DS Stove Heat

DS Stove Heat

PostBy: bucksnort On: Tue Jan 15, 2013 11:17 pm

Well I installed my new DS Stove basement #4 a few days ago and it's burning we'll. I have been shaking it every 12 to 14 hours and have been maintaining between 400-500 degrees and its only using about a half a hopper full of coal. However, as soon as the temperature outside dropped it seems all of the heat the stove is producing has disappeared. A few days ago when the temps were warm outside, burning at 500 degrees I could barely get next to the stove and it had my basement and house so hot it could take your breath away. Now at 500 degrees I can almost hold my hand right up to the stove without a problem, and my basement and house aren't that warm. So where's all that heat going? The house is only 1200 square feet and we are talking about a 130,000 btu stove.

I suspect that my chimney drafts extremely hard. I can run the stove no problem with my Mpd nearly closed. As soon as the temps dropped I think all of my heat is going up the chimney? However, even my flu pipe doesn't feel that warm. I can hold my hand right next to it and its not even uncomfortable. Not sure what to make of this but can I do to keep the heat in the house? I shouldn't have to run a stove that big that hard for a house this size to only keep it moderately warm.
bucksnort
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: DS Machine Basement #4
Coal Size/Type: Hard Nut Coal
Stove/Furnace Make: DS Machine
Stove/Furnace Model: Basement #4

Re: DS Stove Heat

PostBy: echos67 On: Tue Jan 15, 2013 11:22 pm

This sounds to me like a serious heat loss from the house, try walking around with an incense burning and follow the path the smoke takes.

Attic and walls have insulation, doors and windows sealing it just sound like all your heat is going outside as soon as the temps drop and the cold is coming in. With a mpd closed I don't see how all the heat can be going up the chimney ?
echos67
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Glenwood No. 6.

Re: DS Stove Heat

PostBy: oliver power On: Wed Jan 16, 2013 6:20 am

Do you have ANY insulation??? AGREE: With manual damper closed, the heat is not all going up the chimney. Sounds to me like air circulation problem. Or, being a cape cod style home; when new, capes have unfinished up-stairs/attics. I'll bet you have no insulation between the first and second floor (attic). If the attic is ventilated as is should be, your heat would be sucked out of the house. You'll want at least R-38 in order to hold the heat down in the living space. We all assumed you were well insulated. Oliver
Last edited by oliver power on Wed Jan 16, 2013 11:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.
oliver power
 
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Stove/Furnace Model: 50-93 & 30-95 , Kaa-2

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Re: DS Stove Heat

PostBy: lsayre On: Wed Jan 16, 2013 7:15 am

To achieve 130,000 BTU's for 24 hours requires burning roughly 300 lbs. of anthracite in one day. If your consumption isn't going up when it gets cold outside, your heat output isn't either.
lsayre
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: AHS S130 Coal Gun
Coal Size/Type: Anthracite Pea
Other Heating: Resistance Boiler (if I ever get it fixed)

Re: DS Stove Heat

PostBy: dcrane On: Wed Jan 16, 2013 7:39 am

not much i can add other then to let you know i agree totally with the previous posts. whats the age of your house? where is your stove located in the basement (next to full walk out door? up against an exposed cold wall? etc.).
Not to get to stupid here but can you just double check that your manual damper is in the 90% closed position and not the 90% "open" position (I know that sounds crazy but ive seen people make this mistake before) If you are pulling that good a draft from your chimney this is critically important to make sure something is not askew on that damper, damper handle or in your mind about "Open" vs "Closed" (if you have to disconnect the pipe to investigate this then do it on the next warm day you get).
Then after you know everything is functioning fine on the damper and in your brain make sure the damper does not move after setting it where you intend. If your draft is ridiculously strong you can also try a baro in line after the manual damper. other then that just try to make sure you have adequate insulation.
dcrane
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Crane 404

Re: DS Stove Heat

PostBy: I'm On Fire On: Wed Jan 16, 2013 8:32 am

Is the stove in the basement? Sounds to me like the unfinished walls are soaking up all the heat.

