List of EO by Barry

Re: List of EO by Barry

PostBy: Dann757 On: Wed Jan 16, 2013 6:52 pm

jpete wrote:So a large percentage of Iraq and Afghanistan veterans, cops and other emergency personnel shouldn't be allowed to have guns in your opinion?


Coalkirk is right- SSRI's have nasty side effects. One instance where I might agree with Sam; the big pharma companies put 20 years research and 200 million bucks into these anti-depressants; and then they want their money back with big profits. See how they market what was once an anti-depressant as a quit-smoking drug. Heinous. You watch the TV commercials and they are required by law to quickly mumble the extensive side-effects.

Sorry to drift off topic, but that nutcase shooter was on meds from what I hear so it's not that far off.
So now, the tyrant will have access to every last detail of your life, as yet another evil inroad to strip you of your freedoms.
Last edited by Dann757 on Wed Jan 16, 2013 11:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: List of EO by Barry

PostBy: jpete On: Wed Jan 16, 2013 7:10 pm

Dann757 wrote:
jpete wrote:So a large percentage of Iraq and Afghanistan veterans, cops and other emergency personnel shouldn't be allowed to have guns in your opinion?


Man, you never miss a chance to cause discord, do you?

Coalkirk is right- SSRI's have nasty side effects. One instance where I might agree with Sam; the big pharma companies put 20 years research and 200 million bucks into these anti-depressants; and then they want their money back with big profits. See how they market what was once an anti-depressant as a quit-smoking drug. Heinous. You watch the TV commercials and they are required by law to quickly mumble the extensive side-effects.

I know first hand, I was eating Zoloft many years ago, so glad I went off it. Anger reactions, profuse sweating. I lost a friend who was on it. Dead at 35 under mysterious circumstances. He was always profusely sweating. I have a customer that confided in me, they want her to stay on it. I kept my yap shut tight even though I would like to tell her 45 minutes of strenuous excercise a day will do more for depression than a drug that works by causing a low-level toxicity in the brain.
Sorry to drift off topic, but that nutcase shooter was on meds from what I hear so it's not that far off.
I tried to get my medical records released to me once many years ago- try it. It's impossible.
So now, the tyrant will have access to every last detail of your life, as yet another evil inroad to strip you of your freedoms.


If introducing a very real possibility into a conversation is "causing discord" then I guess you are right.

My wife is an EMT and I have other members of my family in law enforcement. The prevalence of these type of prescriptions in the field is huge. Not that I blame them. There are only so many dead bodies you can see before it has an effect on you.

I had co workers who were Iraq veterans and while I don't know the specific drug they were taking, they told me they were taking all kinds of prescriptions to combat PTSD.

So if the proposal is to limit gun ownership for those folks taking these drugs then I think we should have our eyes open before we decide.

And since you have a history of taking these things Dan, you might want to be careful of what you wish for because you might make that list.
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Re: List of EO by Barry

PostBy: jpete On: Wed Jan 16, 2013 7:12 pm

Richard S. wrote:
jpete wrote:Other than the executive branch once again usurping the legislative branch. I guess that genie is long out of the bottle...


The Presidents job is to implement laws and create regulations within the scope of those laws.

I don't see anything here outside of the scope of those laws or the powers of the Presidency.


The executive "executes" the laws passed by the legislative branch.

He "should not"(I realize I'm talking theory here) have the power to do anything that carries the force of law. Doing so undermines the power of the legislative branch.

People complain about "activist judges legislating from the bench" but when POTUS(any POTUS) does it, there's nary a peep.
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Re: List of EO by Barry

PostBy: lsayre On: Wed Jan 16, 2013 7:17 pm

For those who see only mundane and relatively harmless EO actions here, think of the long term consequences of permitting such actions. These are water testing actions, just to measure reaction. If the reaction is "so what", I see nothing here that concerns me, this will embolden future more draconian actions for sure.

