Boiler won't make temperature!

Re: Boiler won't make temperature!

PostBy: Flyer5 On: Tue Jan 29, 2013 8:56 pm

Buckslayer wrote:All this information makes sence. I think a lot of the information on Leisure Lines website and literature is very misleading on what this boiler can do. I have a very big gripe with the installer who told me to my face that the boiler would do what I wanted it to do. I am now running on oil and still running out of hot water. I was told I could run 5 gallons per minute from now to forever and never run out. That extra cost me $500.
I'm done messing with this. Tomorrow I'm going back to the way I was. The installer is taking this thing out of my house and putting a new boiler and oil fired water heater. At least I still have my stove to burn all this coal in! In the mean time I'll be looking into a real boiler that will actually fit my needs, and live up to what I expect. 4 tons of wasted coal for nothing. I gave them until Wednesday to fix it, and that's tomorrow. Im done.



I am not sure what happened or was said with your dealer. But we are working on this issue. Being that it is a new part that we do not stock and we had to verify the fix before just jumping out with this blower. The 5 gal coil should not have been a $500 option. I can tell you I have a 3gal coil and with a 1.5gal/ shower and a 5yr old daughter, we have steady hot water with the new blower. So with that being said, giving a unreasonable time frame to correct this problem is not the best answer. I cannot tell you what to do but I am asking for reasonable time to rectify this issue. I know you will be pleased once this is replaced. We have also asked you to call or PM us and have yet to hear from you.
Dave
Flyer5
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Leisure Line WL110
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: Leisure Line Pioneer

Re: Boiler won't make temperature!

PostBy: Rick 386 On: Tue Jan 29, 2013 10:28 pm

Buckslayer wrote:All this information makes sence. I think a lot of the information on Leisure Lines website and literature is very misleading on what this boiler can do. I have a very big gripe with the installer who told me to my face that the boiler would do what I wanted it to do. I am now running on oil and still running out of hot water. I was told I could run 5 gallons per minute from now to forever and never run out. That extra cost me $500.
I'm done messing with this. Tomorrow I'm going back to the way I was. The installer is taking this thing out of my house and putting a new boiler and oil fired water heater. At least I still have my stove to burn all this coal in! In the mean time I'll be looking into a real boiler that will actually fit my needs, and live up to what I expect. 4 tons of wasted coal for nothing. I gave them until Wednesday to fix it, and that's tomorrow. Im done.



Wow........................

So you tried to heat your house and provide unlimited DHW with a marginally sized coal boiler and it didn't work. You throw an unrealistic demand to resolve the issue in 3 days and that doesn't work so you want a new oil boiler that will be way more efficient than your old one but...but you are going to now add an oil fired hot water heater so that load will no longer affect your heating needs and you want to be pissed off and blame the coal boiler manufacturer???? The same manufacturer who personally came out on this board the same day you reported the problem to address the concern. And who admitted they recently found out they had a problem and are scrambling to resolve the problem as soon as they physically can.

Geez, I'm glad I never sold you anything.

Yes these are harsh words but I think between the manufacturer and those here who have tried to help you, you are being unreasonable with your expectation of burning coal to heat your house with the equipment you purchased. I think some of the blame can be put on the person you see in the mirror.




Rick
Rick 386
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: AA 260 heating both sides of twin farmhouse
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: LL Hyfire II w/ coaltrol in garage
Coal Size/Type: Pea in AA 260, Rice in LL Hyfire II
Other Heating: Gas fired infared at work

Re: Boiler won't make temperature!

PostBy: steamup On: Tue Jan 29, 2013 11:18 pm

I am not trying to stir a hornet's nest but simply point out picking out a boiler is not a simple task.

There is a reason most manufacturers, especially of HVAC equipment sell only through dealers and/or authorized distributers. The stuff is highly technical.

Unfortunely, the trades in general are suffering from a lack of qualified people. Many learn on the job through mistakes. This is for many reasons of which would warrant another thread.

Yes, Buckslayer, you were oversold by the installer but to say rip it out and start over is a knee jerk reaction.

