The right stove for the job....

The right stove for the job....

PostBy: LDPosse On: Sun Dec 23, 2012 10:54 pm

Since I've been off work this past week, I pulled out the hopper (while under fire! :!: ) and burned some more of the bitty from Valier's that I had on hand.

I think I'm done trying to burn this stuff in the DS1500. The bimetal t-stat just seems to react too slowly to control the amount of volatiles this Valier coal puts out. Even banking the coal, during the first hour of the burn, the stove top temp rockets up to 600+ degrees.

On Friday, I just topped off the fire with about 15 lbs of coal, and it was very windy, 40+ MPH gusts. I figured it was only a little coal, so why bother banking.... That was a mistake. I walked away and came back about 20 mins later and the fire was ROARING and the top of the stove was reading 760 degrees! My double wall stovepipe was pushing 300. I was getting a little nervous so I dialed back the underfire air, and turned the overfire back about 1/2 way (another mistake). About 5 minutes later, I had the worst puffback I've ever seen. It sounded like a bomb going off. There was smoke everywhere. Luckily it had just come out of the air vents, nothing was broken, and my stove pipe screws held.

Yesterday, I topped off with 20-25 lbs of bit, banking it. It went from a nice, stable burn, to raging. The stove top was flirting with 600 degrees again. I let the bitty burn down and today I put the hopper back in, and loaded up with good 'ole UAE Harmony anthracite.

I hate to throw in the towel, but I think I need to get a proper stove for bituminous. The DS Manual says not to exceed 600 degrees, and I'm kind of concerned about damaging my new stove. I would like a heat source for my garage, and I've been thinking of a warm morning 400 for out there, and sticking to anthracite in the house. I'm also open to other suggestions. As much as I like the looks of the antique stuff (i.e. florence hot blast), I'd like to keep costs in check.

*EDIT* - Sometimes I think I worry too much... I ran my old dutchwest in the 800-900 degree range on the coldest nights last year... In the early 1990s, on wood, I ran the thing so hot that the inside of the blower passages glowed red and the catalytic thermometor was maxed out at 1700F (dumb teenager!) Wouldn't dream of running those kind of temps now. :oops:
LDPosse
 
Stove/Furnace Make: DS Machine, Warm Morning
Stove/Furnace Model: DS1500, WM 400-A, 523

Re: The right stove for the job....

PostBy: hman On: Mon Dec 24, 2012 8:23 am

Your having the same trouble I had my first year burning bit.I've got a DS Machine 1400,and it reacted the same way.These stoves like larger size of coal,if your going to burn bit in them.
I burnt Ohio coal my 1st year,the largest being 2x3 inches.It was what they called egg coal.By January of that year I was ready to take the stove out and go back to burning wood.
I made it through my 1st year and the following year I went to Ky.to get coal from their.I always hand pick mine,so I get sizes from softball up to a small cantaloupe.I know Kentucky would be along way to drive for you,you might try just all larger size of coal,and maybe from a different place.

Like I said before I was ready to throw in the towel,but I got with Berlin on the problems I was having,and he got me going in the right direction.
This year I've been burning Ohio coal from New Lexington,Ohio,and I like it as well as the Ky bit.I only went and got one load of the Ky.bit this year.

After I went with the larger size of coal,my problems with raging fire,running wickedly hot,puffbacks and no control of the stove has stopped.It will still get hot If I bring the temp up fast if the thermostat is open real far,but it will calm down and settle in for a good 10-15 hour and longer burn time with steady temps on the stove.
I'm glad I kept on burning coal.I wish the DS would do a better job with the soot from the bit coal.I'm still going to go get that warm morning I found.I'm going to go get it maybe at the end of the week,if it is still their.
hman
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: D.S.Machine 1400
Coal Size/Type: Lump/Bituminous
Stove/Furnace Make: D.S.Machine
Stove/Furnace Model: # 3 circulator stove

Re: The right stove for the job....

PostBy: NoSmoke On: Mon Dec 24, 2012 8:35 am

Nothing to add to the conversation I am afraid, but I do thank you guys for your experiences. I really want to try bit coal as it is so inexpensive, and know that Berlin and the others could help me to burn it right. So thanks for your input here.
NoSmoke
 
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: New Yoker WC90
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Vogelzang Pot Bellied Stove
Coal Size/Type: Stove/Nut/Pea Anthracite
Other Heating: Munchkin LP Boiler (Back-up)


Re: The right stove for the job....

PostBy: LDPosse On: Mon Dec 24, 2012 5:50 pm

hman wrote:Your having the same trouble I had my first year burning bit.I've got a DS Machine 1400,and it reacted the same way.These stoves like larger size of coal,if your going to burn bit in them.
I burnt Ohio coal my 1st year,the largest being 2x3 inches....
After I went with the larger size of coal,my problems with raging fire,running wickedly hot,puffbacks and no control of the stove has stopped.It will still get hot If I bring the temp up fast if the thermostat is open real far,but it will calm down and settle in for a good 10-15 hour and longer burn time with steady temps on the stove.


