Do you own your home?

I don't look at it as a situation where somebody has got me under their thumb, just the price of admission to life where and how I choose to live it. I hear they don't bother much about collecting taxes in the middle of the amazon jungle and you can build your house any way you want with no permitting required, but I wouldn't need my coal stove there so I'd have to find a replacement hobby. Also internet access is spotty and I'd miss the coal forum! Although if you are lucky like one of the indigenous native tribes, you may never see anyone again. You can also own as many guns as you want which may come in handy if some pesky cocaine growers start squatting nearby.

This discussion is a line of reasoning that has been used to justify renting over buying in financial planning circles. Between the cost of property taxes and maintenance as well as depreciation in some areas recently, renting has advantages in certain situations. Also the length of time you plan on staying in an area comes into play.

Very good post IOF and Titleist1

I have just 3 payments left and my mortgage will be paid off in full. It was a 30 yr. but by paying a little extra to the principal each month I cut about 7 years off the total. People love to moan about how bad it is or good it used to be but we live in not only one of (if not the most ) affluent countries on the planet. We also live in a time period in history of unprecedented ease and prosperity.
Dann stated that his town is being ruined by overdevelopment and "liberal policy"? I would venture to say that the over developement is not being done by liberals and that more than likely most of the laws that keep over develoment from happening would be of the liberal persuasion? Just a tree huggin thought .

I for one wake up and thank my lucky stars for the opportunities that are available to the people of this country. We take allot for granted just going to the grocery store which is full of everything under the sun in season or not. That alone is a huge benifit. Must have some pretty good "karma" to have been born in this place and time is all I can say.

well, I will touch on the subject of that example in the main post regarding a veggie garden in the front yard... That would NEVER hold up in court period.

It would be nice to see photo's of this so called garden because something tells me if this story is true their is more to it then meets the eye. Maybe its a commercial operation, maybe they run tours for youth groups, maybe they have 5 ton of horse manure dumped and its a public health issue, maybe its a subdivision they live in which has specific "covenants" that forbid what they are doing?

The simply fact of enjoying a veggie garden to feed yourself and family on your own land cannot be denied and any town foolish enough to take that battle to court will no doubt learn a costly lesson from the peers.

Maybe you should click the link and all your questions will be answered.

Dann757 wrote:Hey Jpete, you moan about injustice, put up pics of your gun practice, so I bet you jumped through the hoops like everybody else.

The gun practice was through the municipal police department with 6 SWAT officers in full gear standing next to me.

The only hoop I jumped through was the 7 day waiting period for my shotgun. I took the state "blue card" safety test for a permit to buy handgun but never bought one. Plus I have 20 hours of "hunter safety" so I can get a license to hunt with black powder or shotgun, plus another 16 hours of "bow hunting safety" so I can get a license hunt to with a bow, plus a few hours of a "safety lecture" so I can get a permit to shoot at the state range.

But other than that, no hoops at all.

Dann757 wrote:The Romans kept the roman baths going for 400 years, 50,000 citizens at a time could bathe in one of them. They gathered wood for the fires from all over europe. Then I guess they declined into moral decay and unbridled immigration....

Don't forget destroying the currency from massive debasing of the coins.

I'm On Fire wrote:Klook, what difference does it make? If I stop paying the taxes it means I've stopped paying my mortgage and the bank will come take it. As long as I pay they leave me be.

But that's the issue. My father paid for his house years ago. But if he doesn't pay his rent to the city, he'll be out on the street.

So the question stands. Do you own a home, or do you rent it from the government?

jpete wrote:

I'm On Fire wrote:Klook, what difference does it make? If I stop paying the taxes it means I've stopped paying my mortgage and the bank will come take it. As long as I pay they leave me be.

But that's the issue. My father paid for his house years ago. But if he doesn't pay his rent to the city, he'll be out on the street.

So the question stands. Do you own a home, or do you rent it from the government?

But I did answer it. No. The bank owns my home.

jpete wrote:

I'm On Fire wrote:Klook, what difference does it make? If I stop paying the taxes it means I've stopped paying my mortgage and the bank will come take it. As long as I pay they leave me be.

But that's the issue. My father paid for his house years ago. But if he doesn't pay his rent to the city, he'll be out on the street.

So the question stands. Do you own a home, or do you rent it from the government?

You are correct that you never really own your home. You may not owe the financial institution any longer but don't pay your property tax assessment and see what happens. The government lets you use the dwelling as long as you pay the proper tribute.

DieselBob wrote:
You are correct that you never really own your home. You may not owe the financial institution any longer but don't pay your property tax assessment and see what happens. The government lets you use the dwelling as long as you pay the proper tribute.

Well now that we have that settled, you ever try not paying your income tax?

Well... the Government charges rent, huh? We have a few choices.... We can trick them... We can use their own currency against them. All we have to do is put 2,000 of those USA green notes with President Grant's picture on them in 5 different banks, 400 Grants in each bank. They will GIVE you 2% a year, and it's 100% insured! So now you have $20,000 dollars a year free money to pay your taxes and even buy food. So, who cares, you can call it rent if you want, but now they are PAYING YOU to stay! You may scoff and yes, perhaps this is difficult to do, but, it is not an exaggeration, and I'll bet it's easier to do in the USA than any other country on Earth. If not.... move to the country that you think it's easier & do it there!