I would calm down but keep steady pressure on the installer to offer cost effective solutions to your problem. Look at your goals. Are you looking for convienence or cost savings? To simply say you are going to oil indicates to me that coal was probably not for you in the first place.
steamup
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Axeman-Anderson AA-130, Keystoker K-6
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: HS Tarm 502 Wood/Coal/Oil
Coal Size/Type: pea, buck, rice

Visit Leisure Line Stove

Re: Boiler won't make temperature!

PostBy: franco b On: Wed Jan 30, 2013 12:14 am

[quote="I am now running on oil and still running out of hot water. [/quote]

This seems significant to me as with the oil burner it still does not provide domestic hot water. I have seen other reasons for this other than the boiler. I have seen washing machines and also shower faucets act as mixing valves and dilute the hot water with cold. Also if there is a mixing valve at the boiler it could be defective.

I do think the boiler is big enough and needs someone expert enough to troubleshoot the problem since it still exists using the oil burner.

I also think it fair to give the dealer and manufacturer time to make things right. They do guarantee the product and seem willing to honor that guarantee.
franco b
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: V ermont Castings 2310, Franco Belge 262
Baseburners & Antiques: Glenwood Modern Oak 114
Coal Size/Type: nut and pea

Re: Boiler won't make temperature!

PostBy: Berlin On: Wed Jan 30, 2013 3:56 am

Rick, I spend over 7K to install a heating system and it doesn't do what the literature and salesman/installer says it will, I'm cold and the hot water I'm promised isn't there, are you kidding me?? this guy is incredibly calm compared what my response would be.

Now, his expectations may well have been wrong considering the issue once the numbers are crunched and it's determined that the sizing is incorrect. Unfortunately, It wasn't his job to spend hours calculating and sizing boilers, that was his installer's job. Mistakes were made, but to place the blame at the feet of the end-user, the end-user that hired a boiler installer, the end user that went over what he wanted before it was installed, the end user that purchased a brand-new boiler being assured it would take care of his needs, is a serious misappropriation of blame here.

I have no interest in Leisure line or in any of their competitors, and I'm sure they're a great company with a good track record. However, to make a guy wait in the cold wasting coal with equiptment that won't even fire close to rated input because of a known issue with a blower is a misguided approach to customer service. Blowers are a dime a dozen, he should have been sent (or his installer should have been sent) Immediately one of the many readily available brands of blowers, that could be rigged up, even temporarily, to his equipment to move enough cfm @ pressure to produce at least the rating on the boiler.

Having said all that, If he hasn't responded to any sincere attempts to contact him and make this right, well, at that point, there's not much more Leisure Line can do.
Berlin
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Furnace: Will-Burt Combustioneer 77B
Coal Size/Type: Ohio BITUMINOUS pea stoker coal

Re: Boiler won't make temperature!

PostBy: Buckslayer On: Wed Jan 30, 2013 6:16 am

Flyer5 wrote: I am not sure what happened or was said with your dealer. But we are working on this issue. Being that it is a new part that we do not stock and we had to verify the fix before just jumping out with this blower. The 5 gal coil should not have been a $500 option. I can tell you I have a 3gal coil and with a 1.5gal/ shower and a 5yr old daughter, we have steady hot water with the new blower. So with that being said, giving a unreasonable time frame to correct this problem is not the best answer. I cannot tell you what to do but I am asking for reasonable time to rectify this issue. I know you will be pleased once this is replaced. We have also asked you to call or PM us and have yet to hear from you.
Dave


What is a "reasonable" time frame to fix a boiler when someone has no heat? As a landlord, I have 24 hours to fix a tenants heat or I'm in deep you know what. You have a defective product, and you wait on your suppliers? Once you located the problem, the replacement parts shoul have been drop shipped next day air to anyone affected and a supply sent to your dealers the same way! I've been going back and forth with my installer for two weeks, and it took me reporting them to the county to have any action taken. If this is how your company fixes customer issues, I'm glad they will be removing your product from my home. Once I am warm I will be researching a unit with a company who takes care of their customers. I've been dealing with my installer, who you should have heard from. I think everyone with your boiler should already have the replacement fans in their hands already. When someone has no heat waiting on parts and shipping is simply not acceptable.
Buckslayer
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Leisure Line
Stove/Furnace Model: 110k / lilheater

Re: Boiler won't make temperature!

