My squirrels are on steriods or something ?

Re: My squirrels are on steriods or something ?

PostBy: KLook On: Fri Jan 18, 2013 10:30 am

I won't disagree with some of that really. But shooting prairie dogs for sport when they have to be controlled somehow is not inhumane or cruel or evil. Neither is shooting squirrels. I shot things when I had a bb gun that made me sad, and that is part of the learning process.
You think animals with claws and teeth have ethics?? That is a wacko view. Wolves are known to kill for fun, but listen to some nature documentary and you would think they say a prayer before getting lunch. Animals are driven by FOOD and SEX. Period They have no ethics or morals. If they are hungry enough, they will try to eat you.
The native Americans celebrated their prey because they correctly realized that their survival hinged on the prey. Just like any predator population, not some mystical juju. When the animals they could kill with primitive weapons were scarce, so were they. We have long been a society that has unhinged ourselves from the predator/prey ratio because of agriculture. And it has bred generations of people that do not understand the role of animals in society outside of pets that they elevate to near human status or beyond. This is the sickness as it is unnatural and will make these people unable to survive with out society to produce food and do the dirty work somewhere they cant see it. And now we see them trying to shut down all animal uses and promoting a Vegan lifestyle for everyone.
I personally see this evolution in thinking to go hand in hand with the evolution in government that we are experiencing. The new intellectual elite reject all things that went before to show that times have changed and we (they) are more intelligent or enlightened. Evolve they say. So long as other peoples money does not run out and agriculture keeps producing tofu, they will be fine. But as animals we are subject to the same basic laws in the end and nature will dominate nurture.

Kevin
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Re: My squirrels are on steriods or something ?

PostBy: KLook On: Fri Jan 18, 2013 10:32 am

I will amend one part. I have shot animals with larger more powerful guns and not done my part in making a humane kill. It happens and you have to deal with it. I would think anyone that does not feel sorry for causing unnecessary suffering to be sick.

Kevin
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Re: My squirrels are on steriods or something ?

PostBy: franco b On: Fri Jan 18, 2013 11:35 am

SteveZee wrote:Our brain is the deadly weapon we were born with Richard. Some more then others per usual. I too can appreciate the Native American attitude (to hunting food). Like the rest of us, when it came to other's of the same species, they could dole out some "inhuman" tortures during battles/wars/raids/warnings.

As I said we are like rabbits that never evolved inhibitions in fights against their own kind.
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Re: My squirrels are on steriods or something ?

PostBy: SteveZee On: Fri Jan 18, 2013 11:45 am

KLook wrote:I won't disagree with some of that really. But shooting prairie dogs for sport when they have to be controlled somehow is not inhumane or cruel or evil. Neither is shooting squirrels. I shot things when I had a bb gun that made me sad, and that is part of the learning process.
You think animals with claws and teeth have ethics?? That is a wacko view. Wolves are known to kill for fun, but listen to some nature documentary and you would think they say a prayer before getting lunch. Animals are driven by FOOD and SEX. Period They have no ethics or morals. If they are hungry enough, they will try to eat you.
The native Americans celebrated their prey because they correctly realized that their survival hinged on the prey. Just like any predator population, not some mystical juju. When the animals they could kill with primitive weapons were scarce, so were they. We have long been a society that has unhinged ourselves from the predator/prey ratio because of agriculture. And it has bred generations of people that do not understand the role of animals in society outside of pets that they elevate to near human status or beyond. This is the sickness as it is unnatural and will make these people unable to survive with out society to produce food and do the dirty work somewhere they cant see it. And now we see them trying to shut down all animal uses and promoting a Vegan lifestyle for everyone.
I personally see this evolution in thinking to go hand in hand with the evolution in government that we are experiencing. The new intellectual elite reject all things that went before to show that times have changed and we (they) are more intelligent or enlightened. Evolve they say. So long as other peoples money does not run out and agriculture keeps producing tofu, they will be fine. But as animals we are subject to the same basic laws in the end and nature will dominate nurture.