Well, I might as well chime in here with the rest of you folks. I am certainly not a fan of the heavy burden of taxation we all have to carry but it is a necessary evil. Without our property taxes how would you propose our governments would function? Granted their is an enormous amount of pork in the system but there is also money in there for our schools, roads, police, fire etc. Without our tax dollars they would no longer function. If there were no sanctions in place to take against those who did not pay their taxes then how do you suppose they would be able to collect all those dollars? Would you willingly sign up to pay if you knew some of your neighbors were opting out? I think not.

As a small business owner in CT I pay all the taxes everyone else pay plus so much more, I pay a business entity tax, registration fees, business property tax and more. When I filed my name for my business with the town I live in I got a form in the mail, they wanted a complete inventory of all my tools, date purchased and value at the time. This included all my work tools but they also wanted to know about my lawn mowers, rakes tractors and a number of other items not related to my Home Improvement business at all. That is crossing the line in my opinion. The President has said that our country is built on the backs of small business, well them maybe we should stop trying to break that back with all the taxes imposed on us. I could go on for hours on this subject but it will get us no where. As the saying goes only sure thing is Death and TAXES!!!

Freddy wrote:Well... the Government charges rent, huh? We have a few choices.... We can trick them... We can use their own currency against them. All we have to do is put 2,000 of those USA green notes with President Grant's picture on them in 5 different banks, 400 Grants in each bank. They will GIVE you 2% a year, and it's 100% insured! So now you have $20,000 dollars a year free money to pay your taxes and even buy food. So, who cares, you can call it rent if you want, but now they are PAYING YOU to stay! You may scoff and yes, perhaps this is difficult to do, but, it is not an exaggeration, and I'll bet it's easier to do in the USA than any other country on Earth. If not.... move to the country that you think it's easier & do it there!

I don't know what you do for a living, but I haven't had $2,000 to park in ONE bank, much less five, probably ever in my life. Certainly not for an entire year. All my money is spent paying rent to banks and governments.

$20k is MAYBE two years worth of groceries for me. And out of that, I have to pay tax on the earned interest, then I pay tax on what I buy with it, and don't forget the tax I paid while I was earning the money to put into the bank to begin with. Then $3k in property taxes, motor vehicle taxes, registration, inspection, insurance, etc and that $20k goes away pretty quick.

Meanwhile, while I sit on $10k just so I can get by, the bank is lending out $100k and making money hand over fist.

The argument "go someplace else" is a red herring. THIS is supposed to be the place.

NWBuilder wrote:Well, I might as well chime in here with the rest of you folks. I am certainly not a fan of the heavy burden of taxation we all have to carry but it is a necessary evil. Without our property taxes how would you propose our governments would function?

How did it function before 1913 and the permanent personal income tax?

Were we all living in caves? Out in the wilderness? No schools? No roads?

Your fire insurance used to pay for the fire department. Now, you still pay homeowners but they pushed the cost of maintaining the fire department onto YOU.

The world would still spin if we didn't pay the government for the privilege of going to work every day and keeping your family out of the weather.

The one thing that most insures that we will remian serfs or slaves of the "state" is debt. Debt at all levels, with private debt included. That plus a money system that has no foundation aside from the requisit of ones faith residing squarely in the power of the issuing "state" to provide a foundation for it (which begs the question of servitude in a biblical sense). Mathew 6:24 (ESV) says that “No one can serve two masters, for either he will hate the one and love the other, or he will be devoted to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve God and money."

And jepte is correct. The word "state" mainly means "national government" in the various contexts to which I have been applying it. But it is actually more broadly encompasing, and as such "state" serfdome has levels of obligation to the local, regional, State (capital S), and national governments.

Did you ever wonder why in his speech to the nation immediately following 9/11 President Bush encouraged (directly urged) us to continue buying and spending? What does that have to do with sympathy and atonement, or even with retribution? He was telling us to maintain the levels of requisit indebtedness spending that assure serfdome (aligence) to our "state" and its purely debt based monetary system. He was urging us to support and sustain the "state" in "its" time of trial and tribulation. Of such is the governments sympathy.

NWB, I don't know the taxes where you are but when I was restarting my business a few years back I figured to base it in my old neighborhood where we still owned a home. Basically all I needed is a mailing address & McKeesport was considered a "depressed area", two days after posting in the local papers we got a three page letter from the city with all the taxes, ordnance's, fees & rules most with up front money. Anyway I re listed the business with my local address over 100 miles away & there were no special anything but paying the earned income tax if any, it all seems to depend a lot on local Gov. & then we blame others. We do get services for our Fed tax along with the waste but then if we cut the Fed back the state takes on more & jack their tax up while cutting their contributions to local, cities, counties & such that then jack up theirs again, it's a dog eat dog world & the little guy pays for the food.