I Want To Move To Furnace From Stoker Stoves

I Want To Move To Furnace From Stoker Stoves

PostBy: heatwithcoal On: Mon Jan 21, 2013 9:41 pm

It has been a few years since my last post and first of all I would like to thank everyone on this forum that offered all their advice to help me get my existing stoker stoves running and keeping me very warm. Now I am looking to move to a furnace and am asking for more advice.
Below are house details:
I have a raised ranch with electric baseboard (never really used) 1650 sq ft on main floor and 1350 in semi-insulated basement. Cinder block chimney. I am currently heating the entire house with 2 stoves. A Magnum Stoker in the basement, letting heat rise through the stairway along with duct running from the Mag to the stairs. This duct has inline fan. I also have an LL Econo on opposite end of house upstairs in the kitchen. House is generally 72 degrees burning 4-5 ton per year. I have been very satisfied with both stoves, however, this year I had central AC/heat pump installed with ductwork in the attic. This got me thinking about taking advantage of this ductwork by installing coal (or pellet) furnace in the basement (in place of the Magnum), running a duct up to the attic (through closet) and tapping into this new ductwork for heat distribution. After talking with a few people they suggested that my house was small enough that I could install a furnace, run simple ductwork to a few holes in the floor and not use the attic ductwork Now a couple of questions:

What do you think about using attic ductwork for heat? How much heat will I lose doing this? (Heat into cold attic)
I like the LL's and have looked online at the Hyfire II. Based on information provided above, would this be a good fit? It sounds like I would need a jacket for it to duct it?

Any other advice on a particular furnace or setup would be greatly appreciated.

Mark
heatwithcoal
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Furnace: AK-110
Stove/Furnace Make: Leisure Line
Stove/Furnace Model: AK-110

Re: I Want To Move To Furnace From Stoker Stoves

PostBy: 2001Sierra On: Mon Jan 21, 2013 11:10 pm

The thought of heat in the attic duct in the winter is really no difference than air conditioned air in the summer in a hot attic :?
2001Sierra
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: Keystoker 90 Chimney vent
Coal Size/Type: Rice
Other Heating: Buderus Oil Boiler 3115-34
Stove/Furnace Model: Keystoker 90 Chimney Vent

Re: I Want To Move To Furnace From Stoker Stoves

PostBy: mdrelyea On: Mon Jan 21, 2013 11:32 pm

I've been heating with the Alaska 140 auger model for a few years now. It's a forced air coal furnace just like you're looking for. I absolutely love it! I only have to tend it about once a week depending on how cold it is out. My house is slightly smaller than yours at about 1500 sqft, and also have a ranch. I've got a friend who has the same model and he also loves his. My father has the 140 dual burner and has been heating his 2500 sq ft house with it for probably 4 years now.

Here's a few of my favorite things about it
-Large hopper capacity. I don't have to fill the hopper daily, or empty the ash pan daily.
-Underfed burner design on the auger model. It burns the coal completely. Plus if I should ever want to burn *cough* wood pellets *cough* I can do that. That might seem like heresy to some people here! :shock: I look at it as another fuel choice option. I can choose whichever one is the cheapest.
-The new control box is digital.
-Easy to maintain
mdrelyea
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Furnace: Alaska 140 Auger
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Russo #2
Coal Size/Type: Anthracite Rice/Nut

Visit Lehigh Anthracite

Re: I Want To Move To Furnace From Stoker Stoves

PostBy: Pacowy On: Tue Jan 22, 2013 1:20 am

Are you trying to heat the basement as living space, or are you heating it incidentally with the Mag in order to heat the upstairs?

Also, does your Mag have the 6" knockout on top? If so, you might want to "test drive" your central heat idea by starting with a 6" duct from the Mag. You could run it all the way to the central air, or just run it to some point on the first floor and let the fan from the central air circulate it. In either case it probably would work best with a cold air return to the distribution blower.

Mike
Pacowy
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: H.B. Smith 350 Mills boiler/EFM 85R stoker
Coal Size/Type: Buckwheat/anthracite

Re: I Want To Move To Furnace From Stoker Stoves

PostBy: dcrane On: Tue Jan 22, 2013 5:42 am

"Are you trying to heat the basement as living space, or are you heating it incidentally with the Mag in order to heat the upstairs?"