PostBy: blrman07 On: Wed Jan 30, 2013 7:14 am

Lets timeline this thing:

Sunday Jan 27 10:51 AM Problem posted on an internet forum.
Sunday Jan 27 8:25 PM Problem ID'd by company with fix offered free of charge with a promise to ship the replacement part as soon as they get it, at their cost.

Note the day of the week.......... SUNDAY

Now you truthfully tell me how many other companies monitor an internet site trolling for customer complaints on a SUNDAY???? And then offer to fix it free of charge by shipping the needed part at their expense as soon as they can get the part into their company? They offered to fix the problem and made repeated requests for a contact by the customer who never contacted them directly. It seems to me like LL has provided extreme customer service here.

Try this little ditty on a Sunday with the MANUFACTURER of virtually any other product you have in your house and see how far you get.

After watching the way Leisure Line went way beyond over and above any expectation of customer service, I will refer everyone who ever asks me about a coal boiler/stove/furnace to Leisure Line. They Id'd the problem and offered a fix free of charge ASAP with no hassling, arguing, or finger pointing.
Rev. Larry
blrman07
 
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: Bucket a Day
Hand Fed Coal Stove: installing a VC 2310
Coal Size/Type: Pea/Nut/Wood in the VC and anything that will fit in the Bucket a Day. It's not fussy.

Re: Boiler won't make temperature!

PostBy: Rigar On: Wed Jan 30, 2013 7:34 am

Buckslayer...

Liesure Line is not the problem here....this falls on your installer/dealer
Granted the fan is inadequate...however..its been identified and youre getting a new one...SENT TO YOU.
i emphasize that because my brandnew keystoker ate 3 convection blowers up in the first week.
All warrantied btw...but i had to make a 2 HR trip each time this happened
The final motor has been wrkin fine (diff batch)
Now my limit switch is "sticking"...
Callex my dealer...who called keystone..and its warrantied (i knew it was...only two-tree months old)
But guess what? I gotta pull the switch and take it to them to get my new one.
My point is...LL has gone over and above what most manufactures would do.
Install an undsrsized oil fired boiler and see how far you get with THAT manufacturer.
You need to be on your dealers ass... not LL
Rigar
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Furnace: Keystoker A 150
Coal Size/Type: anthracite rice
Stove/Furnace Make: Keystoker
Stove/Furnace Model: A 150 warm air furnace

Re: Boiler won't make temperature!

PostBy: titleist1 On: Wed Jan 30, 2013 8:51 am

Buckslayer wrote: I've been going back and forth with my installer for two weeks, and it took me reporting them to the county to have any action taken. If this is how your company fixes customer issues, I'm glad they will be removing your product from my home. Once I am warm I will be researching a unit with a company who takes care of their customers. I've been dealing with my installer, who you should have heard from. I think everyone with your boiler should already have the replacement fans in their hands already. When someone has no heat waiting on parts and shipping is simply not acceptable.


I'd have been at least as upset as you given what you were told by your installer and the performance you are getting. You are pretty patient to do the back and forth for two weeks with them. What company is this so that other potential customers are aware of your experience with them? I would not have been as patient in the middle of cold weather, maybe in the summer, but not during that cold snap.

I would have bypassed them pretty quickly and made sure that LL had my contact info so that I COULD get the fan drop shipped to me directly. Apparently they don't have your info to do as you requested unless you sent it to them after 8 last night.

From what I have read it seems a couple fudge factor lessons learned from this unfortunate episode....
Don't size a solid fuel boiler so close to the installed oil or gas boiler since performance has more variability
Do your own heat load calculations.
Don't size boiler components so close to performance design spec's, oversize it (talkin' about the combustion fan here) and be able to throttle it back (that is the advice given here quite often when sizing a stove)
Last edited by titleist1 on Wed Jan 30, 2013 1:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.
titleist1
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: Harman Mag Stoker (old style) one in basement, one in workshop
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Harman Mark III on standby for long power outages
Coal Size/Type: Rice/Anthracite; Nut/Anthracite

Re: Boiler won't make temperature!

