Am I REALLY Burning Too Hot? (PICS)

Re: Am I REALLY Burning Too Hot? (PICS)

PostBy: VigIIPeaBurner On: Fri Dec 28, 2012 12:59 pm

jjs777_fzr wrote:I'm skeptical of the magnetic temp reading that high. By chance can you pickup a laser pointed temp gun ? I use the centech model from HF and it serves me very well. It appears dead accurate - at least when aimed at a pot of boiling water where it measures 211-212F.
I'd be surprised to see the stove reading 700F and the vent pipe reading 100F as shown in the pics. (I know I know efficiency but that's bordering crazy).


Agree on the 100*F stove pipe temp. IIRC, the thermometers were to be placed on the side of a vertical pipe run, not the side of a horizontal pipe run. There is a lot of air wash and little contact for the thermometer to read accurately placed as shown on the side of a horizontal pipe run.

Chief, please re-position the mag thermometer onto the top of your stove pipe's horizontal run and let us know what the side vs top readings are. My guess is it will add ~ 70 +/- *F.
VigIIPeaBurner
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Furnace: Keystoker Koker
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Vermont Casting Vigilant II 2310
Other Heating: #2 Oil Furnace

Re: Am I REALLY Burning Too Hot? (PICS)

PostBy: VigIIPeaBurner On: Fri Dec 28, 2012 1:10 pm

KLook wrote:I have to ask what the black iron pipe running down the wall and plugged behind the stove is. :?

Kevin


Excelent catch KLook :o :shock: Not a good idea to have a charged gas line anywhere near another open flame - like in a coal stove.

Chief, if that black iron pipe is still charged with LP/Nat gas, consider disconnecting it where it taps into the feed line and removing it from the room. At least cap off the feed line where that pipe taps into the feed. If you do that, purge that line with air backwards toward the other end.
VigIIPeaBurner
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Furnace: Keystoker Koker
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Vermont Casting Vigilant II 2310
Other Heating: #2 Oil Furnace

Re: Am I REALLY Burning Too Hot? (PICS)

PostBy: mozz On: Fri Dec 28, 2012 6:07 pm

I'm fairly sure he used to have a NG stove there a few years back. Joe, i can i bring in a infared thermometer to work if you want to borrow one, let me know.
mozz
 
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Re: Am I REALLY Burning Too Hot? (PICS)

PostBy: Chiefcamper On: Sat Dec 29, 2012 1:12 am

I've already tried moving the thermometer from the side of that section of pipe to the top. It made little difference.

Now I put it in front, about 1/2 way up the vertical 6" run. Stove is 600 and pipe is 150. I can feel the difference just by touching the pipe w my fingers. Neither position burns me but Yeah, the smaller vertical run feels and measures hotter.

Like Jaq said, it's probably time to start fooling a little w/ the damper. (only when I'm home) I have quite a few CO detectors in the house. But those detectors won't be any help to me if anyone else comes home and the dog is stiff. It would be awhile before I lived that one down :)

Yeah Mozz I'd like to give the laser pointer a shot,

Thanks.

Joe
Chiefcamper
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Heat N Glo
Stove/Furnace Model: Townsend II

Re: Am I REALLY Burning Too Hot? (PICS)

PostBy: dcrane On: Sat Dec 29, 2012 7:16 am

wow....this Godin Petit looks to be in great condition! Like a work of art by a fine French woman! I'd move that therm. towards the top of the unit as opposed to the bottom of the coal bed (where it becomes ash). The Godin's are notorious for easily seeing an overburn (they are not heavy duty and they have the thinnest gauge metal used on any coal stove i've ever tested), maybe the coal in Europe differs from the quality stuff we are spoiled by from Penn :D . You can easily see discoloration at a rapid pace in the upper half of the unit when overfired (you will see the color of the unit turn whitish in the upper half). This unit seems to be in incredible shape (maybe it was merely used as decoration by the previous owner and not as a heat source?)

As others have suggested...You SERIOUSLY NEED to check that gas line out, with the gas log in place it has safety nets/shut offs and limits of heat output... you dont have that with the coal stove, yet this gas line sits their just waiting for the opportunity to reeek havok if bad things ever happened!
dcrane
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Crane 404

Re: Am I REALLY Burning Too Hot? (PICS)

PostBy: KaptJaq On: Sat Dec 29, 2012 10:40 am

dcrane wrote:wow....this Godin Petit looks to be in great condition! Like a work of art by a fine French woman! I'd move that therm. towards the top of the unit as opposed to the bottom of the coal bed (where it becomes ash). The Godin's are notorious for easily seeing an overburn (they are not heavy duty and they have the thinnest gauge metal used on any coal stove i've ever tested), maybe the coal in Europe differs from the quality stuff we are spoiled by from Penn :D . You can easily see discoloration at a rapid pace in the upper half of the unit when overfired (you will see the color of the unit turn whitish in the upper half). This unit seems to be in incredible shape (maybe it was merely used as decoration by the previous owner and not as a heat source?)