The bottom line is that EO's are to be used only when congress is not in session and a mundane situation (such as need to fill a cabinet appointment that would normally require congressional oversight and approval, which is hard to come by when Congress is away and it takes weeks by covered wagon to have them all reconvene, as would have been the situation when the Constitution was ratified) arises. Beyond that EO's must be considered illegal no matter how mundane or innocuous they may seem to be, since (per Wikipedia) there is no Constitutional authorization for EO's. And always remember that what seems innocuous to one may be quite harmful to the rights of another.

I also urge everyone to read the 9th and 10th amendments. Therein you will find that literally no power or authority that was not already in the Constitution at the time it was ratified is within the grasp of the Federal Government. All such powers are reserved to the people and the States. Boy did we lose a lot when we let these two amendments become meaningless. These Amendments tell us that no EO's have the potential to be legal, even if mundane. And these amendments were never overturned.
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Re: List of EO by Barry

PostBy: SteveZee On: Wed Jan 16, 2013 8:16 pm

jpete wrote:
SteveZee wrote:"I don't have a problem with most of those. Numbers 4, 14, 15 & 16 need alittle work.

I would add that anyone taking a SSRI (Selective Serotonin Reuptake Inhibitors) should not own a gun. The majority of these mass shooters are young men who were prescribed these drugs. The most common are Prozac, Celexa, Luvox, Zoloft, Paxil and Lexapro. SSRI's are the "smoking gun" that the politicans and doctors don't want to talk about. There are more and some variants but normal sane people don't go into a school and slaughter scores of people. People who are unstable do."

That's kinds what I thought Kirk, that it was something like that before they should be asking.


So a large percentage of Iraq and Afghanistan veterans, cops and other emergency personnel shouldn't be allowed to have guns in your opinion?


What's a large percentage? Pretty ambiguous Jeff. I was talking about a Doctor asking that question under those circumstances.

But to answer your question, I would say that people with personality disorders probably should not have guns in my opinion. People who have to be on medication for mental disorders should probably have a hiatus also. Not forever because many of those mental problems can be cured. Personality disorders , not so much.
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Re: List of EO by Barry

PostBy: KLook On: Wed Jan 16, 2013 8:25 pm

At this time only felons are not allowed to have guns. When another reason is invented, who determines how it is implemented and the integrity of it? I would say that some felons are not a danger either but oh well, that is how it is right? Some few must suffer to protect the rest of us. A woman can claim domestic abuse and have a mans guns removed from him without due process. Period. Are you going to tell me that no women for spite with a man hating spiteful lawyer have made the claim just to make it hurt? I know for a fact that has happened. Just because they could.

Kevin
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Re: List of EO by Barry

PostBy: jpete On: Wed Jan 16, 2013 8:28 pm

SteveZee wrote:
What's a large percentage? Pretty ambiguous Jeff. I was talking about a Doctor asking that question under those circumstances.

But to answer your question, I would say that people with personality disorders probably should not have guns in my opinion. People who have to be on medication for mental disorders should probably have a hiatus also. Not forever because many of those mental problems can be cured. Personality disorders , not so much.


The Department of Veterans Affairs has quietly released a new report on post-traumatic stress disorder, showing that since 9/11, nearly 30 percent of the 834,463 Iraq and Afghanistan War veterans treated at V.A. hospitals and clinics have been diagnosed with PTSD.


http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2 ... -ptsd.html

Maybe not a "majority", but I still think it's a "large percentage".

And that doesn't say anything cops, fire fighters and EMT's.

My wife was on a couple different things at different times until she took a break from the field. Most of the people she worked with burnt out over time. Luckily, she didn't work for a municipal department or she'd have been locked in. Cops, firefighters and EMT's on city departments have to worry about losing pensions and seniority so they hang on when maybe they need a break.

