So I started my hearth area demo

Re: So I started my hearth area demo

PostBy: Smokeyja On: Sat Dec 29, 2012 5:32 pm

joeq wrote:Ok , I do have a good table saw and I know what you mean. How do I tell the difference between blades? I know what a dato blade is but couldn't pick one out of a lot. I take it you can get different thicknesses right?

Josh, not sure what dimensions you'll be working with, but if your table saw has a good fence, you may be able to make your grooves with multiple passes on the 1/8 ' blade, and the tongues by cutting on edge, and then removing the waste by laying the board flat on each side.
As for the dato blade, there are a couple options. They come as a series of thin blades and fillers, and you stack them to the thickness you want. Or you can buy an adjustable blade, that will cut what you set it for. i had a "wobble" blade once, and it was easier to set up than a "stacked" dato, but shook the motor cause of the out of balance design. Not sure what damage they might cause when used frequently, but for a "limited type" usage only purpose, you could get away with it.


Yes I have made multiple passes before with the 1/8" blade but it tends to grab a bit to much for my liking. Maybe the dato blade or blades will be less grabby? I will have to pick up some.


Ok so I did some measuring today. I do have enough rough cut oak to put on the wall but not enough to put it on the wall as a backer and build the bookcase. Since the books will cover the backer most of the time I will probably find a piece of good wood ply and if not, find another type of rough cut board unless I can get those rough oaks again. But if I can find a good looking ply then I won't have to tongue and groove anything other than the slots in the bookcase for shelves.

On the other side by the window I will put oak slats to match the bookcase .

I imagine that if I try to buy rough cut oak it will cost a good deal.

I can double up the boards to give me 11.5" of depth on the bookcase.
Now the problem is if I go ahead and build this book case I should go ahead and wrap it around the corner and hold most of our books or whatever. That would mean I need to re think my materials and a few other things.

I think this just turned into a living room renovation :bang: :oops2:

So I have the type of stone picked out or close enough .
I'm going with one of these.
http://www.peteroseinc.com/DecorativeStone/BuildingStone.aspx
This link is broken, either the page no longer exists or there is some other issue like a typo.



The two stone pillars should be about 1' wide on either side and I am shooting for 39" clearance I between the pillars . That should be plenty for any stove I put in there right ? That would mean my hearth will be about 63" wide and 36" deep. What do you guys think of those dimensions?

Ok so maybe I can keep this under $1000?
Last edited by Smokeyja on Sun Dec 30, 2012 12:02 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: So I started my hearth area demo

PostBy: freetown fred On: Sat Dec 29, 2012 5:58 pm

The stone looks real good. Those measurements sound like a go. Funny how a lot of projects run from one room to the other ;) Yeah, even rough oak is pricey.
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Re: So I started my hearth area demo

PostBy: wsherrick On: Sat Dec 29, 2012 6:19 pm

What you want to do looks good. It won't clash with the era of the house. If you want rocks, I have as many as you want in my yard. Up here they are called, "Pennsylvania Potatoes." No grass, no topsoil. Just rocks from small to giant boulders and they're all mine. :mad:
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Re: So I started my hearth area demo

PostBy: michaelanthony On: Sat Dec 29, 2012 6:21 pm

joeq wrote:Btw for any of you carpentry experts ... What is the technical name for the tools to make a tongue and groove

Do not bother with dado's and tablesaw. If you are using soft wood, rough sawn trust me when I say this, buy a hand held laminate trimmer with a 1/4" chuck and buy a 1/2 inch rabbet bit and this is why, 1 with rough sawn the thickness will vary, 2 with rough sawn the width will vary, 3 this will drive you crazy on a table saw and can be very dangerous with lumber that is not tru to the tool. i PURPOSE TO MAKE A SHIP-LAP JOINT, this will appear like tongue and groove and will be easy to assemble. you will be fighting the tongue and groove and many will not go together because of the lumber not the woodworker. with the hand held laminate trimmer you are in control of the tool and can take you time. If you buy dimensional lumber you can still make ship lap, with either rough or finished lumber set the trimmer to remove half the thickness of the board and the bearing on the bottom of the bit will follow the wood perfectly without worry of bowed or varied shapes of the wood.I made fence for WalpoleWoodworkers (google the images) and custom cabinet shops, believe me this is the way to go, and you end up with a new tool and plenty of saw dust for the rabbits, if you have any.
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Re: So I started my hearth area demo

