Antique stove vs modern used stove

Antique stove vs modern used stove

PostBy: kstone On: Sat Jan 19, 2013 2:26 pm

The Crawford crystal stove is a good example off used antique that can be found at low purchase cost couple hundred dollars to @

The Crane coal cooker or Crane 44 is another stove found listed for couple hundred dollars to @


They both have 10 inch shaker grates so max output should be @ the same if we want to include one other stove for fun crane 88 i think it the same grate size and design ?

Is it possible to take sides on these stoves i ask this for few reason I think either the Crane or Crawford stoves where purchased they would be great first stoves and possible be the only stove you would need . and once you go past the 10 inch fire pot they are different enough that us newbies could learn what really make the difference in stove's and start to understand that


thank you
kstone
 
Baseburners & Antiques: Andes 14 crown
Coal Size/Type: nut

Re: Antique stove vs modern used stove

PostBy: grumpy On: Sat Jan 19, 2013 2:29 pm

Well you know what I like..
grumpy
 

Re: Antique stove vs modern used stove

PostBy: kstone On: Sat Jan 19, 2013 10:00 pm

grumpy wrote:Well you know what I like..

Hmm wonder witch one
kstone
 
Baseburners & Antiques: Andes 14 crown
Coal Size/Type: nut

Visit Hitzer Stoves

Re: Antique stove vs modern used stove

PostBy: dcrane On: Sun Jan 20, 2013 12:39 am

It depends if your looking for pure function, heat, safety and zero maintenance OR you enjoy the character and use of a great antique coal burner?

The model 44 is 1/4" thick solid welded steel, you could literally throw it of a 10 story building or drop it the bottom of the sea for 10 years and it WILL still function and be air tight with quick door gasket change. Cast Iron is sexy to be sure... you can make designs and shapes and wonderful things with it (the drawback is it cannot maintain true air tightness for years & decades without complete disassemble, re gasket and re cement. Cast Iron cannot be overfired without risking damage/Cracks/loss of air tight ability (a Crane 44 is very hard to hurt by overfiring), Both of these stoves preform great and can run at very low heat output as well as very high heat output. The depth of coal bed does not gain heat output (this was tested extensively and why the model 88 was discontinued and why the chubby is not taller (the space over the coal bed does allow for a little extra efficiency in the Crawford by allowing those hot gases to linger longer) but a manual damper can be added to help that in the Crane. The concepts are the same... My father essentially loved the design and performance of these antiques and tired his best to make a cost effective coal burner that preformed like them without the maintenance and smells (smell was large turn off when trying to convert wood burners to coal back in the day). I would love the work involved with refurbishing an antique (as would many people here), but a medical doctor or white collar guy may not be so enthusiastic about doing such things LOL

So its really up to your tastes, either of these will burn coal incredibly well!I
Last edited by dcrane on Sun Jan 20, 2013 12:42 am, edited 1 time in total.
dcrane
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Crane 404

Re: Antique stove vs modern used stove

PostBy: wsherrick On: Sun Jan 20, 2013 1:27 am

The deep, round fire pot of a cylinder stove designed for Anthracite was not built for increased heat output, but rather combustion efficiency across several important variables. This is in my opinion and experience the most efficient Anthracite stove ever designed. This is my Glenwood No 9 base heater's fire pot. When the base heating valve is set the hot gasses exit around the exterior of the fire pot. This method insulates the fire from efficiency loss due to incomplete combustion caused by direct radiant loss from the fire bed itself. As heat is lost from the fire bed, the fire cools below its ignition point and it goes out from the outside in. This design completely eliminates that large, glaring flaw. The narrow, deep fire bed allows for the hydrocarbons to slowly cook out of the fire, heat up as the make their way to the top and so they burn almost completely. These stoves have the combustion chambers proportionally designed along with the fire pot to allow air to mix with the gasses, heat up enough to ignite the gasses with virtually no loss in Thermal and Combustion efficiency. There are no small unburned chunks of coal found in the ash pans of these stoves. The coal is totally burned to a fine powder.
Even with a few pounds of coal in the stove, the fire will not go out until every last bit of fuel is consumed. These stoves have triple the radiant surface of a direct draft stove so most of that efficiently produced heat is then efficiently radiated out.