After our second child was born, she took about 5 years off. She's back in the field but working for a private company with no municipal contracts, she doesn't see as much as the blood and guts day to day anymore.
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Re: List of EO by Barry

PostBy: echos67 On: Wed Jan 16, 2013 8:53 pm

I think I have a problem with everyone of the items on the list, maybe I am misunderstanding the real problem here. My take on it is they have laws currently in place, the average law abiding gun owner like myself goes through it and buys a gun and then some guy goes and does this tragedy in an elementary school and all they talk about is making it harder for someone like myself to get or keep a firearm ? Get real ! The problem isn't the guns it's the wack jobs and criminals that steal the guns and commit crimes with them.
What's the stats on the Cities with the most stringent firearm laws compared to cities that have a concealed carry permit, gun crime is higher in the cities with tighter laws.
Columbine was committed when the "assault rifle" ban was in effect !
What is the stats on the people committing these gun crimes, have they had previous convictions of misdemeanors, felons, mental health issues and other items or are they a majority of legal law abiding citizens like myself that just went out and committed a crime with a gun ?
I'm so sick of all these politicians and their political games. I really need to take my wife, dog, guns and coal stove and move to the Mountains.
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Re: List of EO by Barry

PostBy: samhill On: Wed Jan 16, 2013 9:00 pm

The so called mental health professionals need some themselves IMO, PTSD has both become a catch-all for most Vets & also for many that don't like their stressful jobs & want WC or SSD. After Nam many Vets (including myself) were set aside where they could be watched, people I worked with before were actually brain washed into thinking I was gonna snap. When I took some psychology classes in Miami the teacher & most at that time blamed everything on peoples parents & up bringing(popular at the time) before that it was all sexual, what ever is the IN solution at the time. If you are off meds for a long time with no problem get that noted. Felons with rather understandable infractions can get their records expunged in many cases but in reality if you do the crime that is part of the punishment that you should have known upfront. There aren't many things that would bother me with these proposals & right now what he has done is asked Congress for their vote on any & all of them, the ball is in their court & hopefully they will weight it properly & if influenced at all it should be by majority of people, not money & influence from lobbies.
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Re: List of EO by Barry

PostBy: dcrane On: Wed Jan 16, 2013 9:08 pm

SteveZee wrote:
Richard S. wrote:
rockwood wrote:I went in for a routine physical and was asked.


The doctor asked you if you had a gun?

I'd tell them flat out none of their damn business.

Yep me too. Why would the Doctor be asking at all if it wasn't tied to mental health or rather personality disorder? They can't share the info anyway? I don't understand that Doctor bit at all? Have to ask one that I know. That would be confidential and could only be used as a statistical data for studies and not to pinpoint a specific situation.


Ohhhh but they can share the info (there in lies the danger), think of it like this... If a doctor, teacher or therapist so much as suspects any child abuse it is not only their duty to call the police... they are legally bound to. This provision would function in the same way as that. IE: If a doctor suspected you posed a danger to yourself or to others and you had guns... its his obligation to call the police.

I personally want gun reform, but even i have issue with this lil' snafffuu :cry:
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Re: List of EO by Barry

PostBy: Flyer5 On: Wed Jan 16, 2013 9:13 pm

echos67 wrote:I think I have a problem with everyone of the items on the list, maybe I am misunderstanding the real problem here. My take on it is they have laws currently in place, the average law abiding gun owner like myself goes through it and buys a gun and then some guy goes and does this tragedy in an elementary school and all they talk about is making it harder for someone like myself to get or keep a firearm ? Get real ! The problem isn't the guns it's the wack jobs and criminals that steal the guns and commit crimes with them.
What's the stats on the Cities with the most stringent firearm laws compared to cities that have a concealed carry permit, gun crime is higher in the cities with tighter laws.
Columbine was committed when the "assault rifle" ban was in effect !
What is the stats on the people committing these gun crimes, have they had previous convictions of misdemeanors, felons, mental health issues and other items or are they a majority of legal law abiding citizens like myself that just went out and committed a crime with a gun ?
I'm so sick of all these politicians and their political games. I really need to take my wife, dog, guns and coal stove and move to the Mountains.



