Cold weather exposes issues!

Re: Cold weather exposes issues!

PostBy: Rigar On: Fri Jan 25, 2013 6:57 am

Lightning wrote:In extreme weather conditions like this, I have been clamping my baro closed and regulating draft pressure with the MPD. I'm doing this to cut down on air infiltration. Its been working good with the exception that I loose some of the automatic regulating effect that the baro has. This tends to make my furnace temperature yo - yo somewhat and makes for a few extra trips to the basement to re adjust my combustion air setting. I do have to admit though, my basement seems warmer, I'm guessing due to less air infiltration :D


you cant regulate draft pressure with a mpd
it feels warmer because it IS warmer...your running hotter..like you said
Rigar
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Furnace: Keystoker A 150
Coal Size/Type: anthracite rice
Stove/Furnace Make: Keystoker
Stove/Furnace Model: A 150 warm air furnace

Re: Cold weather exposes issues!

PostBy: coalkirk On: Fri Jan 25, 2013 9:21 am

Is your coal burner using the same flue as the firepalce uses? It looks offset so I'm thinking it does not. Anyway your baro is a draft limiting device. All it can do is reduce the amount of draft that your appliance experiences. It does that by taking air from the room and mixing it with the flue gases. That keeps the heat in the stove.

Your setup would work better if the baro were in the vertical pipe rather than in the end of the horizontal pipe. Replace the baro with a T and cap. Then you can remove the cap and clean out flyash from that level section. Your basement is colder cause it's freakin cold out.
coalkirk
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Harman VF3000
Coal Size/Type: antrhcite/rice coal

Re: Cold weather exposes issues!

PostBy: michaelanthony On: Fri Jan 25, 2013 10:13 am

coalkirk wrote:Is your coal burner using the same flue as the firepalce uses? It looks offset so I'm thinking it does not. Anyway your baro is a draft limiting device. All it can do is reduce the amount of draft that your appliance experiences. It does that by taking air from the room and mixing it with the flue gases. That keeps the heat in the stove.

Your setup would work better if the baro were in the vertical pipe rather than in the end of the horizontal pipe. Replace the baro with a T and cap. Then you can remove the cap and clean out flyash from that level section. Your basement is colder cause it's freakin cold out.

Yes the same flu, I have 3 flu' same fireplace upstairs and 1 for the oil furnace and oil hw heater and all 3 are offset, keeps the weather out and increases draft. I will move the baro. down or try a mpr in the middle of the verticle when I do a clean up. And you are right about the cold brrrrrrrrrr! I don't use the fieplace.
michaelanthony
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Vigilant 2310, gold marc box, vogelzang pot belly
Coal Size/Type: Pea, and a little nut
Other Heating: Very cold FHA oil furnace


Re: Cold weather exposes issues!

PostBy: coalkirk On: Fri Jan 25, 2013 10:33 am

The flue below the area where your coal burner enters should be sealed off the best you can. Stuff Fiberglas insulation up from inside the fireplace. Otherwise the fireplace is acting as a barometric damper.
coalkirk
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Harman VF3000
Coal Size/Type: antrhcite/rice coal

Re: Cold weather exposes issues!

PostBy: Rigar On: Fri Jan 25, 2013 10:36 am

[quote="michaelanthony"]Like many folks experiencing the cold weather, a couple things came too lite. Stove is drafting very hard, and basement is cooler than last week even though the stove is putting out more. The damn head is going crazy trying to figure this out. Look at the photo I posted and you will see the stove pipe entering the flue above the fireplace. I noticed when I went down stairs to have a smoke and opened the brass doors to the fireplace and the damper to the fireplace the draft according to the manometer would settle back to -.04...-.06 and the baro. settled back to bouncing and not doing a george jetson.