The bit coal I have on hand right now from Valier is too varied in size. There are some large chunks, but it's mixed with stuff all the way down to nut size. I'm wondering if there is someplace closer than OH that I can go to hand pick my coal....

hman wrote:I wish the DS would do a better job with the soot from the bit coal.



I haven't had as much soot build up this time as last, but I think the fact that it's been over-firing every time I load the thing has helped with that. I think the cooler temps and high winds probably made the monster draft my chimney generates even stronger, making adjustments difficult.

hman wrote:I'm still going to go get that warm morning I found.I'm going to go get it maybe at the end of the week,if it is still their.


I've been watching craigslist for one.... Saw a few model 400's out there... One for $100 but it needs firebrick ($$$) and another for $350 that looks pretty nice... Do I really need another stove? LOL

NoSmoke wrote:Nothing to add to the conversation I am afraid, but I do thank you guys for your experiences. I really want to try bit coal as it is so inexpensive, and know that Berlin and the others could help me to burn it right. So thanks for your input here.


Part of me is enticed by the fact that it's ridiculously cheap heat, but I kind of enjoy the challenge of trying to master this fuel. DS Machine did an awesome job making a stove to burn Anthracite with minimum fuss. It's just that I can't leave well enough alone, and I like playing with the stove :D
LDPosse
 
Stove/Furnace Make: DS Machine, Warm Morning
Stove/Furnace Model: DS1500, WM 400-A, 523

Re: The right stove for the job....

PostBy: SteveZee On: Mon Dec 24, 2012 6:28 pm

I think that most of the problem is that probably 95% of DS owners burn anthracite and that's what they are truly for. Most of the antiques cylinders like my Glenwood (in direct draft mode) or the Warm mornings type would do bit coal much easier.
SteveZee
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Glenwood Modern Oak 116 & Glenwood 208 C Range

Re: The right stove for the job....

PostBy: carlherrnstein On: Mon Dec 24, 2012 7:31 pm

I hate to sound too simplistic but, all stoves are a metal box some are cast some are fabed out of sheet, its up to the operator to figure out how to, and to, control it.

I also would have a raging fire if I filled my stove up with a lot of coal. What I did to correct this was to look at the air inlet to see how open it is. If it is open a lot I only add a small amount of coal till the stove heats up till the air shutter closes down then I fill it up.


If its open wide when you add coal it will start giving off its gases and they will burn hot, the more coal you add, the more coal gas burns and the hotter it gets till the bimetalic shutter starts fluttering and slowing the fire.

I burn a wide mix of coal about egg to 8" peices.

Merry Christmas
carlherrnstein
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: combustioneer model 77B
Coal Size/Type: pea stoker/Ohio bituminous

Re: The right stove for the job....

PostBy: LDPosse On: Mon Dec 24, 2012 8:20 pm

carlherrnstein wrote:I hate to sound too simplistic but, all stoves are a metal box some are cast some are fabed out of sheet, its up to the operator to figure out how to, and to, control it.

I also would have a raging fire if I filled my stove up with a lot of coal. What I did to correct this was to look at the air inlet to see how open it is. If it is open a lot I only add a small amount of coal till the stove heats up till the air shutter closes down then I fill it up.

I burn a wide mix of coal about egg to 8" peices.


Maybe I need to experiment with adding smaller amounts of coal at a time. I think I definitely need to get larger coal, as well.

carlherrnstein wrote:If its open wide when you add coal it will start giving off its gases and they will burn hot, the more coal you add, the more coal gas burns and the hotter it gets till the bimetalic shutter starts fluttering and slowing the fire.


That bimetal stat seems to work against me, just like you're saying it would if it's open... When I put the bit in, it takes a while to catch, and the shutter opens up pretty far. Then it takes a while for it to react to the heat and start closing, and by the time it does, the coal bed is blazing hot, giving off tons of coal gas, setting things up for a spectacular puffback. I wish DS would have made the dial dampers on the front of the stove functional... The bimetal door could be closed, and the manual dampers could be set for burning off volatiles at a slow, controlled rate. Once the fire has matured, the bimetal tstat could be set back to the desired temp.....


carlherrnstein wrote:Merry Christmas


Thanks, you too!
LDPosse
 
Stove/Furnace Make: DS Machine, Warm Morning
Stove/Furnace Model: DS1500, WM 400-A, 523

Re: The right stove for the job....

PostBy: LsFarm On: Tue Dec 25, 2012 10:28 am

Bit coal will out-gass it's volitiles once it reaches the right temp,, and you need more over-fire air to burn the volitiles or else you will just
make soot.