You've defintely got a heat loss situation. I've got a DS 1600 and a drafty house and on a 17* day with the wind blowing I can maintain 73* running the stove at 400*. But my stove is in my living room.
I'm On Fire
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: DS Machines DS-1600 Hot Air Circulator

Re: DS Stove Heat

PostBy: Lightning On: Wed Jan 16, 2013 8:56 am

echos67 wrote:This sounds to me like a serious heat loss from the house,


I agree.. Look for leaks on the upper levels where air could be escaping from the house. This would validate air infiltration into the basement. Its just as important to find where the warm air is leaking out as it is to find where cold air is leaking in. They are partners in crime..

bucksnort wrote:A few days ago when the temps were warm outside, burning at 500 degrees I could barely get next to the stove and it had my basement and house so hot it could take your breath away. Now at 500 degrees I can almost hold my hand right up to the stove without a problem,

Is it possible you are holding your hand next to the stove where some ash in the fire box is insulating the stove wall? - since its been burning for a few days now?
Lightning
 
Hand Fed Coal Furnace: Clayton 1537G
Coal Size/Type: Nut Size / White Ash

Re: DS Stove Heat

PostBy: Rigar On: Wed Jan 16, 2013 9:20 am

Ditto on all of the comments above...

... if the stove is in the basement.... and your basement is getting colder when it gets cold outside... then you definitely have some sort of air infiltration into the basement level. if the heat from the stove cannot combat the cold air infiltration into the basement... then it definitely is not going to heat the home above.
Rigar
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Furnace: Keystoker A 150
Coal Size/Type: anthracite rice
Stove/Furnace Make: Keystoker
Stove/Furnace Model: A 150 warm air furnace

Re: DS Stove Heat

PostBy: titleist1 On: Wed Jan 16, 2013 9:55 am

have you measured your draft via a manometer?

what is the temp in the basement where the stove is located?

what is the flue temp?

if you don't have one, rather than a magnetic gauge for the flue, i recommend getting a barbeque grill thermometer probe. they are threaded with a short 2 or 3 inch probe so you will get a more accurate temp reading on the exhaust gases than a magnetic thermometer stuck on a round flue pipe.

i have had one for 3 years and the probe has held up, i think it was $9 from a big box store. i was wondering when i got it if it would get destroyed in the exhaust gas but i clean it off at the end of the season and let it sit on top of the stove and the probe still looks fine.
titleist1
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: Harman Mag Stoker (old style) one in basement, one in workshop
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Harman Mark III on standby for long power outages
Coal Size/Type: Rice/Anthracite; Nut/Anthracite

Re: DS Stove Heat

PostBy: SteveZee On: Wed Jan 16, 2013 10:32 am

You should not have to run that size stove at 500° to heat that size space unless it is single digits or below. You say 1200sq ft? Does that include the unfinished basement too? Even if it doesn't there should not be that kind of a difference. In an unfinsihed basement is always a problem but shouldn't be that drastic unless you have some serious insulating problems. It's NOT going up the chimney as evidenced by the fact that you can hold your hand close to the stack. That much heat would have the stack glowing. Sorry you are having these problems but nothing short of nuclear plant if going to work if the house is uninsulated. You need to find out where it's leaking.
SteveZee
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Glenwood Modern Oak 116 & Glenwood 208 C Range

Re: DS Stove Heat

PostBy: buck24 On: Wed Jan 16, 2013 12:58 pm

I have to agree with SteveZee. If the heat was going up the chimney your stovepipe would be hotter. You said your MPD is nearly closed. Maybe you have it dampened too much. Try it 3/4 closed and then make an adjustment to your air intake. That stove should heat 1200 sq. ft. with no problem.
buck24
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: New Buck Corp. / MODEL 24 COAL
Coal Size/Type: Pea, Nut / Anthracite

Re: DS Stove Heat

PostBy: lsayre On: Wed Jan 16, 2013 1:35 pm

Don't quote me here, as I don't have a hand fired (fed) stove, but don't you have to intentionally turn these stoves up a bit (open up on the air intake by going to a higher setting number on the dial of the bi-metal intake damper) when it gets colder outside? Did you do this when it got colder?

And also (related), with the stove being in the basement (ground coupled, and thereby presumably far more uniform in temperature year round vs. the homes upstairs rooms), how is its bi-metal damper properly seeing the colder temperatures of the upstairs rooms you are trying to heat, in order to properly respond to them?