... if the coal stove and the fireplace are sharing the same flu ( as you indicated they are)...
then when you open the fireplace doors and flu damper for the fireplace.. you are effectively creating a huge and out of control barometric damper.... which basically takes your barometric damper out of the equation.. as you noticed.... as like you stated..." it settles down"
.. the pathway created by the fireplace is a head of your barometric damper..
your fireplace doors and damper must seal pretty well... otherwise yourbaro would not work well... if at all
Rigar
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Furnace: Keystoker A 150
Coal Size/Type: anthracite rice
Stove/Furnace Make: Keystoker
Stove/Furnace Model: A 150 warm air furnace

Re: Cold weather exposes issues!

PostBy: coalkirk On: Fri Jan 25, 2013 10:57 am

Just noticed in your picture the Baro looks fully closed.
coalkirk
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Harman VF3000
Coal Size/Type: antrhcite/rice coal

Re: Cold weather exposes issues!

PostBy: Lightning On: Fri Jan 25, 2013 6:52 pm

Rigar wrote:
Lightning wrote:In extreme weather conditions like this, I have been clamping my baro closed and regulating draft pressure with the MPD. I'm doing this to cut down on air infiltration. Its been working good with the exception that I loose some of the automatic regulating effect that the baro has. This tends to make my furnace temperature yo - yo somewhat and makes for a few extra trips to the basement to re adjust my combustion air setting. I do have to admit though, my basement seems warmer, I'm guessing due to less air infiltration :D


you cant regulate draft pressure with a mpd
it feels warmer because it IS warmer...your running hotter..like you said


Right, I can't regulate the draft with a MPD like the baro can.. What I meant was, with the MPD I can cut back the draft and not loose room air thru the baro 8-)
Lightning
 
Hand Fed Coal Furnace: Clayton 1537G
Coal Size/Type: Nut Size / White Ash

Re: Cold weather exposes issues!

PostBy: Rigar On: Fri Jan 25, 2013 7:28 pm

Lightning wrote

Right, I can't regulate the draft with a MPD like the baro can.. What I meant was, with the MPD I can cut back the draft and not loose room air thru the baro 8-)[/quote]

...lol...guess again gwasshoppa

...didnt you drill before abd after your baro and check draft ??
..will those holes work to check before and after your MPD ?
... short of the MPD being 100 % airtight... they will probably be the same .
Rigar
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Furnace: Keystoker A 150
Coal Size/Type: anthracite rice
Stove/Furnace Make: Keystoker
Stove/Furnace Model: A 150 warm air furnace

Re: Cold weather exposes issues!

PostBy: Lightning On: Fri Jan 25, 2013 7:57 pm

Rigar wrote:...didnt you drill before abd after your baro and check draft ??
..will those holes work to check before and after your MPD ?
... short of the MPD being 100 % airtight... they will probably be the same .


I don't follow why you would think before and after the MPD negative draft pressure would be the same partner :? ..... I mean yeah, it makes sense for the baro since it's job is to regulate draft pressure in the pipe. I did check before and after the MPD. Below are the results.. All the readings are with the baro clamped shut.

MPD open..
IMG_20130125_183744.jpg
(102.02 KiB) Viewed 1 time
View: New PagePopup • Select:BBCode
[nepathumb]40047[/nepathumb]


MPD 90% closed (Stove---> Mano---> MPD---> Chimney)
IMG_20130125_183825.jpg
(96.84 KiB) Viewed 1 time
View: New PagePopup • Select:BBCode
[nepathumb]40048[/nepathumb]


MPD 90% closed (Stove---> MPD---> Mano---> Chimney)
IMG_20130125_183929.jpg
(93.73 KiB) Viewed 1 time
View: New PagePopup • Select:BBCode
[nepathumb]40049[/nepathumb]
Lightning
 
Hand Fed Coal Furnace: Clayton 1537G
Coal Size/Type: Nut Size / White Ash

Re: Cold weather exposes issues!

PostBy: Rigar On: Fri Jan 25, 2013 8:11 pm

like i mentioned...that must be a very tight MPD...lol
...ok...I stand corrected my friend

i would try to clarify...but i have a hard time explaining it to MYSELF...let alone others...lol :D
Rigar
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Furnace: Keystoker A 150
Coal Size/Type: anthracite rice
Stove/Furnace Make: Keystoker
Stove/Furnace Model: A 150 warm air furnace

Re: Cold weather exposes issues!