GREAT question above that i would like to know also? RR is a fantastic house, is the issue that you do not want to tend the stove everyday? If the basement is unfinished then I would not bother going to the attic at all. If the basement is finished and you want to loose the kitchen unit and you know your going to be keeping this house for some time to come then i guess your on the right track with a furnace. (leave your elec. baseboard in place either way).
dcrane
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Crane 404

Re: I Want To Move To Furnace From Stoker Stoves

PostBy: heatwithcoal On: Tue Jan 22, 2013 7:31 am

I am heating the basement also. Family spends time down there, laundry, exercise, billiards, darts etc. The duct that runs across basement ceiling to the stairway is coming from 6" take off from the magnum. I performed a heating experiment the last two days using the magnum with duct/duct fan with less-that acceptable results. The family was walking around with fleece on because it was a chilly 67 in the middle of the house. They were glad when saw me re-starting the Econo last night. I am afraid the fan from the magnum will not be strong enough to push the air through the ac ductwork.
Yes, I would look to minimize the tending of stoves along with the fan noise coming from the econo.
I didn't think to look at AK's but have owned them in the past and they are a quality stove so i will look at those as well.
Before burning coal i was using pellets but pellets just are not as efficient as coal. Also I cant explain it except to say that coal seems to have a nice even heat that pellets do not.
How many ton are you burning per year with the AK140 single and your father with the double burner?

Thanks for any input, keep it coming.
heatwithcoal
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Furnace: AK-110
Stove/Furnace Make: Leisure Line
Stove/Furnace Model: AK-110

Re: I Want To Move To Furnace From Stoker Stoves

PostBy: mdrelyea On: Tue Jan 22, 2013 8:53 am

heatwithcoal wrote:Before burning coal i was using pellets but pellets just are not as efficient as coal. Also I cant explain it except to say that coal seems to have a nice even heat that pellets do not.


Couldn't agree with you more. I'm burning coal now and don't have any plans to switch. The cost is what dictates fuel choice for me and I suspect for most people. If the price of coal skyrockets (heaven forbid!) then I have another option and don't have to switch to a different heating appliance.

heatwithcoal wrote:How many ton are you burning per year with the AK140 single and your father with the double burner?


I burn 3-4 ton per year. I've burned both blakshak and reading. My dad burns about 8 ton a year of blakshak. He's got a much bigger house than me and he's on a hill.
mdrelyea
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Furnace: Alaska 140 Auger
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Russo #2
Coal Size/Type: Anthracite Rice/Nut

Re: I Want To Move To Furnace From Stoker Stoves

PostBy: Pacowy On: Tue Jan 22, 2013 9:37 am

heatwithcoal wrote:I am heating the basement also. Family spends time down there, laundry, exercise, billiards, darts etc. The duct that runs across basement ceiling to the stairway is coming from 6" take off from the magnum. I performed a heating experiment the last two days using the magnum with duct/duct fan with less-that acceptable results. The family was walking around with fleece on because it was a chilly 67 in the middle of the house. They were glad when saw me re-starting the Econo last night. I am afraid the fan from the magnum will not be strong enough to push the air through the ac ductwork.
Yes, I would look to minimize the tending of stoves along with the fan noise coming from the econo.


A few more questions:

Have you tried running the duct from the Mag to an air register "far" from the basement stairs, with the basement stairs serving as a cold air return? Or, instead of the basement stairs, connecting a duct from a suitable register to the intake of the distribution blower to act as a cold air return?

When using the duct from the Mag, have you blocked the rectangular air outlet?

Where was the duct fan in your heating experiment?

Does the AC unit have a "fan-only" mode so it will circulate air without cooling? Does the AC unit have registers in all of the rooms you are trying to heat?

It seems like there are two different issues here. The first is whether the Mag alone generates enough output for the house. The second is whether the distribution system for heated air is sufficient to heat the house with reasonable uniformity and comfort. If you don't have good distribution, it seems like you won't really know what the Mag can do, and the results from adding a furnace may not meet expectations.

Mike
Pacowy
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: H.B. Smith 350 Mills boiler/EFM 85R stoker
Coal Size/Type: Buckwheat/anthracite

Re: I Want To Move To Furnace From Stoker Stoves

PostBy: heatwithcoal On: Tue Jan 22, 2013 1:29 pm

Mike,

Thanks for your attention to detail. I will try to answer all your questions.
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Fan mode only-yes
registers in each room-yes
I occasionally close off the duct going to the stairs and open the ducting into my bedroom directly above the stove. basically reversing the flow through the house. But i do have he econo awlays running in the kitchen.As seen in crude drawing. I am at work. :D
I do have the rectangular air outlet blocked.

Keep the questions coming.