PostBy: Smokeyja On: Sun Dec 30, 2012 12:08 am

michaelanthony wrote:
joeq wrote:Btw for any of you carpentry experts ... What is the technical name for the tools to make a tongue and groove

Do not bother with dado's and tablesaw. If you are using soft wood, rough sawn trust me when I say this, buy a hand held laminate trimmer with a 1/4" chuck and buy a 1/2 inch rabbet bit and this is why, 1 with rough sawn the thickness will vary, 2 with rough sawn the width will vary, 3 this will drive you crazy on a table saw and can be very dangerous with lumber that is not tru to the tool. i PURPOSE TO MAKE A SHIP-LAP JOINT, this will appear like tongue and groove and will be easy to assemble. you will be fighting the tongue and groove and many will not go together because of the lumber not the woodworker. with the hand held laminate trimmer you are in control of the tool and can take you time. If you buy dimensional lumber you can still make ship lap, with either rough or finished lumber set the trimmer to remove half the thickness of the board and the bearing on the bottom of the bit will follow the wood perfectly without worry of bowed or varied shapes of the wood.I made fence for WalpoleWoodworkers (google the images) and custom cabinet shops, believe me this is the way to go, and you end up with a new tool and plenty of saw dust for the rabbits, if you have any.



How does the tool work with hard woods? I was just reading about lap joints in a book tonight! I understand your point and I am always up for new tools! Thanks for the information.

I am a little frustrated because I want to start working on something but I feel that I need to cut the floor first and lay the new hearth before anything else. I will admit I am afraid and reluctant to cut in the hardwood floor but it must be done .

Cutting into flooring without cutting into floor joist or beams... What's the best tool for the job? Circular saw? Set the depth and cut a little at a time? I might call my neighbor in the help. He's renovating a 19th century home across the street.
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Baseburners & Antiques: Glenwood #6 baseheater
Coal Size/Type: Blaschak Anthracite Nut

Re: So I started my hearth area demo

PostBy: Smokeyja On: Sun Dec 30, 2012 12:25 am

wsherrick wrote:What you want to do looks good. It won't clash with the era of the house. If you want rocks, I have as many as you want in my yard. Up here they are called, "Pennsylvania Potatoes." No grass, no topsoil. Just rocks from small to giant boulders and they're all mine. :mad:


That place I found selling the stone has Pennsylvania field stone I believe ! Thanks for the co
Compliment.


freetown fred wrote:The stone looks real good. Those measurements sound like a go. Funny how a lot of projects run from one room to the other ;) Yeah, even rough oak is pricey.


Well it looks like the stone is what's going to cost me the most . I haven't figured if the price of $2/cobble stone is better than the price/weight yet.

Stone or brick for the hearth?

Maybe I can cut the floor Monday

I have another few question about the spacing between wood (combustibles) and the stove . First , if I don't bring the stone pillars at least 1' off the wall then the side of the bookcase will slightly be exposed ... I can maybe cut the book case back to a 10" depth depending on how the stone lays. So what if the side of the bookcase was exposed slightly ? That would mean, as of now the wood would be 24" from the side of the warm morning. If I put a glenwood here then I am figuring that distance would be slightly closer. I am talking about an 1" or 2" exposed past the brick pillar.
The second question is about the mantel. What is the general code for a single wall stove pipe to be spaced from combustibles ? I want to put the mantel up 24" above the top of the stove pipe. I can't remember the fire code off the too of my head.
Smokeyja
 
Baseburners & Antiques: Glenwood #6 baseheater
Coal Size/Type: Blaschak Anthracite Nut

Re: So I started my hearth area demo

PostBy: joeq On: Sun Dec 30, 2012 12:57 am

michaelanthony wrote:
joeq wrote:Btw for any of you carpentry experts ... What is the technical name for the tools to make a tongue and groove

Do not bother with dado's and tablesaw. If you are using soft wood, rough sawn trust me when I say this, buy a hand held laminate trimmer with a 1/4" chuck and buy a 1/2 inch rabbet bit and this is why, 1 with rough sawn the thickness will vary, 2 with rough sawn the width will vary, 3 this will drive you crazy on a table saw and can be very dangerous with lumber that is not tru to the tool. i PURPOSE TO MAKE A SHIP-LAP JOINT, this will appear like tongue and groove and will be easy to assemble. you will be fighting the tongue and groove and many will not go together because of the lumber not the woodworker. with the hand held laminate trimmer you are in control of the tool and can take you time. If you buy dimensional lumber you can still make ship lap, with either rough or finished lumber set the trimmer to remove half the thickness of the board and the bearing on the bottom of the bit will follow the wood perfectly without worry of bowed or varied shapes of the wood.I made fence for WalpoleWoodworkers (google the images) and custom cabinet shops, believe me this is the way to go, and you end up with a new tool and plenty of saw dust for the rabbits, if you have any.