PostBy: Rigar On: Fri Jan 25, 2013 8:15 pm

Hey...i just realize there were 3 photographs!!
( I'm doing this from my smartphone)
... the readings were identical..? or am I not following the photos?,
Rigar
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Furnace: Keystoker A 150
Coal Size/Type: anthracite rice
Stove/Furnace Make: Keystoker
Stove/Furnace Model: A 150 warm air furnace

Re: Cold weather exposes issues!

PostBy: Rigar On: Fri Jan 25, 2013 8:40 pm

Ok
.. I think I have figured out the confusion ( and I will admit.. mostly on my part!)
... when MPD is open...( mano after MPD) draft reads .06
...when MPD is closed...(mano after MPD) draft reads .06

... I understand I said before and after MPD......my bad.
obviously before MPD would be different...and with MPD CLOSED...
the pre- MPD draft reading is now essentially "over fire draft level"
... I get to admit the confusion was my fault...
... what I was trying to convey it was the MPD (again- unless it is 100%airtight) will not change chimney draft
... I have a hard time explaining this to people... and it's not their fault trust me... it is mine
... I do not do well conveying what I understand to others- sorry lightning
Rigar
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Furnace: Keystoker A 150
Coal Size/Type: anthracite rice
Stove/Furnace Make: Keystoker
Stove/Furnace Model: A 150 warm air furnace

Re: Cold weather exposes issues!

PostBy: Lightning On: Fri Jan 25, 2013 8:44 pm

Rigar wrote:Hey...i just realize there were 3 photographs!!
( I'm doing this from my smartphone)
... the readings were identical..? or am I not following the photos?,


Sorry :D .... All reading with the baro clamped shut.

Pic 1
MPD open is a -.065" WC

Pic 2
MPD 90% closed (Stove---> Mano---> MPD---> Chimney) is a -.035" WC

pic 3
MPD 90% closed (Stove---> MPD---> Mano---> Chimney) is a -.060" WC

The chimney's pulling strength isn't altered much after the MPD...
The MPD acts as a butterfly valve that is restricting exhaust flow where the Baro acts as a pressure regulator 8-)
Lightning
 
Hand Fed Coal Furnace: Clayton 1537G
Coal Size/Type: Nut Size / White Ash

Re: Cold weather exposes issues!

PostBy: Lightning On: Fri Jan 25, 2013 8:49 pm

Rigar wrote:Ok
.. I think I have figured out the confusion ( and I will admit.. mostly on my part!)
... when MPD is open...( mano after MPD) draft reads .06
...when MPD is closed...(mano after MPD) draft reads .06

... I understand I said before and after MPD......my bad.
obviously before MPD would be different...and with MPD CLOSED...
the pre- MPD draft reading is now essentially "over fire draft level"
... I get to admit the confusion was my fault...
... what I was trying to convey it was the MPD (again- unless it is 100%airtight) will not change chimney draft
... I have a hard time explaining this to people... and it's not their fault trust me... it is mine
... I do not do well conveying what I understand to others- sorry lightning


Its OK my friend :D No problemo 8-) In this case I would agree with you, the MPD wouldn't change the draw of the chimney lol I had a little confusion myself :oops:
Lightning
 
Hand Fed Coal Furnace: Clayton 1537G
Coal Size/Type: Nut Size / White Ash

Re: Cold weather exposes issues!

PostBy: Rigar On: Fri Jan 25, 2013 8:56 pm

Lightning wrote

The chimney's pulling strength isn't altered much after the MPD...

...its not altered at all..thats what i was getting at.
.005 difference is a non issue.

... important thing is you're staying warm...and we understand the same things ...just in our own way ! :D

...fyi... I sucked at public speaking... just could never get my point across !! :D ...( even if it was obvious)
Rigar
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Furnace: Keystoker A 150
Coal Size/Type: anthracite rice
Stove/Furnace Make: Keystoker
Stove/Furnace Model: A 150 warm air furnace