Mark
heatwithcoal
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Furnace: AK-110
Stove/Furnace Make: Leisure Line
Stove/Furnace Model: AK-110

Re: I Want To Move To Furnace From Stoker Stoves

PostBy: McGiever On: Tue Jan 22, 2013 2:20 pm

heatwithcoal wrote:It has been a few years since my last post and first of all I would like to thank everyone on this forum that offered all their advice to help me get my existing stoker stoves running and keeping me very warm. Now I am looking to move to a furnace and am asking for more advice.
Below are house details:
I have a raised ranch with electric baseboard (never really used) 1650 sq ft on main floor and 1350 in semi-insulated basement. Cinder block chimney. I am currently heating the entire house with 2 stoves. A Magnum Stoker in the basement, letting heat rise through the stairway along with duct running from the Mag to the stairs. This duct has inline fan. I also have an LL Econo on opposite end of house upstairs in the kitchen. House is generally 72 degrees burning 4-5 ton per year. I have been very satisfied with both stoves, however, this year I had central AC/heat pump installed with ductwork in the attic. This got me thinking about taking advantage of this ductwork by installing coal (or pellet) furnace in the basement (in place of the Magnum), running a duct up to the attic (through closet) and tapping into this new ductwork for heat distribution. After talking with a few people they suggested that my house was small enough that I could install a furnace, run simple ductwork to a few holes in the floor and not use the attic ductwork Now a couple of questions:

What do you think about using attic ductwork for heat? How much heat will I lose doing this? (Heat into cold attic)
I like the LL's and have looked online at the Hyfire II. Based on information provided above, would this be a good fit? It sounds like I would need a jacket for it to duct it?

Any other advice on a particular furnace or setup would be greatly appreciated.

Mark


My .02 cents...use the closet for a chase way for a new chimney and add a centrally located coal furnace in basement and simple ductwork as recommended. ;)
McGiever
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: AXEMAN-ANDERSON 130 "1959"
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: HARMAN MAGNUM
Hand Fed Coal Stove: RADIANT HOME AIR BLAST
Baseburners & Antiques: OUR GLENWOOD 111 BASEBURNER "1908"
Coal Size/Type: PEA / ANTHRACITE, NUT-STOVE / ANTHRACITE
Other Heating: Ground Source Heat Pump
Stove/Furnace Make: Hydro Heat /Mega Tek

Re: I Want To Move To Furnace From Stoker Stoves

PostBy: dcrane On: Tue Jan 22, 2013 6:03 pm

I call Dibs on the Harmon! :dancing:
dcrane
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Crane 404

Re: I Want To Move To Furnace From Stoker Stoves

PostBy: heatwithcoal On: Tue Jan 22, 2013 6:45 pm

I am leaning towards LL Hyfire II with twin fans and just running my own ductwork in the basement to maybe, tree maybe fo floor registers. I will be needing to sell my Magnum and econo to offset the cost.

Please continue to chime in with comments.

Mike,

If you are still selling wagons of coal, i may just end up buying one off you yet!! :D

A new chimney is out of the question. My daughter needs her closet space ;)

Mark
heatwithcoal
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Furnace: AK-110
Stove/Furnace Make: Leisure Line
Stove/Furnace Model: AK-110

Re: I Want To Move To Furnace From Stoker Stoves

PostBy: waldo lemieux On: Tue Jan 22, 2013 6:54 pm

mark,

Get a boiler and run lines to a Heating coil in your existing ductwork . Its a very common thing to do. All you have to do is run two pipes to the attic.

Waldo
waldo lemieux
 
Stove/Furnace Make: efm
Stove/Furnace Model: s-20

Re: I Want To Move To Furnace From Stoker Stoves

PostBy: Pacowy On: Tue Jan 22, 2013 8:13 pm

heatwithcoal wrote: If you are still selling wagons of coal, i may just end up buying one off you yet!! :D


At the new house we can fit a TL inside pretty easily, so we no longer have the fleet of gravity wagons. You've got a good memory, though. :D

Mike
Pacowy
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: H.B. Smith 350 Mills boiler/EFM 85R stoker
Coal Size/Type: Buckwheat/anthracite

Re: I Want To Move To Furnace From Stoker Stoves

PostBy: heatwithcoal On: Tue Jan 22, 2013 10:10 pm

So after a few beers and staring at the basement ceiling from my comfy easy chair i have decided to run 6" duct up through the closet into the existing a/c ductwork (pressurized side) and run the magnum to see results. I can knock this out on a Saturday. Most importantly, i spoke with my wifey and she had no problem with me cutting holes through my daughters closet. Yay!

Also, i did check the rectangular air outlet on the magnum and it is only partially blocked with a gasket, allowing air to flow up the 6" duct and out either side of rectangular outlet in to the basement. Once i run the duct i will block the rectangular duct totally allowing heat only up the 6" duct.

Mark
heatwithcoal
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Furnace: AK-110
Stove/Furnace Make: Leisure Line
Stove/Furnace Model: AK-110

Visit Lehigh Anthracite