Here is a picture of the internal fire pot described above. A scientific masterpiece of applied engineering.
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Inside of Glenwood No 9 Base Heater.
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wsherrick
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Glenwood Base Heater, Crawford Base Heater
Baseburners & Antiques: Crawford Base Heater, Glenwood, Stanley Argand
Coal Size/Type: Chestnut, Stove Size

Re: Antique stove vs modern used stove

PostBy: wsherrick On: Sun Jan 20, 2013 1:46 am

As far as what you find in the used market, it's what you can find in any decent condition, at a fair price and suitable for the parameters of your home. Whatever, makes someone happy is something I can't argue with.
wsherrick
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Glenwood Base Heater, Crawford Base Heater
Baseburners & Antiques: Crawford Base Heater, Glenwood, Stanley Argand
Coal Size/Type: Chestnut, Stove Size

Re: Antique stove vs modern used stove

PostBy: dcrane On: Sun Jan 20, 2013 7:24 am

wsherrick wrote:As far as what you find in the used market, it's what you can find in any decent condition, at a fair price and suitable for the parameters of your home. Whatever, makes someone happy is something I can't argue with.


well said! I would give my right arm for Glenwood 9 to refurbish but they simply dont exist here :(
The hot gases that exit around the firepot due insulate and help in combustion temps but hurt in radiant temps (this is a fine line newer manufacturers have walked for years). I guess the easiest way to say this is you cant have both...one offsets the other to some degree.

This place is a dream for folks like us but inexpensive they are not... http://www.barnstablestove.com/html/parlor.htm
dcrane
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Crane 404

Re: Antique stove vs modern used stove

PostBy: Rob R. On: Sun Jan 20, 2013 8:57 am

If I had to pick a stove for a new coal burner, I would choose the stove that is more "forgiving" if something goes wrong, like overfiring the stove. Out of the two you listed, my choice would be the Crane 44...simply because if it isn't visibly abused it can probably be put into service with very little work required. The cast iron stoves must be totally broken down and resealed if you want them to be air tight...which might be beyond the skill & patience level of many people.
Rob R.
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: EFM DF520
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Hitzer 50-93
Coal Size/Type: Lehigh Rice
Other Heating: Dad's 1953 EFM Highboy

Re: Antique stove vs modern used stove

PostBy: dcrane On: Sun Jan 20, 2013 9:23 am

i did not notice you were from Plymouth MA. my aunt was one of the superintendents of Plymouth so im at Pine hills often. I dont mind loaning you a firebrick mold for the 44 if needed (thats about the only thing you would have to repair at some point that involved any kind of work). If you post some pics for me of the unit (inside mainly since the outside cant be hurt) I can tell you how it looks (firebrick, grate, baffle are the 3 key areas to look at). One change that was needed on the unit during its hay day was the hinge pins for the doors (if they are 1/8" thick its an older 44, if they are 1/4 inch thick its a later model)
dcrane
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Crane 404

Re: Antique stove vs modern used stove

PostBy: kstone On: Sun Jan 20, 2013 10:45 am

dcrane wrote:i did not notice you were from Plymouth MA. my aunt was one of the superintendents of Plymouth so im at Pine hills often. I dont mind loaning you a firebrick mold for the 44 if needed (thats about the only thing you would have to repair at some point that involved any kind of work). If you post some pics for me of the unit (inside mainly since the outside cant be hurt) I can tell you how it looks (firebrick, grate, baffle are the 3 key areas to look at). One change that was needed on the unit during its hay day was the hinge pins for the doors (if they are 1/8" thick its an older 44, if they are 1/4 inch thick its a later model)



I am not in the market for these stoves but when i was both where on my short list as was the chubby i end up with the Plymouth 14 it was built on water street in Plymouth at the turn off the century. The reason behind my topic was i tend to read the forums like i used to do with magazines and a comparison of stove that seem to the novice as the same i just thought it would be fun to read and talk about . also an repetitive topic off comparisons off used stove designs would I am sure help many others.

thank you for the offer off the brick molds i have three stoves now, one that i use. I need to sell the other two before i can get permission to buy another .

thank you
k stone
kstone
 
Baseburners & Antiques: Andes 14 crown
Coal Size/Type: nut

Re: Antique stove vs modern used stove

PostBy: dcrane On: Mon Jan 21, 2013 7:08 am

I am not in the market for these stoves but when i was both where on my short list as was the chubby i end up with the Plymouth 14 it was built on water street in Plymouth at the turn off the century. The reason behind my topic was i tend to read the forums like i used to do with magazines and a comparison of stove that seem to the novice as the same i just thought it would be fun to read and talk about . also an repetitive topic off comparisons off used stove designs would I am sure help many others.

thank you for the offer off the brick molds i have three stoves now, one that i use. I need to sell the other two before i can get permission to buy another .

thank you
k stone[/quote]

Is the Plymouth 14 functioning? the biggest diff. you will notice is smells and maintenance, your burn times, heat output, etc, is going to be very similar to that plymouth 14 with either a Chubby or a Crane 44. (Is the Plymouth functioning and in use?) You will notice the grate is identical to a Crane 44 nut grate (this is not a coincidence)... If the Plymouth is not functioning and in need of disassemble/re-cement/gasket/firebrick/grate (common process for this stove) i would be interested in buying it for w/e the min. price you anticipate (in other words don't scrape it!). I would merely use it as a project and piece of history.

