Wittigsthal stove from Germany

Wittigsthal stove from Germany

PostBy: kweis On: Sat Jan 26, 2013 2:03 pm

Newbie here. Thought I might be able to get some information on the proper operation of a Wittigsthal coal stove I purchased at an estate sale about 6 years ago. I believe it's from the 1930's from a small area known as Wittigsthal in southern Germany near the Chech boarder. It's brown enameled and firebrick lined with a hinged lid on top. I have never seen a stove like this before and I think it made to the US as a "spoils-of-war" item. The only name or word on it is Wittigsthal cast on the front. There is no other identifiying marks or writting on it so I don't think it was made to be imported at that time. It stands about 28" tall by 9" deep by 14" wide. Firebox is fairley samll with the firebrick lining. Big question is was it made to burn soft or hard coal & what size? I have burned nut size hard coal with ok results but it likes to burn that hot and not a lower temp with a longer burn time that I would prefer. Pea size &/or stove coal is not readily available in this area (central Maryland) that I've found to date. If I can find a way to post pictures here I'll try. Any information on this stove and it's proper operation at all would be much appreciated.

Regards, Kevin
kweis
 
Stove/Furnace Make: wittigsthal
Stove/Furnace Model: ?

Re: Wittigsthal stove from Germany

PostBy: ONEDOLLAR On: Sat Jan 26, 2013 3:15 pm

Kevin

There is a member here on NEPA with the user name of firebug . He is in Germany. You can send him a PM (Private message) via this site. WIth a little luck he will see this post.

Pictures will also help the rest of North Americans give you some advice as well. :lol: WELCOME TO NEPA!
ONEDOLLAR
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: 2014 Chubby Prototype
Baseburners & Antiques: Crawford #2 Base Heater
Coal Size/Type: Nut/Anthracite

Re: Wittigsthal stove from Germany

PostBy: rychw On: Sat Jan 26, 2013 6:46 pm

Pea size anthracite coal is available from HC Summers just South of Frederick Maryland. They sell it in 40 lb bags. Good luck with the stove.
rychw
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: AHS 130
Coal Size/Type: Pea
Stove/Furnace Make: AHS
Stove/Furnace Model: 130

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Re: Wittigsthal stove from Germany

PostBy: firebug On: Sat Jan 26, 2013 6:52 pm

@ONEDOLLAR: I´ve already spotted that new thread :D :D

@kweis: welcome! A picture would really help - there were all sizes and shapes of stoves on the market untill well after WWII.... from your description I´d guess it´s some sort of canon heater - they were made to heat smaller rooms for short periods of time. A very important feature to control the intesity and duration of your fire would be a manual pipe damper - which might even be built into the exhaust outlet of the stove itself. If that should be missing you may want to install one in the pipe that connects your stove to the chimney. Again: just educated guessing on this end until we get to see some pics (btw.: everybody around here is mad for pics!) :oops:
Mark

does your stove look something like this?!
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firebug
 
Baseburners & Antiques: Felix 141 by Ludwigshütte, Germany (1914)
Coal Size/Type: Lignite Briquettes, Anthracite
Other Heating: natural gas hydronic heating

Re: Wittigsthal stove from Germany

PostBy: kweis On: Sat Jan 26, 2013 8:10 pm

firebug, thanks for the response! The stove does have built in damper at the exhaust exit with 3 positions marked in German abreviations cast into it. I have a second damper in the stovepipe before it enters the chimney. The firebox measures 9" deep by 11" long by 5" wide. I also found what I think is a serial number 4C8752 in the inside of the top loading door witten by hand in some sort of fireproof paint. Also cast inwide the same door is the number 101. This number also appears cast on the inside of the ash door at the bottom. The stove is a brown enamel in a very prominant art deco style. I'll try to get a pic and posted tomorrow. My computer skills are questionable though. Another question I have is with a firebox this size should I be able to get a fire to hold overnight (over 8 hours) without attention in between? rychw, thanks for HC Summers source. I believe the pea or nut size is the way to go. I got some coal from them about 5 years ago or more that was stove size which I think is too big for this stove. They are in the same county I live in except on the opposite side. Walsh supply in Manchester near the Pa line used to have a large supply of all sizes of hard coal but he discontinued that many years ago. firebug, forgot to add my stove I think is smaller than the one in your picture with no decoration except for the art deco sculpting cast in it.

Regards, Kevin
kweis
 
Stove/Furnace Make: wittigsthal
Stove/Furnace Model: ?