That is my take as well I have made it 44yrs without getting in any kind of criminal activity. I have always tried to stay within the law. The problem is it too easy to unknowingly or accidentally become a criminal every time they pass laws that have no common sense behind them. Currently there are over 2000 federal laws on the books for firearms. Now we have asinine laws in NY. Hell some days I cant even remember my name let alone all the laws. If the law makes sense ethically and morally it easy not to break the law. When laws are made out of the pretense that some terrible incident happened and have no actual merit it hard to understand them.
Oh yea if the Dr asks if you have a gun just say I always have one . Don't you ? LOL
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Re: List of EO by Barry

PostBy: Flyer5 On: Wed Jan 16, 2013 9:15 pm

dcrane wrote:
I personally want gun reform, but even i have issue with this lil' snafffuu :cry:


I have to ask. Why do you feel we need reform? Can you stand behind your answers and say they will save one person without putting other people at risk?
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Re: List of EO by Barry

PostBy: dcrane On: Wed Jan 16, 2013 9:17 pm

Flyer5 wrote:
echos67 wrote:I think I have a problem with everyone of the items on the list, maybe I am misunderstanding the real problem here. My take on it is they have laws currently in place, the average law abiding gun owner like myself goes through it and buys a gun and then some guy goes and does this tragedy in an elementary school and all they talk about is making it harder for someone like myself to get or keep a firearm ? Get real ! The problem isn't the guns it's the wack jobs and criminals that steal the guns and commit crimes with them.
What's the stats on the Cities with the most stringent firearm laws compared to cities that have a concealed carry permit, gun crime is higher in the cities with tighter laws.
Columbine was committed when the "assault rifle" ban was in effect !
What is the stats on the people committing these gun crimes, have they had previous convictions of misdemeanors, felons, mental health issues and other items or are they a majority of legal law abiding citizens like myself that just went out and committed a crime with a gun ?
I'm so sick of all these politicians and their political games. I really need to take my wife, dog, guns and coal stove and move to the Mountains.



That is my take as well I have made it 44yrs without getting in any kind of criminal activity. I have always tried to stay within the law. The problem is it too easy to unknowingly or accidentally become a criminal every time they pass laws that have no common sense behind them. Currently there are over 2000 federal laws on the books for firearms. Now we have asinine laws in NY. Hell some days I cant even remember my name let alone all the laws. If the law makes sense ethically and morally it easy not to break the law. When laws are made out of the pretense that some terrible incident happened and have no actual merit it hard to understand them.
Oh yea if the Dr asks if you have a gun just say I always have one . Don't you ? LOL


but what happens when you deny this fact and a Dr. discovers that your registered as a gun owner :shock: Does the doc. now have the "right" to determine your unfit by virtue of your evasive actions? You see... this piece of the puzzle bothers me, i dont like it, it just leaves wayyyyy to much room for the taking of your rights by any medical professional who may deem it appropriate. NO sir.... i dont like it, i dont like it at all!
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Re: List of EO by Barry

PostBy: dcrane On: Wed Jan 16, 2013 9:18 pm

Flyer5 wrote:
dcrane wrote:
I personally want gun reform, but even i have issue with this lil' snafffuu :cry:


I have to ask. Why do you feel we need reform? Can you stand behind your answers and say they will save one person without putting other people at risk?


HERE WE GOOOOOOOO..... :lol: hommie don play dat.... your not gonna lead me into this convo again, the forum would get bogged down with lag :taz:
Last edited by dcrane on Wed Jan 16, 2013 9:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: List of EO by Barry

PostBy: jpete On: Wed Jan 16, 2013 9:19 pm

Flyer5 wrote:That is my take as well I have made it 44yrs without getting in any kind of criminal activity. I have always tried to stay within the law. The problem is it too easy to unknowingly or accidentally become a criminal every time they pass laws that have no common sense behind them. Currently there are over 2000 federal laws on the books for firearms. Now we have asinine laws in NY. Hell some days I cant even remember my name let alone all the laws. If the law makes sense ethically and morally it easy not to break the law. When laws are made out of the pretense that some terrible incident happened and have no actual merit it hard to understand them.


http://www.harveysilverglate.com/Books/ ... saDay.aspx

http://www.threefeloniesaday.com/Youtoo ... fault.aspx

How can the average American commit three arguable felonies in the course of a given day? Consider these hypothetical examples—along with their real-life parallels—in which vague and broad federal laws have made honest citizens into federal felons.
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