If i get anymore old Crane 44's i will PM you, sometimes older folks call me and ask if i want them and I come UN-install and remove them and thank them. The one im running now is a 44 that was given to me by some folks in Whitman who knew my uncle very well and they were nice enough to ask me if i wanted it before tossing it (i ran their the next day!). I do have a model 88 donated by Defiant of hearth.com but i have to keep that because its the only one ive found and i want to keep for my kids and family history (but i would absolutely let you use it or try it as long as you wish if your wanted? you cant hurt it and it would give you free and easy experience with a Crane Coal Cooker) , im still looking for the 404 and a Crane stoker but i just cant find one's i can afford yet. Coalvet has my dream stove (its the best Crane ever made with a full cast iron trim kit installed) im hoping someday he lets my family have it when he is to old to lift his coal shovel :P
dcrane
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Crane 404

Re: Antique stove vs modern used stove

PostBy: echos67 On: Mon Jan 21, 2013 8:26 pm

Have any pictures of these Crane stoves, especially the one with cast iron ?
echos67
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Glenwood No. 6.

Re: Antique stove vs modern used stove

PostBy: dcrane On: Mon Jan 21, 2013 9:56 pm

echos67 wrote:Have any pictures of these Crane stoves, especially the one with cast iron ?


the forum has its very own section on them... Photo archive history of Crane Stoves

here is coalvet's... New Install Old Crane im not sure what he paid but i know his trim kit cost alot of money to the original owner, in essence he has all the benefits of a solid welded steel stove with all the benefits of a cast iron stove, i never knew he got if off criegs list but id be curious to know what he paid for that stove :shock: .... i located an old dealer who has some of these left over from decades ago and he keeps telling me he will call me (cause they are stacked and racked upstairs) but he never calls :(
dcrane
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Crane 404

Re: Antique stove vs modern used stove

PostBy: echos67 On: Mon Jan 21, 2013 10:29 pm

dcrane wrote:
echos67 wrote:Have any pictures of these Crane stoves, especially the one with cast iron ?


the forum has its very own section on them... Photo archive history of Crane Stoves

here is coalvet's... New Install Old Crane im not sure what he paid but i know his trim kit cost alot of money to the original owner, in essence he has all the benefits of a solid welded steel stove with all the benefits of a cast iron stove, i never knew he got if off criegs list but id be curious to know what he paid for that stove :shock: .... i located an old dealer who has some of these left over from decades ago and he keeps telling me he will call me (cause they are stacked and racked upstairs) but he never calls :(


Perfect, I will enjoy checking those links out. Thanks
echos67
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Glenwood No. 6.

Re: Antique stove vs modern used stove

PostBy: wsherrick On: Mon Jan 21, 2013 11:50 pm

dcrane wrote:I am not in the market for these stoves but when i was both where on my short list as was the chubby i end up with the Plymouth 14 it was built on water street in Plymouth at the turn off the century. The reason behind my topic was i tend to read the forums like i used to do with magazines and a comparison of stove that seem to the novice as the same i just thought it would be fun to read and talk about . also an repetitive topic off comparisons off used stove designs would I am sure help many others.

thank you for the offer off the brick molds i have three stoves now, one that i use. I need to sell the other two before i can get permission to buy another .

thank you
k stone


Is the Plymouth 14 functioning? the biggest diff. you will notice is smells and maintenance, your burn times, heat output, etc, is going to be very similar to that plymouth 14 with either a Chubby or a Crane 44. (Is the Plymouth functioning and in use?) You will notice the grate is identical to a Crane 44 nut grate (this is not a coincidence)... If the Plymouth is not functioning and in need of disassemble/re-cement/gasket/firebrick/grate (common process for this stove) i would be interested in buying it for w/e the min. price you anticipate (in other words don't scrape it!). I would merely use it as a project and piece of history.

If i get anymore old Crane 44's i will PM you, sometimes older folks call me and ask if i want them and I come UN-install and remove them and thank them. The one im running now is a 44 that was given to me by some folks in Whitman who knew my uncle very well and they were nice enough to ask me if i wanted it before tossing it (i ran their the next day!). I do have a model 88 donated by Defiant of hearth.com but i have to keep that because its the only one ive found and i want to keep for my kids and family history (but i would absolutely let you use it or try it as long as you wish if your wanted? you cant hurt it and it would give you free and easy experience with a Crane Coal Cooker) , im still looking for the 404 and a Crane stoker but i just cant find one's i can afford yet. Coalvet has my dream stove (its the best Crane ever made with a full cast iron trim kit installed) im hoping someday he lets my family have it when he is to old to lift his coal shovel :P[/quote]

What are you talking about smells? I believe this Plymouth is in daily use. There is a thread about it from last year.
wsherrick
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Glenwood Base Heater, Crawford Base Heater
Baseburners & Antiques: Crawford Base Heater, Glenwood, Stanley Argand
Coal Size/Type: Chestnut, Stove Size

Visit Hitzer Stoves