Quieter is better...

Re: Quieter is better...

PostBy: Richard S. On: Thu Dec 13, 2007 7:38 am

They do cost more but so does a Cadillac compared to family car, the Cadillac is going to get you to the store just like any car but its certainly going to be nicer ride. ;)

Most stokers are going to last decades, as far as the large stoker boilers if you keep them well maintained you're looking at possibly half a century. Ours has been running since the mid eighties, a similar but smaller model has been in my Grandmothers house since the mid seventies. Neither has had any major breakdowns, basic stuff that just wears out like pumps and motors. By the looks of it they can both run indefinitely for a long way into the future.

I really depends on your needs and budget which is going to be different for everyone.
Richard S.
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Van Wert VA1200
Coal Size/Type: Buckwheat/Anthracite

Re: Quieter is better...

PostBy: av8r On: Thu Dec 13, 2007 9:28 am

Devil5052 wrote:I have never owned anything but hand fired stoves & wondered about maybe getting a stoker if & when I ever replace my Harman TLC-2000. The idea that a stoker:
1.Costs $$$ to run
2.Can't run during a power failure .
3.Makes continual noise.
4. Is a complcated machine much more prone to require maintenece.
......Is enough to deter me from ever considering one if the only benefit is longer burn times. Since I am using a blower fan (this year after taking this forum's advice) I am able to burn lower temp fires & get more heat & only shake the stove down once a day. Am I missing a benefit from a stoker that isn't apparent to me?


I went around this question as well...for the last 2 years. I decided on the stoker because:

It's simple to operate. Dump coal in, heat comes out.

Can you control a hand-fired unit with a thermostat? I honestly don't know the answer. Mine works like a regular furnace. Set it and forget it.

My wife can be taught to fill it and empty it without her feeling uncomfortable with shaking the fire out on a hand fired.

They're actually incredibly simplistic. It's a big metal box with 2 or 3 electric motors that either run a fan or rotate the shaft...very slowly. Other than the grate there isn't much there I can't fix or fabricate myself.

Noise..well..ya...but if you ever get the chance, stop by my home and listen to mine. It's already making about 1/2 the noise it did 2 days ago and within a week or so I'll have that cut by half again. I'll probably spend all of $50 to do it.

Power outages...well...yes, we do get a few. I have 2 deep cycle batteries and an inverter that will buy me up to 2 days run time. We've never lost power for more than 12 hours in the 12 years I've lived in this house. That being said, this is the perfect reason for me to buy that little Honda inverter generator I've been eyeing for 2 years....and yes, my wife knows how I work...accessories are part of the fun.

So, in the end, I think stokers are about convenience. The few hand-fired units I looked at were as much or more than my LL hearth and honestly, I don't know anyone burning a hand-fired unit to ask how much is involved, but I've read a lot on here that makes me think there is a learning curve to them. Not that it's a bad thing, but I prefer the convenience a stoker buys me. Oh...and if I'm going to lose power for a long time, I can have that thing out of my fireplace and build a nice wood fire in about 30 minutes. Advantage: hearth model stoker.

Disclaimer is that I'm a complete n00b at coal related heat so everything I posted here could be completely and utterly wrong....or not! :P
Last edited by av8r on Thu Dec 13, 2007 9:35 am, edited 1 time in total.
av8r
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Furnace: Leisure Line Hearth with twin turbos (sounds like it)
Stove/Furnace Make: Leisure Line
Stove/Furnace Model: Hearth model with twin turbos

Re: Quieter is better...

PostBy: av8r On: Thu Dec 13, 2007 9:34 am

Devil5052 wrote:
Richard S. wrote:Devil5052 , I think you need to consider it on case by case basis. If for example I was buying one for supplementary heat and I lived in the middle of no where hand-fired is the no brainer. On the other hand stoker all the way if you're in town like me, your concerns are valid but except for the power part are pretty much not that big a deal.


They also cost alot more $$$ to buy, don't they? I just don't see the apeal.

The Hitzer I looked at was hand-fired and $500 more than what I paid for my LL.
av8r
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Furnace: Leisure Line Hearth with twin turbos (sounds like it)
Stove/Furnace Make: Leisure Line
Stove/Furnace Model: Hearth model with twin turbos


Re: Quieter is better...