Kevin


That is true. We are animals and we will and do dominate as long as we are able. Whether that is right or wrong or ethical or not is a matter of allot of differing opinions. The very fact that we can even process those thoughts/opinions is probably where our big brain comes into play and what makes us stand out. We probably got to the top of the food chain by using that brain in a ruthless, remorseless manner. There just wasn't any room for any other thoughts when survival was our priority. Things began to change as we civilized in societies. There, humans had more time on their hands because of larger food surplus and supply. This allowed us to explore education and alternate life styles. I look at it like religions. I don't care what you do, practice, or believe in as long as it doesn't infringe on my or others lifestyles or beliefs etc....Simplistic but that's all I really need.

We do in fact elevate animals as pets. I'm as guilty as anyone of loving my "pets". Why do we do that? Is it because they are so much more transparent than humans? Not allot of malice or deception in the ones we have 'domesticated". They are driven by instinct and are pretty much hard wired to behaviors. There's a bit of innocence to that that appeals to me anyway and I guess that's a part of it.
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Re: My squirrels are on steriods or something ?

PostBy: franco b On: Fri Jan 18, 2013 12:48 pm

KLook wrote:But as animals we are subject to the same basic laws in the end and nature will dominate nurture.

I think that is a true statement and confirms my view regarding our kinship with animals. It also denies the godlike status that humans pretend to have. It also contradicts much of what you wrote prior to that statement.

That animals have systems of morality has been confirmed in many studies. Wolves killing for fun is very much like mob mentality in humans. It is not the norm. We get along so well with the wolves we keep as pets ( as dogs) because their sense of morality is so close to our own. Being a different species there is not the hostility humans feel toward other humans not of their group. Morality is just another name for rules of behavior without which no species can survive.

Native Americans did have a mystical juju or spirituality. I don't think they made an environmental study as you imply, but rather recognized the pervasiveness of the forces of nature. A theology confirmed by what they saw around them and which left them unprepared when confronted with Europeans who lacked that basic understanding. Franklin reported that the chiefs he met in Albany thought white men were crazy. He also expressed his admiration of them.

Certainly animals are driven by food and sex as are humans.

Taking an anthropomorphic view of animals which is the ascribing of human traits to them is a no no in biology because it conflicts with our elevated status and denies our animal origins despite the millions and millions who see the very obvious human attributes in them and our kinship with them. Modern day theology or current mythology prefers ignorance to acting on what evolutionary and ethological studies has to tell us regarding human behavior. Maybe they are right since nature will out anyway.
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Re: My squirrels are on steriods or something ?

PostBy: Flyer5 On: Fri Jan 18, 2013 1:52 pm

Flyer5
 
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Re: My squirrels are on steriods or something ?

PostBy: franco b On: Fri Jan 18, 2013 2:00 pm

SteveZee wrote:We do in fact elevate animals as pets. I'm as guilty as anyone of loving my "pets". Why do we do that? Is it because they are so much more transparent than humans? Not allot of malice or deception in the ones we have 'domesticated". They are driven by instinct and are pretty much hard wired to behaviors. There's a bit of innocence to that that appeals to me anyway and I guess that's a part of it.

Why guilt? You experience an emotional response to animals that is common in large part to all human populations that I am aware of. Then you justify that emotion intellectually when in fact you are just as hard wired to that emotional reaction as the animal you love. As I am too. There is only emotional justification and that is, it gives you pleasure and makes you feel good. You claim an animal heritage yet deny it in effect at the same time by evoking thought which is only there to satisfy preexisting emotion.

For that emotion to have become so strong and so common to all humans it must have carried with it a very strong advantage in the survival of early humans, very possibly the key attribute.
franco b
 
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Re: My squirrels are on steriods or something ?

PostBy: franco b On: Fri Jan 18, 2013 2:38 pm

Flyer5 wrote:http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=6c7_1285486220

Funny

I more admired the courage of the young man who did not regard animal baiting as a sport.