Hi DCrane,

Yes, that stove is mint. It appears to have been refurbished before he acquired it. It is also top-of-the-line. Every piece is enameled.

The outer skin of the Godin's is sheet metal but it is wrapped around 1.25" refractory brick. I have worked on a number of Godins. Each skin that has been replaced was due poor maintenance and rusting out. The burning coal slowly shifts down to the area behind the door and just above the shaker. The hottest point in the stove is usually just above the door where the air enters the coal bed. The part that fails most often is the door lintel. It is considered sacrificial and almost every hardware store in France carries them . If the stoves are overheated the door frame and its internal cast components are usually the first to go. By the time the skin goes the fire brick are usually shot also.

If you see my avatar, the center of the cylinder is slightly gray. (shows up more with the flash than in person). Each year I put a layer of stove black . By the end of the season the burn area is a little lighter than the rest of the barrel. When the stove is burning this area hovers around 700 degrees. This stove has been in use since 1978, the only part that has been changed is the lintel.

Yes, the various coals available in France do not burn as hot as Pennsylvania Anthracite. I have seen people get their stoves up to a glow anyway. I have also seen 100 year old Godins still burning every day.

KaptJaq
KaptJaq
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Godin 3721 Le Grand Rond
Coal Size/Type: Anthracite Nut

Re: Am I REALLY Burning Too Hot? (PICS)

PostBy: Chiefcamper On: Sun Dec 30, 2012 3:10 pm

KaptJaq wrote:
dcrane wrote:wow....this Godin Petit looks to be in great condition! Like a work of art by a fine French woman! I'd move that therm. towards the top of the unit as opposed to the bottom of the coal bed (where it becomes ash). The Godin's are notorious for easily seeing an overburn (they are not heavy duty and they have the thinnest gauge metal used on any coal stove i've ever tested), maybe the coal in Europe differs from the quality stuff we are spoiled by from Penn :D . You can easily see discoloration at a rapid pace in the upper half of the unit when overfired (you will see the color of the unit turn whitish in the upper half). This unit seems to be in incredible shape (maybe it was merely used as decoration by the previous owner and not as a heat source?)


Hi DCrane,

Yes, that stove is mint. It appears to have been refurbished before he acquired it. It is also top-of-the-line. Every piece is enameled.

The outer skin of the Godin's is sheet metal but it is wrapped around 1.25" refractory brick. I have worked on a number of Godins. Each skin that has been replaced was due poor maintenance and rusting out. The burning coal slowly shifts down to the area behind the door and just above the shaker. The hottest point in the stove is usually just above the door where the air enters the coal bed. The part that fails most often is the door lintel. It is considered sacrificial and almost every hardware store in France carries them . If the stoves are overheated the door frame and its internal cast components are usually the first to go. By the time the skin goes the fire brick are usually shot also.

If you see my avatar, the center of the cylinder is slightly gray. (shows up more with the flash than in person). Each year I put a layer of stove black . By the end of the season the burn area is a little lighter than the rest of the barrel. When the stove is burning this area hovers around 700 degrees. This stove has been in use since 1978, the only part that has been changed is the lintel.

Yes, the various coals available in France do not burn as hot as Pennsylvania Anthracite. I have seen people get their stoves up to a glow anyway. I have also seen 100 year old Godins still burning every day.

KaptJaq



Thanks for the compliments and advice guys, just trying to respond to some comments here:

Yes Jaq, the thimble is 8" round and at least 3 ft long. It empties into an external clay lined chimney 7X7. The chimney is about 20 ft tall.

What you said about the age and refurb makes sense, however the stove was used after the refurb. The bricks were pitted around the center of the barrel and the lintel was warped pretty bad. I replaced the lintel last year (not the bricks) and I can already see it starting to warp again. Maybe next time it's replaced I'll try to keep the temps down a bit, but as you said, I've already suspected that this part is almost expected to fail over time.

QUESTION????? If the bricks are pitted but intact is it time to order new ones?

Changing the location of the thermometer ( upwards in increments) on the stove only gives lower and lower readings.

Having the thermometer on 1/2 way up the vertical 6" has shown different results. Yesterday the stove hadn"t been tended in over 18 hours. Stove was 200, cast lid 700, pipe was 250. Today after 12 hours unattended the stove was 550 and the pipe was 400. yeah it was 80 degrees in the basement :)

As the coal burns up and catches, it must be breathing more and hotter, perhaps this is where the damper will help. Tonight before I go to sleep I'll damp it maybe 45 degrees or more and see what it's like in the morning. Once shaken down and loaded, everything settles back in with the stove about 650 and the pipe at 100. This is at 1.25 turns out on the knob.

That line didn't bother me much to be honest. Ignorance I'll admit. It has a shutoff that you can see, other than that it's the main shutoff in the other half of the basement. So I can remove that line all the way back to the other half of the basement but that's it. At that point other things are tapping off it like the upstairs cookstove etc. It runs inside the covered Ibeam that runs the width of the house. I CAN take it out.