PostBy: spc On: Thu Dec 13, 2007 10:00 am

Back on point, the pioneer convection blower sits very low to the floor if you add a gasket it may hit the floor which will create more noise. The dealer I bought my stove from added a fiberglass rope gasket but did raise the stove off the floor. Some have have moved the blower (basement under stove) & ducted it back to stove. And if you can duct a return air line from your furthest room to the blower intake you have the best install IMO.
spc
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Leisure Line
Stove/Furnace Model: Pioneer

Re: Quieter is better...

PostBy: av8r On: Thu Dec 13, 2007 10:12 am

spc wrote:Back on point, the pioneer convection blower sits very low to the floor if you add a gasket it may hit the floor which will create more noise. The dealer I bought my stove from added a fiberglass rope gasket but did raise the stove off the floor. Some have have moved the blower (basement under stove) & ducted it back to stove.

Thanks for reeling us in...

My hearth has a Fasco A212 blower. http://www.amazon.com/Centrifugal-Blowe ... B000BUGFKS
Little common shaft blower with 2 small squirrel cage fans on either side. The motor spins at up to 3000 rpm which, I believe, is creating too much turbulence at the fan tips and more noise than I'm willing to live with (you may find it's fine in your install). I'm going to use a 265 or 460 CFM blower that spins at 1400 rpm and duct the fan into the stove with a "Y" adapter and large diameter flex. This should give me more usable CFM with greatly reduced turbulence and noise. I'll use a rheostat to high limit the fan to further adjust the noise level. Should be pretty simple and I think very effective.

I will post pics and hopefully db meter readings before and after.
av8r
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Furnace: Leisure Line Hearth with twin turbos (sounds like it)
Stove/Furnace Make: Leisure Line
Stove/Furnace Model: Hearth model with twin turbos

Re: Quieter is better...

PostBy: spc On: Thu Dec 13, 2007 10:23 am

The pioneer uses this style, may not be exact model.
http://www.amazon.com/Centrifugal-Blowe ... 02&sr=1-23
Can you stuff the blower into the fireplace & duct to stove? Box the blower in with sound deadening material.
spc
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Leisure Line
Stove/Furnace Model: Pioneer

Re: Quieter is better...

PostBy: av8r On: Thu Dec 13, 2007 10:35 am

spc wrote:The pioneer uses this style, may not be exact model.
http://www.amazon.com/Centrifugal-Blowe ... 02&sr=1-23

That's right. I'm trying to find something at least 265 CFM with the slowest shaft speed and largest fan (within reason) to eliminate as much noise as possible from the motor side. I'll duct the intake with insulated flex to relocate and reduce the intake noise as well.

I think there is a lot of room for improvement here, but I'm fortunate that I have a large firebox to hide everything in. For freestanding applications I can envision an sound insulated box to hold the blowers which could be positioned pretty much anywhere in a room. Pretty it up some and use it as a place to put a decorative coal hod and it would "disappear"
av8r
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Furnace: Leisure Line Hearth with twin turbos (sounds like it)
Stove/Furnace Make: Leisure Line
Stove/Furnace Model: Hearth model with twin turbos

Re: Quieter is better...

PostBy: Ed.A On: Thu Dec 13, 2007 9:17 pm

[quote="av8r
The Hitzer I looked at was hand-fired and $500 more than what I paid for my LL.[/quote]

Well in my case not exactly, but damn near.
The more stores I visited the more I kept hearing "Stoker"....you'll never go back to a shaker if you own a stoker yada yada yada.

I'm wicked happy with my Alaska, once I placed the outside air intake to the stove it cut down the noise A-LOT.
Many happy returns, Cold Air that is
Ed.A
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: Alaska Channing III/ '94 Stoker II
Coal Size/Type: Rice

Re: Quieter is better...

PostBy: av8r On: Thu Dec 13, 2007 9:22 pm

Ed.A wrote:[quote="av8r
The Hitzer I looked at was hand-fired and $500 more than what I paid for my LL.


Well in my case not exactly, but damn near.
The more stores I visited the more I kept hearing "Stoker"....you'll never go back to a shaker if you own a stoker yada yada yada.

I'm wicked happy with my Alaska, once I placed the outside air intake to the stove it cut down the noise A-LOT.
Many happy returns, Cold Air that is[/quote]
Can you post a pic of what you did?
av8r
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Furnace: Leisure Line Hearth with twin turbos (sounds like it)
Stove/Furnace Make: Leisure Line
Stove/Furnace Model: Hearth model with twin turbos

Re: Quieter is better...