Ok Josh, Mike/Tony has a good point in that there are easier ways of accomplishing the look you're after with different joinery methods. And depending what your trying to accomplish for appearances sake, it's tough to make an invisible joint with rough lumber. but if you already own a table saw, it can be done if your familiar with the drawbacks and you set it up carefully. As for the laminate router, if your surface is "rough" then it will follow that same path, and give you rough results. same with the groove. I guess if you use the shiplap joint as Mike recommended, it may be easier to accomplish. But besides, if you buy this laminate tool, when do you think you'll actually use it again? I'm all for having the right tools, but as I get older, I've acquired quite a collection, that some haven't seen much action. If you're way less than 40 yrs old maybe, but something to think about if you're not as "active" as we once were. Maybe you can use the $ towards the router and find some premade lumber that already has that profile from a surplus lumber supply house, or one of those Companies involved with demoing old houses and selling the used build materials. doesn't seem like you need that much lumber.
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Re: So I started my hearth area demo

PostBy: Smokeyja On: Sun Dec 30, 2012 1:30 am

joeq wrote:
michaelanthony wrote:
joeq wrote:Btw for any of you carpentry experts ... What is the technical name for the tools to make a tongue and groove

Do not bother with dado's and tablesaw. If you are using soft wood, rough sawn trust me when I say this, buy a hand held laminate trimmer with a 1/4" chuck and buy a 1/2 inch rabbet bit and this is why, 1 with rough sawn the thickness will vary, 2 with rough sawn the width will vary, 3 this will drive you crazy on a table saw and can be very dangerous with lumber that is not tru to the tool. i PURPOSE TO MAKE A SHIP-LAP JOINT, this will appear like tongue and groove and will be easy to assemble. you will be fighting the tongue and groove and many will not go together because of the lumber not the woodworker. with the hand held laminate trimmer you are in control of the tool and can take you time. If you buy dimensional lumber you can still make ship lap, with either rough or finished lumber set the trimmer to remove half the thickness of the board and the bearing on the bottom of the bit will follow the wood perfectly without worry of bowed or varied shapes of the wood.I made fence for WalpoleWoodworkers (google the images) and custom cabinet shops, believe me this is the way to go, and you end up with a new tool and plenty of saw dust for the rabbits, if you have any.


Ok Josh, Mike/Tony has a good point in that there are easier ways of accomplishing the look you're after with different joinery methods. And depending what your trying to accomplish for appearances sake, it's tough to make an invisible joint with rough lumber. but if you already own a table saw, it can be done if your familiar with the drawbacks and you set it up carefully. As for the laminate router, if your surface is "rough" then it will follow that same path, and give you rough results. same with the groove. I guess if you use the shiplap joint as Mike recommended, it may be easier to accomplish. But besides, if you buy this laminate tool, when do you think you'll actually use it again? I'm all for having the right tools, but as I get older, I've acquired quite a collection, that some haven't seen much action. If you're way less than 40 yrs old maybe, but something to think about if you're not as "active" as we once were. Maybe you can use the $ towards the router and find some premade lumber that already has that profile from a surplus lumber supply house, or one of those Companies involved with demoing old houses and selling the used build materials. doesn't seem like you need that much lumber.


I'm always interested in new tools but money is always needed elsewhere . I have successfully laid rough cut boards without any joinery and it looked good so I may not need a joint . I'm not really worried about seamless joints I just don't want any cracks for mice to get through ;) ... Old houses have that problem . Although I haven't seen any this winter so far.

I used a little trick when using the rough cut aromatic cedar in my boys closet. I put up 1/8" plywood up first and then put the boards up incase of any slight gaps .