PostBy: SteveZee On: Wed Jan 30, 2013 10:32 am

titleist1 wrote:
Buckslayer wrote: I've been going back and forth with my installer for two weeks, and it took me reporting them to the county to have any action taken. If this is how your company fixes customer issues, I'm glad they will be removing your product from my home. Once I am warm I will be researching a unit with a company who takes care of their customers. I've been dealing with my installer, who you should have heard from. I think everyone with your boiler should already have the replacement fans in their hands already. When someone has no heat waiting on parts and shipping is simply not acceptable.


I'd have been at least as upset as you given what you were told by your installer and the performance you are getting. You are pretty patient to do the back and forth for two weeks with them. What company is this so that other potential customers are aware of your experience with them? I would not have been as patient in the middle of cold weather, maybe in the summer, but not during that cold snap.

I would have bypassed them pretty quickly and made sure that LL had my contact info so that I COULD get the fan drop shipped to me directly. Apparently they don't have your info to do as you requested unless you sent it to them after 8 last night.

From what I have read it seems a couple fudge factor lessons learned from this unfortunate episode....
Don't size a solid fuel boiler so close to the installed oil or gas boiler since performance has more variability
Do your own heat load calculations.
Don't size boiler components so close to performance design spec's, oversize it and be able to throttle it back (that is the advice given here quite often when sizing a stove)


I agree with Titleist on this. I can certainly understand this mans's frustration, but I also think Dave & Matt at LL are doing the best they can for an unfortunate situation considering the Dealer is at fault here. If it were me, before I went through the tear out process, I would at least try the new blower. It might make the difference and your good to go. At this point what's another day or two? JMO. I do agree that bigger (to a degree) is better certainly for a stove but with a boiler, at least an oil fired you want to be fairly close to the load to cycle correctly.
After reading the excellent post by Steamup, I can see that the coal boiler doesn't exactly follow the same rules as a dino burner.
Last edited by SteveZee on Wed Jan 30, 2013 10:38 am, edited 1 time in total.
SteveZee
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Glenwood Modern Oak 116 & Glenwood 208 C Range

Re: Boiler won't make temperature!

PostBy: Lightning On: Wed Jan 30, 2013 10:38 am

I agree, get the new blower and burn the coal completely... I heat a bigger house with less coal.. IF you can't get enough heat from 100 pounds a day, there is something else wrong..
Lightning
 
Hand Fed Coal Furnace: Clayton 1537G
Coal Size/Type: Nut Size / White Ash

Re: Boiler won't make temperature!

PostBy: Buckslayer On: Wed Jan 30, 2013 10:48 am

blrman07 wrote:Lets timeline this thing:

Sunday Jan 27 10:51 AM Problem posted on an internet forum.
Sunday Jan 27 8:25 PM Problem ID'd by company with fix offered free of charge with a promise to ship the replacement part as soon as they get it, at their cost.

Note the day of the week.......... SUNDAY

Now you truthfully tell me how many other companies monitor an internet site trolling for customer complaints on a SUNDAY???? And then offer to fix it free of charge by shipping the needed part at their expense as soon as they can get the part into their company? They offered to fix the problem and made repeated requests for a contact by the customer who never contacted them directly. It seems to me like LL has provided extreme customer service here.

Try this little ditty on a Sunday with the MANUFACTURER of virtually any other product you have in your house and see how far you get.

After watching the way Leisure Line went way beyond over and above any expectation of customer service, I will refer everyone who ever asks me about a coal boiler/stove/furnace to Leisure Line. They Id'd the problem and offered a fix free of charge ASAP with no hassling, arguing, or finger pointing.
Rev. Larry


My installer knew about the problem 10 days earlier. I payed them, it's their responsibility to deal with it. I was messaged by other members here that Leisure Line knew about this problem way before Sunday and I was t the first one complaining about it. Just the first one to complain publicly.
Buckslayer
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Leisure Line
Stove/Furnace Model: 110k / lilheater

Re: Boiler won't make temperature!

