy: Rigar On: Thu Dec 20, 2012 1:35 am

don't forget... using your math ... it's not 330 million taxpayers either footing "their" bill .
I know how it works... I'm not blind to the real costs. I was making an analogy
... trying to show that there are ways to fund enhancements for the security of school.
there is no 1 perfect answer
I'm sure you would find a lot of takers and there will be plenty of teachers willing to carry a firearm.
how were they trained? are they going to react the right way in a situation?
again more questions..
you're probably going to find just as many teachers UNWILLING to patrol the hallways with a firearm.
I am absolutely 100 percent against stricter gun laws... but I certainly don't want them in the hands of an art teacher that took a 4 hour course....just sayin...
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