I'd keep looking for a Stokermatic or Combustioneer Bit-stoker furnace.. not pretty, but with a hopper and a SMALL amount of coal being fed on a regular basis, the volitiles are burnt off in a controled manner and rate, leaving little soot, and only ash and a clinker or two to remove from the burn pot.

The Bit-stokers are the 'warm morning" and 'Hot-Blast' of the Bit burners..

You never know what you might find if you keep looking..

Good luck with your search for a good bit-burner !!

Greg L
LsFarm
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Axeman Anderson 260
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: Self-built 'Big Bertha' SS Boiler
Baseburners & Antiques: Keystone 11, Art Garland

Re: The right stove for the job....

PostBy: SteveZee On: Wed Dec 26, 2012 3:09 am

Yeah that's really it Greg. That secondary air is the key. It's actually called "Gas Burner" on my 116. You can almost see it in my avatar pix.
SteveZee
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Glenwood Modern Oak 116 & Glenwood 208 C Range

Re: The right stove for the job....

PostBy: wsherrick On: Wed Dec 26, 2012 3:35 am

You want a Florence Hot Blast. They are made specifically for Bituminous. They have several on ebay right now. They are very common stoves and I see them for sale all the time.
wsherrick
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: None
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: None
Hot Air Coal Stoker Furnace: None
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: None
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Glenwood Base Heater, Crawford Base Heater
Hand Fed Coal Furnace: None
Baseburners & Antiques: Crawford Base Heater, Glenwood, Stanley Argand
Coal Size/Type: Chestnut, Stove Size

Re: The right stove for the job....

PostBy: casino_boy On: Sat Dec 29, 2012 9:47 pm

I burn sub bit pea coal in my Hizer 82 fu and find that it works great. I cant get the larger size for it any place.I find that if i open the ash door to rev it up a bit then shake it down.I then take a hoe and push the coal up from the front of the stove to the back so to bank the new coal in the front of the stove. I leave the ash door open a bit to start things off and then shut it up but have the load door open usally 15 min or so you want the stove control flap in the back of the stove to open befor you close the load door up. Buy having the load door open it will cool the stove down and bring your draft back under controll. Make sure your mpd is open all this time allso if you have one. I then finish getting ready for work usally 1/2 hour yet and just befor i leave i turn my mpd to were i want it.I find by this way i spend most of my time waiting for the back stove flap to start fluttering agin sitting in a chair admiring the blue ladies before i shut the load door. No window so is the only time i get to watch them.
Cheers
casino_boy
 
Hand Fed Coal Furnace: Htzer 82 FA
Coal Size/Type: sub-bit pea, kentky 2 x 6 bit

Re: The right stove for the job....

PostBy: LDPosse On: Sun Dec 30, 2012 6:30 pm

wsherrick wrote:You want a Florence Hot Blast. They are made specifically for Bituminous. They have several on ebay right now. They are very common stoves and I see them for sale all the time.


Are the parts for these still available? I saw one on eBay but it looks like it needs some castings replaced.
LDPosse
 
Stove/Furnace Make: DS Machine, Warm Morning
Stove/Furnace Model: DS1500, WM 400-A, 523

Re: The right stove for the job....

PostBy: SteveZee On: Mon Dec 31, 2012 10:14 am

Those are midwestern stoves I believe and they were quite popular. I'm sure there are parts available if you look around and you can always cast parts if need be depending on the need and cost.
SteveZee
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Glenwood Modern Oak 116 & Glenwood 208 C Range

Re: The right stove for the job....

PostBy: nortcan On: Mon Dec 31, 2012 12:45 pm

That is right Steve, and once an antique stove is well restored, it can last longer than most of us and can be left for the next generations.
And a brand new stove can give more troubles than a good antique stove. A stove can't be better than the company who made it, and same for the warranty. I could write a long story about new stoves problems and we can read many comments about them on many forums...
So if going for an antique stove and one is handy, has time to play on it...it's OK. Or one can get a restored one from a ""well recognized"" antique shop. Not the one just making touch-up on the stove to make it ""look like new"" :mad: . Having a look at The Stovehospital website can be the best place to look at first, many infos, just take the time to read all of it.
nortcan
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Stuart,Peterson/ Grander
Stove/Furnace Model: Sunnyside/ Golden Bride

Re: The right stove for the job....

PostBy: LDPosse On: Tue Jan 01, 2013 10:46 pm

From what I've read, the Warm Morning 400 heaters make very serious amounts of heat. Are the Florence Hot Blasts on par in heat output?
LDPosse
 
Stove/Furnace Make: DS Machine, Warm Morning
Stove/Furnace Model: DS1500, WM 400-A, 523