PostBy: Buckslayer On: Wed Jan 30, 2013 10:51 am

Berlin wrote:Rick, I spend over 7K to install a heating system and it doesn't do what the literature and salesman/installer says it will, I'm cold and the hot water I'm promised isn't there, are you kidding me?? this guy is incredibly calm compared what my response would be.

Now, his expectations may well have been wrong considering the issue once the numbers are crunched and it's determined that the sizing is incorrect. Unfortunately, It wasn't his job to spend hours calculating and sizing boilers, that was his installer's job. Mistakes were made, but to place the blame at the feet of the end-user, the end-user that hired a boiler installer, the end user that went over what he wanted before it was installed, the end user that purchased a brand-new boiler being assured it would take care of his needs, is a serious misappropriation of blame here.

I have no interest in Leisure line or in any of their competitors, and I'm sure they're a great company with a good track record. However, to make a guy wait in the cold wasting coal with equiptment that won't even fire close to rated input because of a known issue with a blower is a misguided approach to customer service. Blowers are a dime a dozen, he should have been sent (or his installer should have been sent) Immediately one of the many readily available brands of blowers, that could be rigged up, even temporarily, to his equipment to move enough cfm @ pressure to produce at least the rating on the boiler.

Having said all that, If he hasn't responded to any sincere attempts to contact him and make this right, well, at that point, there's not much more Leisure Line can do.


My point, I don't know where the communication broke down between my installer and the manufacturer. Not my problem. Long story short, I payed out good money for something that doesn't work as promised, and it took me reporting them to get them to do something.
Buckslayer
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Leisure Line
Stove/Furnace Model: 110k / lilheater

Re: Boiler won't make temperature!

PostBy: Buckslayer On: Wed Jan 30, 2013 10:52 am

Rigar wrote:Buckslayer...

Liesure Line is not the problem here....this falls on your installer/dealer
Granted the fan is inadequate...however..its been identified and youre getting a new one...SENT TO YOU.
i emphasize that because my brandnew keystoker ate 3 convection blowers up in the first week.
All warrantied btw...but i had to make a 2 HR trip each time this happened
The final motor has been wrkin fine (diff batch)
Now my limit switch is "sticking"...
Callex my dealer...who called keystone..and its warrantied (i knew it was...only two-tree months old)
But guess what? I gotta pull the switch and take it to them to get my new one.
My point is...LL has gone over and above what most manufactures would do.
Install an undsrsized oil fired boiler and see how far you get with THAT manufacturer.
You need to be on your dealers ass... not LL


I am on my installers ass, its up to them to get me parts and fix my problem.
Buckslayer
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Leisure Line
Stove/Furnace Model: 110k / lilheater

Re: Boiler won't make temperature!

PostBy: SteveZee On: Wed Jan 30, 2013 11:22 am

Buckslayer wrote:
Rigar wrote:Buckslayer...

Liesure Line is not the problem here....this falls on your installer/dealer
Granted the fan is inadequate...however..its been identified and youre getting a new one...SENT TO YOU.
i emphasize that because my brandnew keystoker ate 3 convection blowers up in the first week.
All warrantied btw...but i had to make a 2 HR trip each time this happened
The final motor has been wrkin fine (diff batch)
Now my limit switch is "sticking"...
Callex my dealer...who called keystone..and its warrantied (i knew it was...only two-tree months old)
But guess what? I gotta pull the switch and take it to them to get my new one.
My point is...LL has gone over and above what most manufactures would do.
Install an undsrsized oil fired boiler and see how far you get with THAT manufacturer.
You need to be on your dealers ass... not LL


I am on my installers ass, its up to them to get me parts and fix my problem.

Buckslayer, Maybe you'll get that blower by tomorrow or Fri and can give it try? At this point you might as well, but I sure do undertand your frustration.
SteveZee
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Glenwood Modern Oak 116 & Glenwood 208 C Range

Visit Leisure Line Stove

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