Re: Wittigsthal stove from Germany

PostBy: nortcan On: Sat Jan 26, 2013 8:50 pm

Hi Kevin and welcome to the forum. What model of grate your stove has? If you can send some photos showing the inside of the stove, the grate...
I have a small Base Burner having a small fire pot, 9" Diam. and I usually put about 5 pound of anth. nut at 8 Am and the stoves buns 12 hrs till 8 Pm. I shake just a little before dumping that ""load"" :D to make some place in the fire pot. At 8 Pm I empty the ash pan before the once a day shake. Getting the right amount of ash down in the ash pan is the secret when having so small fire pot. I also tried stove and no good result, best with nut anth.
P/S, yes we like photos :lol:
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nortcan
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Stuart,Peterson/ Grander
Stove/Furnace Model: Sunnyside/ Golden Bride

Re: Wittigsthal stove from Germany

PostBy: kweis On: Sat Jan 26, 2013 10:01 pm

nortcan, thanks for the information and picture, very helpful. I'll try to post pictures tomorrow.
kweis
 
Stove/Furnace Make: wittigsthal
Stove/Furnace Model: ?

Re: Wittigsthal stove from Germany

PostBy: firebug On: Sun Jan 27, 2013 3:25 am

Hey Kevin,

I suppose the 101 on the castings simply determines the size. e.g. mine has 141 on the inside of every part and I found in an old catalogue that it came in various sizes, named 91 for smallest to 303 for the combined stove/cooker that stands 6ft high x 4ft wide x 2ft deep!

The abbreviations on the damper should read "Stark"... "Mittel"... "Schwach", right? Good for you that your stove still has it, mine got lost along the way :?

As M.Pierre (nortcan) indicated the grates will give us the best indication for what kind of fuel the stove was designed. Mine has a flat disc with slots in the middle of the firepot and is really a pain in the a*** to clean out when using anthracite. Only got one bag to try - due to its high price and the mess with raking out the ashes. I simply stick to briquettes, they are cheaper and they just fall apart once they´re spent and turn into very fine ashes with no clinkers.

Here´s a pic of the -then brandnew- firebox of my stove with the rotating grate - does yours look like that?

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firebug
 
Baseburners & Antiques: Felix 141 by Ludwigshütte, Germany (1914)
Coal Size/Type: Lignite Briquettes, Anthracite
Other Heating: natural gas hydronic heating

Re: Wittigsthal stove from Germany

PostBy: kweis On: Sun Jan 27, 2013 9:38 am

firebug, my grate does have a disk (maybe 3") that rotates maybe a 1/2" back and forth via a rod with a bakelite handle on the outside. The disc is actualy an open ring type with a small pull out grated underneath of that. I really need to post pictures. There is a staionary grate section that surrounds the disc that can rotate back & forth. It seems from the post that I was using way to big a coal (stove size). Years ago I thought a remembered some coal being sold here in briquet form. They did use to sell charcoal in individual briquet form in cardboard containers here (for grills/barbaques) that they no longer do. Yes the abreviations on the stove damper are as you mentioned, think actualy they are St. M. Sch. I'm greatly interested in the history of this stove as well. Would be really interesting of it was found to be made around Gladenbach, Germany were my family immigrated from but I don't think that will be the case :( . again will try to post pictures later today. This is really a neat stove and caught my attention in I first saw it.

Kevin
kweis
 
Stove/Furnace Make: wittigsthal
Stove/Furnace Model: ?

Re: Wittigsthal stove from Germany

PostBy: kweis On: Sun Jan 27, 2013 12:52 pm

Ok, going to try to attach some pics. Pics aren't the greatest so will try to get a few more of the grates.
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kweis
 
Stove/Furnace Make: wittigsthal
Stove/Furnace Model: ?

Re: Wittigsthal stove from Germany

PostBy: firebug On: Sun Jan 27, 2013 5:31 pm

Thanks for uploading the pictures!
That´s a neat stove, my first guess would be 1930´s - early 1950´s.
Concerning the fuel... the grates are that of a "Allesbrenner/Dauerbrenner" - translates roughly to something like "burns everything/continuous burner". It is built to burn any kind of fossil fuel: Lignite briquettes (shape & size of regular bricks) would work fairly well, anthracite/bituminous briquettes (size of an egg) or "propper" - I should say "not processed"- would also be fine. The shaker mechanism of my stove is pretty rubbish but it is only a mid-range product, built right before WWI. It is designed to burn mainly lignite, so it´s primitive grate is ok for that purpose... yours however seems a bit more effective! ;)

Besides the grates there are 2 more indicators that might tell us what your stove was meant to burn:
1: How is the exhaust handled in your stove? Do the hot gasses exit in the rear, right under the cook lids? Or is there a flue in the back, directing the exhaust downward and up again? If so it´s an indicator that you have one of the better stoves for lignite briquettes; that fuel burns with long flames like wood and needs a long flame path to transfer its energy to the stove.
2: Mid-range stoves for bituminous coal/ hard coal were built in a more solid way (thick castings, no steel), but would vent the gasses right into the chimney without a backpipe to extract more heat from the exhaust. Only the better, more expensive stoves came with an elaborated system of flues to extract as much heat out of the gasses as possible.

