The repeal of the Second Amendment, could it be done by ...

If it was going to happen at any time in our history, it's right now. All the wrong people are in place ...

RWalker I would be willing to bet that you were never in the military. Not the military I was a part of. We were trained to follow orders. We were not trained to think about whether or not it impacted us, our family's or any other personal position. We were trained not to interpret them in any way, shape, or form period. It's pretty naive to think that the military wouldn't act if called on to do so.

No I wasn't. Medical condition kept me out. However, I have several friends who were and some are still active. Every one of them values their families life over the life of someone they do not know. If the SHTF on our soil, every one of them would ensure the safety of their own families and not run off to fight against their own kind. Leaving your family behind to go to another country to fight is one thing, facing a fight on your own soil and kissing your wife and babies good bye while your own neighborhood is burning is a whole different ball game. If you value your ORDERS over your family, I feel for your wife and kids.

And I am not speaking about gun control. I could care less about gun control laws, I dont own any guns anymore. They all fell apart and I lost the pieces...

I am speaking of a collapse of the American dollar. That will cause the chaos, not some silly gun law. No food, no water, no electricity, that will cause it. Military and law enforcement arent going to run out and patrol the streets, they are going to make sure their family is safe when this happens.

Will it happen in our lifetime? I dont know. Maybe in our children's or grandchildren's. Our job is to make sure our blood lines are prepared to face it.

What happens when you pull into Wal-mart and there is no food on the shelf?

Keep thinking it cant happen as we print more and more money that has no backing to it...

Rwalker wrote:Keep thinking it cant happen as we print more and more money that has no backing to it...

Ya know some people might just like having a wallet stuffed with thousand dollar bills. If Zimbabwe can do it why can't we?

Rwalker wrote: If you value your ORDERS over your family, I feel for your wife and kids. .

People like that are what make a "good soldier". That's the type of people the rest of us need to worry about.

We've already heard "I was only following orders" once in the last century or so. There's no reason to believe it can't happen again.

I know people like to think that Americans represent the highest evolution of the human species, but it just isn't true.

franco b wrote:

Rwalker wrote:Keep thinking it cant happen as we print more and more money that has no backing to it...

Ya know some people might just like having a wallet stuffed with thousand dollar bills. If Zimbabwe can do it why can't we?

Except in Zimbabwe, no one would even stop to pick up a thousand dollar note. It would mean less to them than you stopping to pick up a penny.

Rwalker wrote:

RWalker I would be willing to bet that you were never in the military. Not the military I was a part of. We were trained to follow orders. We were not trained to think about whether or not it impacted us, our family's or any other personal position. We were trained not to interpret them in any way, shape, or form period. It's pretty naive to think that the military wouldn't act if called on to do so.

No I wasn't. Medical condition kept me out. However, I have several friends who were and some are still active. Every one of them values their families life over the life of someone they do not know. If the SHTF on our soil, every one of them would ensure the safety of their own families and not run off to fight against their own kind. Leaving your family behind to go to another country to fight is one thing, facing a fight on your own soil and kissing your wife and babies good bye while your own neighborhood is burning is a whole different ball game. If you value your ORDERS over your family, I feel for your wife and kids.

And I am not speaking about gun control. I could care less about gun control laws, I dont own any guns anymore. They all fell apart and I lost the pieces...

I am speaking of a collapse of the American dollar. That will cause the chaos, not some silly gun law. No food, no water, no electricity, that will cause it. Military and law enforcement arent going to run out and patrol the streets, they are going to make sure their family is safe when this happens.

Will it happen in our lifetime? I dont know. Maybe in our children's or grandchildren's. Our job is to make sure our blood lines are prepared to face it.

What happens when you pull into Wal-mart and there is no food on the shelf?

Keep thinking it cant happen as we print more and more money that has no backing to it...

As far as your attitude on the military, it's probably a good thing that you didn't serve. Imagine if everyone thought the way you do? Orders are only to be followed if they don't conflict with your personal position. We wouldn't have much of a military. Fortunately, it doesn't work that way for the majority of soldiers. You hope your Officers are making sound decisions, but that's about it. It doesn't matter where you are, you do your job. I understand the impulse to say that it would be different if we were in our own Country fighting against our own people but I'll remind you that about 150 years ago, we had one of the bloodiest conflicts in our history. I was called The Civil War.

That said, obviously it would take an extreme event and the use of military would only happen if others provoked a situation through violence. So who or what would the military be protecting the population from? That's the real question isn't it.

You are probably right that some such chaos may happen in time. It's no revelation. It has happened to cultures and civilizations since the dawn of time. I don't see it happening any time soon though. As long as the population continues to climb at the current rates or more, we will head toward some catastrophic correction. Simply put, there are too many people on the planet. We've passed the point of being able to maintain or sustain. There are just not enough resources or food to maintain the growth. It's not just human's although we have a much greater impact. All species go through this "cycle". Remove wolves, the deer population gets out of control. Remove cod fish and you've got a ton of lobsters until they cannot sustain and starve or die off through disease, etc... That's just the balance of nature. In our case though, we are the top of the food chain and thus have far greater impact on the ecology.