PostBy: Ed.A On: Thu Dec 13, 2007 9:24 pm

av8r wrote:
Ed.A wrote:[quote="av8r
The Hitzer I looked at was hand-fired and $500 more than what I paid for my LL.


Well in my case not exactly, but damn near.
The more stores I visited the more I kept hearing "Stoker"....you'll never go back to a shaker if you own a stoker yada yada yada.

I'm wicked happy with my Alaska, once I placed the outside air intake to the stove it cut down the noise A-LOT.
Many happy returns, Cold Air that is

Can you post a pic of what you did?[/quote]

Click on the link I provided, it shows a pic of my set-up.
Ed.A
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: Alaska Channing III/ '94 Stoker II
Coal Size/Type: Rice

Re: Quieter is better...

PostBy: av8r On: Thu Dec 13, 2007 9:40 pm

Duh....I'm half asleep I guess...tired from plowing and shoveling.

Thanks
av8r
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Furnace: Leisure Line Hearth with twin turbos (sounds like it)
Stove/Furnace Make: Leisure Line
Stove/Furnace Model: Hearth model with twin turbos

Re: Quieter is better...

PostBy: Ed.A On: Thu Dec 13, 2007 10:02 pm

av8r wrote:Duh....I'm half asleep I guess...tired from plowing and shoveling.

Thanks


I hear ya, the snow just stopped a minute ago here...yes!
Ed.A
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: Alaska Channing III/ '94 Stoker II
Coal Size/Type: Rice

Re: Quieter is better...

PostBy: e.alleg On: Fri Dec 14, 2007 1:07 pm

Richard S. wrote:They do cost more but so does a Cadillac compared to family car, the Cadillac is going to get you to the store just like any car but its certainly going to be nicer ride. ;) .


I think of it as the difference between a bicycle, motorcycle, and a car.
e.alleg
 
Stove/Furnace Make: EFM
Stove/Furnace Model: 520

Re: Quieter is better...

PostBy: Grinder On: Sat Dec 15, 2007 8:56 am

av8r wrote:
Leisure Line wrote:Jamie, great job. I'm glad you posted the pics. That's good to pass along.
Jerry


Thanks, Jerry. I'll let you know how I make out with the convection fan. I think I can make that one *much* quieter as well. You could add a "low noise" kit to your lineup....maybe put a few more pennies in the bank!

What do you think about using a high temp silicone RTV that is allowed to skin over on the combustion blower flange to help isolate it from the stove body? I figure it can't hurt and might reduce the resonance created by that piece.


I like this idea, as my convection fan can get pretty noisy. Is 500 degree silicone ( the highest temp I've seen) going
to be sufficient?
Grinder
 
Stove/Furnace Make: KeyStoker
Stove/Furnace Model: 90

Re: Quieter is better...

PostBy: av8r On: Sat Dec 15, 2007 3:50 pm

Grinder wrote:
av8r wrote:
Leisure Line wrote:Jamie, great job. I'm glad you posted the pics. That's good to pass along.
Jerry


Thanks, Jerry. I'll let you know how I make out with the convection fan. I think I can make that one *much* quieter as well. You could add a "low noise" kit to your lineup....maybe put a few more pennies in the bank!

What do you think about using a high temp silicone RTV that is allowed to skin over on the combustion blower flange to help isolate it from the stove body? I figure it can't hurt and might reduce the resonance created by that piece.


I like this idea, as my convection fan can get pretty noisy. Is 500 degree silicone ( the highest temp I've seen) going
to be sufficient?


I'm sure it will be. While I can't hold my hand on my combustion fan flange, I can touch it briefly. Might be 200-250 I'd guess. I'm going to use RTV Black high temp on mine. I'll have to let the fire go out as I want to let the silicone partially cure on the flange before I reattach it. I want it to act as a damper, not a seal so I won't crank the bolts down very tight either.

I'm thinking that doing something like this on the stoker motor also. Mine is louder than my buddie's Alaska. His just kind of ticks, mine sounds more like it's grinding, but I think that's just due to the resonance being setup by all that sheet metal on the stove so a little isolation should make a huge difference there as well.
av8r
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Furnace: Leisure Line Hearth with twin turbos (sounds like it)
Stove/Furnace Make: Leisure Line
Stove/Furnace Model: Hearth model with twin turbos