What are those long lances for?
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Re: My squirrels are on steriods or something ?

PostBy: KLook On: Fri Jan 18, 2013 8:06 pm

I completely disagree with the notion that animals have morals or ethics. Everything in the pack, using wolves again, is for hierarchy and rights to breed and eat first and most. It is a ruthless system ruled by natural law where the strongest and only the strongest will rule. Obama is trying it now. To equate cats and dogs that have been inbred and cross bred for centuries to make them more "anything" man desires is hardly proof about their intelligence. The ones that bit you or looked ugly were killed. Early on the hunting breeds and defense dogs were the only reason to breed. Have you ever been around an almost full blooded wolf/dog? If I had a neighbor that had one, the very first time it got loose it would die. Legally. If you want some Ivy league hippy chick with dirty sweatpants and mismatched socks who eats garlic and local herbs to have a 180 lb. animals that can stand flat footed and jump over an 8 ft. chain link fence and pick up an 100 lb. bag and just lug in off or pull its 8ft x 8ft "dog house" down the road like a styrofoam block, good for you. I have great respect for them and want a large gun and daylight when I meet them. I am only 5'7" and a large male will look basically right in the middle of my chest and weigh as much as I do. They are as deadly and unpredictable as these chimps that are allowed to be owned. They are not "noble". They are an upper food chain predator and very good at what they do. I'll let you talk nice to them and explain why you wouldnt make a good lunch. And you may get the chance if they release them into Maine, they are going to chase the easy prey of the deer herds in southern New England Once they eat the few deer and moose Maine has. Or will they use birth control and just hang out in Baxter State Park, soon to be Obama National Wilderness Area?

Kevin
KLook
 
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Re: My squirrels are on steriods or something ?

PostBy: freetown fred On: Fri Jan 18, 2013 9:26 pm

Actually, wolves are a VERY noble species and have no qualms in being exactly what they are, where as man on the other hand tends to hide behind the false aura of INTELLIGENCE :twisted: toothy How's that workin?
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Re: My squirrels are on steriods or something ?

PostBy: Flyer5 On: Fri Jan 18, 2013 9:37 pm

freetown fred wrote:Actually, wolves are a VERY noble species and have no qualms in being exactly what they are, where as man on the other hand tends to hide behind the false aura of INTELLIGENCE :twisted: toothy How's that workin?



The wolves are the intelligent ones?
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Re: My squirrels are on steriods or something ?

PostBy: freetown fred On: Fri Jan 18, 2013 10:02 pm

Left to their own devices---you betcha. You're not really thinkin that man is are you?
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Re: My squirrels are on steriods or something ?

PostBy: KLook On: Fri Jan 18, 2013 10:41 pm

If that was true Fred, there would be no people.

Kevin
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Re: My squirrels are on steriods or something ?

PostBy: Paulie On: Fri Jan 18, 2013 10:49 pm

Tree rats are a rodent, I have killed tons of them, they are very destructive. I do not even think about shooting them . My only thoughts are if my scope is dialed in right before I pull the trigger. A high powered heavy pellet is the way to go, and legal here in
MA. Ironically, relocation is illegal here. :?
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Re: My squirrels are on steriods or something ?

PostBy: blrman07 On: Fri Jan 18, 2013 10:58 pm

We lived in Pottstown Pa. not far from the Limerick nuke plant. We had a chain link fence around two sides of the property. I came out one day and noticed that the fence was sagging. On closer inspection I found the aluminum rods that were twisted and holding the fence to the top rail had been chewed up and were laying on the ground. They not only gnawed them, they pulled them off the fence rail and chucked em on the ground. I replaced them and within two weeks they were chewed up again. This time I got steel wire like a heavy bailing wire. I could see where the little suckers gnawed at them. They worked on them but it would take a couple of months instead of a couple of weeks but they still chewed em up.

Squirrels eating metal? Nuke plant within 10 miles? Coincidence?

I think not!!

Rev. Larry
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