I do think that what you are doing with your family is commendable. People forget that not long ago there were no supermarkets and we take allot of that for granted. Just 50 years ago here where I live just about everyone had chickens (allot still do) a bee hive, an /or a pig/cow. They also knew how and grew food.

Double down (post):mad:

Jpete hit it on the head. We are not special here in the USA. We are only humans just like those living in the rest of the nations, and we are mainly sheeple at best. The majority will do what they are told. If the military is told to fire upon its own it will. If we are told to turn in our guns we will. Etc... Not all, but most.

lsayre wrote:Jpete hit it on the head. We are not special here in the USA. We are only humans just like the rest and we are mainly sheeple at best. The majority will do what they are told. If the military is told to fire upon its own it will. If we are told to turn in our guns we will. Etc... Not all, but most.

Yep I believe that to be true Larry. There will always be some that don't or won't comply but that's always the case.

SteveZee wrote:

lsayre wrote:Jpete hit it on the head. We are not special here in the USA. We are only humans just like the rest and we are mainly sheeple at best. The majority will do what they are told. If the military is told to fire upon its own it will. If we are told to turn in our guns we will. Etc... Not all, but most.

Yep I believe that to be true Larry. There will always be some that don't or won't comply but that's always the case.

Just remember this as you are turning yours in.

""Moscow fell, for example, not from a lack of weapons to defend it, but from the lying guile of the Reds. Ten thousand Reds took Moscow and were opposed only by some few hundreds of officer cadets and their instructors.

Even then the battle was fierce and losses high. However, in the city alone, at that time, lived over 30,000 military officers (both active and retired), all with their own issued weapons and ammunition, plus tens of thousands of other citizens who were armed.

The Soviets promised to leave them all alone if they did not intervene. They did not and for that were asked afterwards to come register themselves and their weapons: where they were promptly shot.

Of course being savages, murderers and liars does not mean being stupid and the Reds learned from their Civil War experience. One of the first things they did was to disarm the population.

From that point, mass repression, mass arrests, mass deportations, mass murder, mass starvation were all a safe game for the powers that were. The worst they had to fear was a pitchfork in the guts or a knife in the back or the occasional hunting rifle. Not much for soldiers.

To this day, with the Soviet Union now dead 21 years, with a whole generation born and raised to adulthood without the USSR, we are still denied our basic and traditional rights to self defense.

Why? We are told that everyone would just start shooting each other and crime would be everywhere....but criminals are still armed and still murdering and too often, especially in the far regions, those criminals wear the uniforms of the police. The fact that everyone would start shooting is also laughable when statistics are examined.""

I always stop & pick up a penny, in an instant I become a penny to the good & get a little exercise as well but there again I'm just a poor old retired boilermaker & have worked for everything I have. That I am proud of & believe that it is one of my rights to be able to as long as I'm not infringing on anyone else's. A penny never hurt anyone cept maybe if they swallowed one yuk.
I find it odd that if TSHIF most here seem to somehow think that a service person would be somehow not protecting their own families by protecting all. Thank God for our men & women who are willing to serve & protect.

samhill wrote::shock: I always stop & pick up a penny, in an instant I become a penny to the good & get a little exercise as well but there again I'm just a poor old retired boilermaker & have worked for everything I have. That I am proud of & believe that it is one of my rights to be able to as long as I'm not infringing on anyone else's. A penny never hurt anyone cept maybe if they swallowed one yuk.
I find it odd that if TSHIF most here seem to somehow think that a service person would be somehow not protecting their own families by protecting all. Thank God for our men & women who are willing to serve & protect.

Flyer5 wrote:

SteveZee wrote:

lsayre wrote:Jpete hit it on the head. We are not special here in the USA. We are only humans just like the rest and we are mainly sheeple at best. The majority will do what they are told. If the military is told to fire upon its own it will. If we are told to turn in our guns we will. Etc... Not all, but most.

Yep I believe that to be true Larry. There will always be some that don't or won't comply but that's always the case.

Just remember this as you are turning yours in.

""Moscow fell, for example, not from a lack of weapons to defend it, but from the lying guile of the Reds. Ten thousand Reds took Moscow and were opposed only by some few hundreds of officer cadets and their instructors.

Even then the battle was fierce and losses high. However, in the city alone, at that time, lived over 30,000 military officers (both active and retired), all with their own issued weapons and ammunition, plus tens of thousands of other citizens who were armed.

The Soviets promised to leave them all alone if they did not intervene. They did not and for that were asked afterwards to come register themselves and their weapons: where they were promptly shot.

Of course being savages, murderers and liars does not mean being stupid and the Reds learned from their Civil War experience. One of the first things they did was to disarm the population.

From that point, mass repression, mass arrests, mass deportations, mass murder, mass starvation were all a safe game for the powers that were. The worst they had to fear was a pitchfork in the guts or a knife in the back or the occasional hunting rifle. Not much for soldiers.