I'm just thinking (asking questions) with my fingers here, and primarily trying to educate myself, since I'm contemplating the purchase of one of these (or something similar at least), and I'm torn between putting it in my basement or upstairs.
Last edited by lsayre on Wed Jan 16, 2013 6:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.
lsayre
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: AHS S130 Coal Gun
Coal Size/Type: Anthracite Pea
Other Heating: Resistance Boiler (if I ever get it fixed)

Re: DS Stove Heat

PostBy: Coalfire On: Wed Jan 16, 2013 2:10 pm

Need to know how many pounds of coal are being burned in a day




Eric
Coalfire
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: DS Machine 96K btu Circulator
Coal Size/Type: Nut

Re: DS Stove Heat

PostBy: rberq On: Wed Jan 16, 2013 8:34 pm

Coalfire wrote:Need to know how many pounds of coal are being burned in a day.
Eric

Yes. You mentioned half a hopper burned in 12 hours. That doesn't sound like much coal in cold weather. How many pounds in that half-hopper? And, where on the stove are you measuring 400 to 500 degrees? If you have an infrared heat gun, check it in lots of locations. You can do the same with a magnetic thermometer but it's more tedious moving it around and waiting for it to adjust.

Are you sure you are shaking down the ashes adequately? I have seen cases where I appeared to have a healthy fire when I looked at the top of the coal bed, but not getting much heat, and it turned out the bottom 2/3 of the fire box was ashes so I really had just a small fire. After you shake down, look in through the ash pit door and make sure you are seeing at least a little glow through the grates, not just the darkness of burned ash. If not, shake some more!

You need a bent steel rod to poke up through the grates from the bottom (after shaking), and you should see a few very small burning embers fall through into the ash pan when you poke up through the grate holes and wiggle it around. An old paint roller handle can be made into a nice poking rod by straightening it out then putting a right-angle bend a couple inches long at the end.

P.S. Does your stove have air inlets on the upper door? If so, they should be almost completely CLOSED once your coal fire is established. If you have them open a lot, your chimney draft can suck in a very large amount of air over the top of the coal bed, and all that air and most of your heat just goes up the chimney.
rberq
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: DS Machine 1300
Coal Size/Type: Nut -- Kimmel/Blaschak/Reading
Other Heating: Oil hot water radiators, propane

Re: DS Stove Heat

PostBy: michaelanthony On: Wed Jan 16, 2013 9:17 pm

rberq wrote:

Are you sure you are shaking down the ashes adequately? I have seen cases where I appeared to have a healthy fire when I looked at the top of the coal bed, but not getting much heat, and it turned out the bottom 2/3 of the fire box was ashes so I really had just a small fire. After you shake down, look in through the ash pit door and make sure you are seeing at least a little glow through the grates, not just the darkness of burned ash. If not, shake some more!

You need a bent steel rod to poke up through the grates from the bottom (after shaking), and you should see a few very small burning embers fall through into the ash pan when you poke up through the grate holes and wiggle it around. An old paint roller handle can be made into a nice poking rod by straightening it out then putting a right-angle bend a couple inches long at the end.

P.S. Does your stove have air inlets on the upper door? If so, they should be almost completely CLOSED once your coal fire is established. If you have them open a lot, your chimney draft can suck in a very large amount of air over the top of the coal bed, and all that air and most of your heat just goes up the chimney.


Excellent point rberg I ran into that this afternoon about 4:30, I thought I had a great fire but I wasn"t getting the heat out put. The infra red gun was reading 340-380 around the stove and the pipes were 117 after baro and 170-190 along the pipe before baro. The blu's were dancing nice, I was topping off and the temp started to fall, I shoot and got some but at that point I realized I had not poked in a few days. Shazzaamm.... god dam deceptive ash got me, all most lost the fire and went about the patient rebuild. The hint was bucksnort saying he had a raging fire a few days ago and that is when the fire was built, same here is what happens to me! and in a basement as well so the little heat does get sucked through the walls.
michaelanthony
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Vigilant 2310, gold marc box, vogelzang pot belly
Coal Size/Type: Pea, and a little nut
Other Heating: Very cold FHA oil furnace

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