I don't think I'm going to use the rough cut oak as a backer so I will figure something out. The table saw doesn't like the rough cut oak anyways . I used it to rip some 1" strips out of it and it was a bear!

Here is some shots of the wood

Rough cut oak from WV
Image
The heart pine beam on the right
Image
Aromatic cedar
Image
Image
Smokeyja
 
Baseburners & Antiques: Glenwood #6 baseheater
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Re: So I started my hearth area demo

PostBy: freetown fred On: Sun Dec 30, 2012 9:11 am

I'd go with brick on the hearth to break up the stone. If that oak is good & seasoned, you can get it tight enough to keep the lil meeces out for the most part--persistent lil critters they are.I put up some oak in the stove room ( mine was not as seasoned as it should of been) & put some tar paper behind it for the same reason, painted it white to kinda match wall in case I did get any gaps.seems to be working well after 10 yrs. I don't think over heat would be an issue with the book shelves as you have them. Time for barn chores--You're gainin on it Josh ;)
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Last edited by freetown fred on Sun Dec 30, 2012 9:24 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: So I started my hearth area demo

PostBy: echos67 On: Sun Dec 30, 2012 9:22 am

Smokeyja wrote:
Well it looks like the stone is what's going to cost me the most . I haven't figured if the price of $2/cobble stone is better than the price/weight yet. Don't forget to add 10% extra for waste

Stone or brick for the hearth? Stone to match the columns

Maybe I can cut the floor Monday When I have put some tile in and had to cut the floors I use a circular saw set to the depth, I also picked a Ridgid reciprocating saw recently that works great in corners ect.

I have another few question about the spacing between wood (combustibles) and the stove . First , if I don't bring the stone pillars at least 1' off the wall then the side of the bookcase will slightly be exposed ... I can maybe cut the book case back to a 10" depth depending on how the stone lays. So what if the side of the bookcase was exposed slightly ? That would mean, as of now the wood would be 24" from the side of the warm morning. If I put a glenwood here then I am figuring that distance would be slightly closer. I am talking about an 1" or 2" exposed past the brick pillar. Bring the stone out as you measured, the Glenwoods get hot and no need to take a chance. If I remember correctly you need 36" to non combustibles.
The second question is about the mantel. What is the general code for a single wall stove pipe to be spaced from combustibles ? I want to put the mantel up 24" above the top of the stove pipe. I can't remember the fire code off the too of my head. Again from memory but I think it is 18" to combustibles. There is a great chart I found on line that tells what the fire proofing of individual materials like tile, brick ect are and what is required. I will see if I can find it again for you later today.
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Stove/Furnace Make: Glenwood No. 6.

Re: So I started my hearth area demo

PostBy: michaelanthony On: Sun Dec 30, 2012 12:15 pm

Hey Josh, If you want to get the tool for hard wood as well, get a nice 1 1/2 h.p. router with 1/2 inch chuck. I would recommend a router table but a good stable one is expensive and it looks like you are pretty handy and could build a nice strong router table from various web sites and plans. You have wood, a nice chunk,2' x 3'piece of laminate counter top would make an excellent router table,( I have a piece that was a sink cut out ) with a 2" hole centered and the router secured from under with appropriate base--nice and beefy. ....and yes a circular saw will cut the floor as you like. Drill a hole big enough for a tape measure and check your thickness and go a little more, it's ok if you nibble the joist a hair. I use old blades for this in case I encounter any nails and put masking tape under the base of the circular saw to minimize scratches to the good part of the floor.
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Re: So I started my hearth area demo

PostBy: Smokeyja On: Sun Dec 30, 2012 12:23 pm

freetown fred wrote:I'd go with brick on the hearth to break up the stone. If that oak is good & seasoned, you can get it tight enough to keep the lil meeces out for the most part--persistent lil critters they are.I put up some oak in the stove room ( mine was not as seasoned as it should of been) & put some tar paper behind it for the same reason, painted it white to kinda match wall in case I did get any gaps.seems to be working well after 10 yrs. I don't think over heat would be an issue with the book shelves as you have them. Time for barn chores--You're gainin on it Josh ;)


Fred, the oak I have is seasoned well over 5 years now and how you put your boards is much like part of my house.
Image
Image
Excuse the mess I have been renovating for the past 2 years and moving stuff back and forth.

echos67 wrote:
Smokeyja wrote:
Well it looks like the stone is what's going to cost me the most . I haven't figured if the price of $2/cobble stone is better than the price/weight yet. Don't forget to add 10% extra for waste

Stone or brick for the hearth? Stone to match the columns

Maybe I can cut the floor Monday When I have put some tile in and had to cut the floors I use a circular saw set to the depth, I also picked a Ridgid reciprocating saw recently that works great in corners ect.