To this day, with the Soviet Union now dead 21 years, with a whole generation born and raised to adulthood without the USSR, we are still denied our basic and traditional rights to self defense.

Why? We are told that everyone would just start shooting each other and crime would be everywhere....but criminals are still armed and still murdering and too often, especially in the far regions, those criminals wear the uniforms of the police. The fact that everyone would start shooting is also laughable when statistics are examined.""

And that is exactly the type of extraordinary situation were the military would be involved against some segment of it's populace here Dave, and rightly so.

The 'Pravda' piece quoted above is proof that history itself should be a powerful tool in preparing us against the potential of history repeating itself. But we are becoming (or perhaps we have already become) an ignorant nation, and understanding the relevance of history is not our forte. Education in America is a disaster. Perhaps the first step toward the repeal of the 2nd Amendment has already been taken by dumbing us down. An ignorant nation is a malleable nation, capable of being shaped and formed by the blacksmiths holding the forging hammers.

For example, we are being taught to accept that the very Constitution itself should be seen as applicable to our modern era only as a "living" (I.E., malleable) document. The educational establishment has learned that to kill a snake efficiently you must cut off its head (the Constitution and its Bill of Rights). To do so you must as an important first part of this process dehumanize and even demonize those who wrote it, so their written word of genius is made suspect of error by association with the frailty of the mere humans who penned it. The rest will be history.

Not on topic, but my favorite author and philosopher Ayn Rand is demonized in just such a fashion by those who can not directly refute her genius. Rather they attempt to bring her (and by association her penned genius) down by revealing her personal human frailties.

I think many here are reacting and not reallt reading what it is exactly I am writing.

I am not talking about a Civil War. I am not talking about North Vs. South. I am talking about life, as you currently know it, not existing. No stores to get food from. No clean water supplies. No power grd. No gas. Every aspect of your current comfy life being gone. Every penny you have in the bank being worth squat. The collapse of America as a super power.

If history class taught you anything it is that every single super power falls. We will eventually be in some future history book as being a super power who overconsumed, expected everything to be handed to us, spent trillions of dollars we didnt have, and fell from grace. It is a moving force that cannot be stopped. Look no further then the story of Easter Island. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gfbQA-Krx9Q. Massive droughts wrecked crops this year and left grain and corn prices sky high. Most our food we buy comes from overseas. so what happens when the American dollar is no longer accepted? Where will the frozen chicken nuggets you buy come from?

When that happens, what will you do? What will your great grandchildren do? It is my belief that our military and police forces will be gone. Dried up. No funds. It isnt that I think they will need to fight our own people, they will be needed for protection from our own people. The have nots who want to take. The looters, the killers, the people who wll stop at nothing to feed their own. In this situation, you will be on your own. What you do now will determine if you make it through our collapse and come out the other side.

My fear in all of this is the terrorists and other countries who wish to cause us harm. They are all watching with baited breath everything that goes on here. Right now, I think it would be foolish for another country to attempt to occupy us because I think there are enough armed citizens who would work in conjunction with our own military and police force to stop this attack. If we, as a country, fall, then terrorists are free to do their deeds. To bomb, to attack, to bring their "holy war" to our grounds. Think Pearl Habor on a grand scale.

All I ask is that we, as American citizens, keep our minds open that such a thing can happen, and may happen in our lifetimes. Even if we have a collapse for 3 months, how many have the means to survive? I preach about the need to be self-sufficient. To able to survive and come out the other side of 6 months of total darkness. No power, no stores, no gas, no police protection. I try to teach my children the importance of this so they can in turn pass it on. I aquire the tools and the knowledge to do these things so I can be better prepared to take care of my blood line if such a thing happens in my lifetime. I spend thousands to dollars doing so, but to ME, it is worth it. If it isnt to you, then that is fine to.

My original post in this thread was to tell people to keep an eye on the other hand while all this gun news is capturing your attention. Keep your eyes to the sky so-to-speak. Dont let the media suck you into a panic on a gun ban. Listen, if the day comes and they go door to door like China collecting guns, you do what you feel you need to do. As I said, I am not worried about it. My guns fell apart and I lost the pieces somewhere on the 100+ acres my family owns in the North and 50 some acres my family owns in the UP. My bad. I should have been more careful. I guess I will have to rely on my archery and edged weapons.

Live your life how you chose and be happy. Allow your kids to be happy. All I ask is you become a solution and not a problem. I feel for those who will be standing in soup lines or putting their lives on the line to get the last bag of potatoes from the local store. I really do. But I cannot afford to help anyone but my own. I suggest you do the same. Stop consuming and start producing. If you dont have the land, hydroponics is quick and easy. So are chickens, rabbits, etc.

Maybe I do come off rigid and an a$$hole. So be it. I am passionate about how I chose to live and passionate about teaching people the same. I am also passionate about not expecting something to be handed to you, work for it. Educate your mind, prepare your body.

That is all.