But I digress... :oops:
How much coal will it hold when filled to capacity? I´d say your stove should keep a fire over night if you can fit in more than 10lbs and IF (and that´s the important bit) the doors shut off unwanted air... maybe rope gasket is the simple key to your problem. M.Pierre nortcan is the expert for any questions concerning rope gasket; other users have successfully worked with thin layers of high temperature silicone around the rim of the ashpit door to stop unwanted air from entering the fire pot.
Maybe somebody else with knowledge on that will chime in as well....
firebug
 
Baseburners & Antiques: Felix 141 by Ludwigshütte, Germany (1914)
Coal Size/Type: Lignite Briquettes, Anthracite
Other Heating: natural gas hydronic heating

Re: Wittigsthal stove from Germany

PostBy: kweis On: Sun Jan 27, 2013 7:01 pm

firebug, the exhaust goes out the back just below the cooktop/lid. There used to be a firebrick deflector across the top just below the outlet whereby the gases would be directed around it back over and out. That firebrick was missing and I put a piece of steel in there which helps some until I can get a piece of firebrick cut for it. There are small ledges as part of the side firebricks that hold this baffel in place. I'll try to get addtional pictures. The only steel in it is the back plate which is actually in two sections. The rest is thick cast iron. I saw a smaller version of this stove a few months aog south of Harrisburg Pa. that still had the firebrick deflector in it. I think it will hold about 10 -15 pounds of coal not much more. I'll have to check on that. The doors aren't don't have gaskets but when closed have very close tolerences
kweis
 
Stove/Furnace Make: wittigsthal
Stove/Furnace Model: ?

Re: Wittigsthal stove from Germany

PostBy: kweis On: Sun Jan 27, 2013 11:34 pm

More pics. This camera isn't good with close ups. I tooks some close picture that were very good with an Olympus but I can't find the cord to download to the computer :mad: . firebug, the space of the firebox is just about 500 cubic inches.I'm pretty sure it would hold about 12 pounds plum full. It would be at least 10 pounds. If that could hold a fire for at least 8 hours that would be good for me for this stove.

Kevin
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kweis
 
Stove/Furnace Make: wittigsthal
Stove/Furnace Model: ?

Re: Wittigsthal stove from Germany

PostBy: firebug On: Mon Jan 28, 2013 5:04 am

Hey Kevin,
I´d say it s a medium-range stove that´ll burn whatever you feed it. Fire bricks with a ribbed surface would only be used for stoves that can burn bituminous or anthracite, too. The ribbed surface supposedly helps to transport volatiles to the surface of the coal bed and ignite them there.
My "Felix" has the more simple lining with an even surface - but it´s "only" a Brickettofen and is designed to meet the characteristics of Lignite Briquettes - e.g. I have 3 different vents to allow for combustion air to enter at 3 differnt levels. 10-12lbs of coal should be enough for a overnight burn at a low setting, depending on the quality and size of the coal you use, of course. nortcan and others get much longer burns with that amount of coal.
How is the quality of the lining in your stove? Mine has really thick firebricks and I believe (no scientific proof, though) that this helps me maintain a steady temp. in the fire box... the longest I can go with 12lbs (and that´s the absolute max the stove will take) is 8hrs if I want significant heat output and 12-14 hrs if I cut it all the way back and let it just slumber
firebug
 
Baseburners & Antiques: Felix 141 by Ludwigshütte, Germany (1914)
Coal Size/Type: Lignite Briquettes, Anthracite
Other Heating: natural gas hydronic heating

Re: Wittigsthal stove from Germany

PostBy: kweis On: Mon Jan 28, 2013 9:07 am

firebug, thanks for all the information. Can you verify where this was made in Germany? The firebrick in the Wittigsthal is about 1 1/2" thick. Some of it has worn away. Especially on the sides where the ribs are at. As you can see in thre photo someone previous to my ownership had overfired it quite often resulting in some of the vitrifying to the surface of the firebrick. I think this happens when the ash gets so hot it fuses to the brick like glass. Dosen't seem to affect the perfomance of the stove though. Couldn't get a picture under the stove top but that area has firebrick as well. Don't know how they duid that. An 8 hr burn would be good for me :) .
kweis
 
Stove/Furnace Make: wittigsthal
Stove/Furnace Model: ?

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