Now there is another line just like it running in the opposite side of that I Beam that runs to the same wall, but up through the ceiling to feed a Rennai direct vent wall heater that pretty much heats my upstairs. There is not much I can do about that line, but at least it's not heading downwards and alongside the coal stove.

Guess I'm gonna have to shut the stove down and twist that line apart although I can tell you I'm not in a huge hurry to shut it down. But I know you guys are right and if I don't it could be disaterous. I don't even know what it would take for that pipe to get hot enough to explode, but I know it's a lot less than what coal burns at. Wait a minute. I could possible shut the main off and open a bunch of windows, I'll have to ponder this and probably end up listening to you guys telling me that's not such a good idea :)

Feeling Humble Now :oops:

Joe
Chiefcamper
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Heat N Glo
Stove/Furnace Model: Townsend II

Re: Am I REALLY Burning Too Hot? (PICS)

PostBy: JimVanCool82 On: Sun Dec 30, 2012 11:43 pm

How close is the gas line To This Coal Stove on this Model??
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Stove/Furnace Make: Monitor MPI
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Re: Am I REALLY Burning Too Hot? (PICS)

PostBy: Lightning On: Mon Dec 31, 2012 4:31 am

Chiefcamper wrote: I don't even know what it would take for that pipe to get hot enough to explode, but I know it's a lot less than what coal burns at.

In order for the pipe to just explode from radiant heat, there would need to be oxygen in it with the natural gas and the pipe would need to reach flash point temperature.

I think the bigger concern is the possibility of it leaking near an open flame.. If you could disconnect it at the other end and flush any remaining NG out of it, I think that would be plenty of precaution :D

Nice stove man!! :verycool:
Lightning
 
Hand Fed Coal Furnace: Clayton 1537G
Coal Size/Type: Nut Size / White Ash

Re: Am I REALLY Burning Too Hot? (PICS)

PostBy: JimVanCool82 On: Mon Dec 31, 2012 6:51 pm

If the gas line was connected to a gas log set in a fireplace "vented or unvented"
Would that not be an open flame? Ok What if there was a leak
My gas stove has 6 open flames.
It has never burst into flames.
By the time that pipe got hot enough there would be no house left
Burning coal is like having 30lbs of Magma you can't control if it gets away its gone
Try turning the coal fire off in an instant
Can a CO Detector shut down a wood/coal stove?
What about Oil Stoves I know oil now is $$$ now
But soon all energy will be priced per btu
Safety? Not coal or wood for sure, Sorry I know this form is for burning wood/coal
I had a coal stoker all my life a Van Wert And a Simplex They made todays stoves look like a joke
Would I want one Now, NO. However if all went to hell I would burn Wood in a very small stove.
Coal Ash Dust Yum Yum Great for my family and there lungs!!
JimVanCool82
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Monitor MPI
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Re: Am I REALLY Burning Too Hot? (PICS)

PostBy: Chiefcamper On: Mon Dec 31, 2012 7:12 pm

That ad reads: "Recipe For Happiness"

Perhaps it should read: "Recipe For Disaster"



:D :D :D :D :D
Chiefcamper
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Heat N Glo
Stove/Furnace Model: Townsend II

Re: Am I REALLY Burning Too Hot? (PICS)

PostBy: JimVanCool82 On: Mon Dec 31, 2012 7:57 pm

Centralia, Pennsylvania
See how easy and safe Coal is Very easy to put out Yes?
JimVanCool82
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Monitor MPI
Stove/Furnace Model: 422

Re: Am I REALLY Burning Too Hot? (PICS)

PostBy: Chiefcamper On: Tue Jan 01, 2013 4:05 am

JimVanCool82 wrote:Centralia, Pennsylvania
See how easy and safe Coal is Very easy to put out Yes?



Who Cares? No one lives there anyway. :D
Chiefcamper
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Heat N Glo
Stove/Furnace Model: Townsend II

Re: Am I REALLY Burning Too Hot? (PICS)

PostBy: Chiefcamper On: Sun Jan 20, 2013 2:38 pm

Just wanted to thank Mozz for the use of his heat gun.

After using it a week or two, i found that the reads on the gun were pretty close to the temps on the spring thermometers.

Moving the spring thermometer to the mid horizontal reads about 50 degrees hotter, and so the temp is about 150.

As far as the stove, if I get a read of 600 in front, above the door with the magnetic spring, I can usually find a spot close to that, reading the same, with the gun. The rear of the stove could read as much as 100 degrees hotter at the same height. The height just above the door is the warmest area of the stove, all the way around. After using the gun every day, I'm very confident that the cheapo magnetic spring thermometers are good enough. Not that they are reading perfectly, but from their read I know what's going on.

Would have kept the gun a little longer, but after a week the dog stopped chasing the laser and just stood there watching the gun in my hand LOL.

The gun is a really cool tool. Thinking about getting one.

Joe
Chiefcamper
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Heat N Glo
Stove/Furnace Model: Townsend II

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