I have another few question about the spacing between wood (combustibles) and the stove . First , if I don't bring the stone pillars at least 1' off the wall then the side of the bookcase will slightly be exposed ... I can maybe cut the book case back to a 10" depth depending on how the stone lays. So what if the side of the bookcase was exposed slightly ? That would mean, as of now the wood would be 24" from the side of the warm morning. If I put a glenwood here then I am figuring that distance would be slightly closer. I am talking about an 1" or 2" exposed past the brick pillar. Bring the stone out as you measured, the Glenwoods get hot and no need to take a chance. If I remember correctly you need 36" to non combustibles.
The second question is about the mantel. What is the general code for a single wall stove pipe to be spaced from combustibles ? I want to put the mantel up 24" above the top of the stove pipe. I can't remember the fire code off the too of my head. Again from memory but I think it is 18" to combustibles. There is a great chart I found on line that tells what the fire proofing of individual materials like tile, brick ect are and what is required. I will see if I can find it again for you later today.


Thanks for the confirmation on the circular saw and the input.
I did some reading and it is 36" clearance from combustibles but I can cut that down to 12" with a piece of sheet metal spaced 1" off. What I will actually do is put the mantel at 24" and put a piece of 3/16" plate underneath spaced 1" off the bottom. I am thinking of breaking the edges up 1" and then drilling a series of holes across the front and sides for the airflow and then facing them with copper and iron rivets . Or I could built a heat shield directly above the stove pipe, spaced 1" up and curved which should create the same effect I would think. I have a few tricks up my sleeve to meet that code.

On the glenwood, how far does the actuall stove stand from the back wall? I am trying to visualize where it will sit when I buy one. Maybe you could give me the width and height on the 6 ?
Smokeyja
 
Baseburners & Antiques: Glenwood #6 baseheater
Coal Size/Type: Blaschak Anthracite Nut

Re: So I started my hearth area demo

PostBy: Smokeyja On: Sun Dec 30, 2012 12:29 pm

michaelanthony wrote:Hey Josh, If you want to get the tool for hard wood as well, get a nice 1 1/2 h.p. router with 1/2 inch chuck. I would recommend a router table but a good stable one is expensive and it looks like you are pretty handy and could build a nice strong router table from various web sites and plans. You have wood, a nice chunk,2' x 3'piece of laminate counter top would make an excellent router table,( I have a piece that was a sink cut out ) with a 2" hole centered and the router secured from under with appropriate base--nice and beefy. ....and yes a circular saw will cut the floor as you like. Drill a hole big enough for a tape measure and check your thickness and go a little more, it's ok if you nibble the joist a hair. I use old blades for this in case I encounter any nails and put masking tape under the base of the circular saw to minimize scratches to the good part of the floor.


I do have a good beefy router . The router table idea sounds great! I just happen to have some beefy chunks of wood I can make a top out of. I didn't really think of making a table out of it but that would make life easier.
Smokeyja
 
Baseburners & Antiques: Glenwood #6 baseheater
Coal Size/Type: Blaschak Anthracite Nut

Re: So I started my hearth area demo

PostBy: michaelanthony On: Sun Dec 30, 2012 12:53 pm

Smokeyja wrote:
I do have a good beefy router . The router table idea sounds great! I just happen to have some beefy chunks of wood I can make a top out of. I didn't really think of making a table out of it but that would make life easier.

...excellent, snap a chalk line where ever you want your fence for the router table and double up on it. The part of the fence after the router bit can be a hair thinner buy sanding down .010 or so and take the sharp vertical edge of that board (right near the router bit) right off. The reason I say double up on the guide fence is because it is usually a sacrificial fence that gets dinged and adjusted many times for various duties.
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Re: So I started my hearth area demo

PostBy: joeq On: Sun Dec 30, 2012 2:45 pm

Holding out on us, aye Josh? Forgot to mention you already owned a big router? where do you keep it? Next to your mortising machine? I should be asking you for advice.
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