Boiler won't make temperature!

Re: Boiler won't make temperature!

PostBy: jpen1 On: Fri Feb 01, 2013 1:52 am

I certainly understand your frustraition with the boiler so far but what I can tell you is I have never ever had a problem meeting either my domestic hot water needs and or my heating needs with my LL110 in 3 winters. That being said I have the first production unit out there in operation so my combustion fan is of an earlier vintage. I will have some pictures soon as the boiler just started to run for a heat cycle. If you are not seing flames wrapping around the diffuser plate at a full burn then you certainly have an issue. For one thing you should have no more than -.02 draft in the base of the boiler. If it is higher than that you are sending the heat up the chimney. You said that the baro is maxed out, if that is true you need a larger baro damper installed. Just because you have a 6" dia. flue pipe, that doesn't necessarily mean you need a 6" baro. In some instances an 8" or larger may be required depending on the drafting ability of your chimney. Also is you coal bed on the grate as deep as the sides of you grate? Also you mention burning only reading or blashack rice coal, both of which for me would be about the last resort. Try burning some buckwheat and see what happens. That being said i think your expectations of any boiler in that size class are unrealistic. Your oil boiler of 85,000 btu's would never keep up with last weeks heat load and the domestic load you are trying to pull off. I have attached some picture for reference. The first is my boiler coming out of idle and the second shows the flames hitting the diverter at only about a 70% burn rate.
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just coming out of an idle state
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at about a 70% burn rate
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jpen1
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Leisure Line
Stove/Furnace Model: 110 Boiler

Re: Boiler won't make temperature!

PostBy: Rigar On: Fri Feb 01, 2013 11:02 am

I think one important reason his oil fired boiler "never could"keep up with the recent cold snap is because it didnt have to.
HE SUPPLEMENTED HIS OIL BOILER WITH A COAL STOVE.

... in his original post he immediately refers to his coal stove that used to use ( stating he was happy that he did not sell it)
here's what I think happened
he burned oil AND coal in the past.
realised the savings with coal and decided to eliminate the oil boiler and replace it with a coal boiler.
and subsequently eliminated the coal stove at the same time.
it's possible there are some other issues hee- sizing... draft... possibly undersized fan...coal quality...etc
... but the bottom line is he is not comparing apples to apples.
...up until this winter...the oiler had its load reduced by the stove.
Rigar
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Furnace: Keystoker A 150
Coal Size/Type: anthracite rice
Stove/Furnace Make: Keystoker
Stove/Furnace Model: A 150 warm air furnace

Re: Boiler won't make temperature!

PostBy: Paulie On: Fri Feb 01, 2013 5:19 pm

Wonder if he got his system figured out? Lotta noise then crickets..... :?:
Paulie
 
Stove/Furnace Make: leisure Line
Stove/Furnace Model: Pioneer

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Re: Boiler won't make temperature!

PostBy: jeff216410 On: Fri Feb 01, 2013 5:43 pm

I got through the real cold spell by just raising my boiler temps I put the low limit at 190 and the high at 200 and maxed the differential temp at 25 degrees. I have 5 zones of heat in my house and way too much volume of water in the iron piping feeding the iron baseboards it took a little while to get the whole mass up to temperature but once at temp my boiler worked fine. I probably about maxed out the boiler as far as output but the raised low limit helped all the zones get hotter water. The DHW was great with the raised low limit too. I think I'll keep it there until springtime when there are less calls for heat. My house is not that well insulated either and I have 3 cathedral ceilings and a bedroom over a garage. My coal does not seem to be the greatest this year either. I burn about 80 pounds a day, maybe a touch more if it is below freezing all day and single digits at night. Most of the house sits on 70 degrees all day.

I used to burn at least 600 gallons of oil AND 6 tons of coal in my Hearth model stove during the winter as additional heat in the basement and much of it trickles upstairs.

I saved a full ton of coal a year by replacing 6 windows in my house.

I now burn about 7 tons of coal a year in my LL110K boiler and 0 gallons of oil. Plus, the house in comfortably warm usually 70 degrees all winter.
jeff216410
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Liesure Line Hearth

Re: Boiler won't make temperature!

PostBy: stoker_RI On: Fri Feb 01, 2013 5:47 pm

Rigar wrote:I think one important reason his oil fired boiler "never could"keep up with the recent cold snap is because it didnt have to.
HE SUPPLEMENTED HIS OIL BOILER WITH A COAL STOVE.

... in his original post he immediately refers to his coal stove that used to use ( stating he was happy that he did not sell it)
here's what I think happened
he burned oil AND coal in the past.
realised the savings with coal and decided to eliminate the oil boiler and replace it with a coal boiler.
and subsequently eliminated the coal stove at the same time.
it's possible there are some other issues hee- sizing... draft... possibly undersized fan...coal quality...etc
... but the bottom line is he is not comparing apples to apples.
...up until this winter...the oiler had its load reduced by the stove.


I'd have to agree...good pick up! At the same time though, the issue with the boiler is real...he is just experiencing the worst possible outcome at once..it is very possible that even the corrected boiler still may not suffice due to the load
stoker_RI
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Leisure Line
Stove/Furnace Model: WL 110 Boiler

Re: Boiler won't make temperature!

PostBy: Joeski On: Sat Feb 02, 2013 1:26 am

I must say all the people who are oh so good with running boilers and everything involved with calculating heat loads & BTU's have taught me a lot in this one thread. I don't know if we will ever hear from the guy who started this thread but thanks for having posted it. It really is a good one. I hope your warm & toasty right now with everything working as it should be and it stays that way for a long time. Lighten up there's no need to be :mad:
Joeski
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Reading
Stove/Furnace Model: Susquehanna

Re: Boiler won't make temperature!

PostBy: SteveZee On: Sat Feb 02, 2013 11:13 am

I would like to hear how the new blower worked out and if that solved his problem.
SteveZee
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Glenwood Modern Oak 116 & Glenwood 208 C Range

Re: Boiler won't make temperature!

PostBy: stoker_RI On: Sat Feb 02, 2013 12:32 pm

SteveZee wrote:I would like to hear how the new blower worked out and if that solved his problem.


I've got mine installed...put it in Thursday night...which happened to be a night that was VERY windy, and unusually mild! (55 degrees). So those conditions were not the best for setting the variables..
Yesterday the temps were dropping, and I had been waiting till this morning to report any findings until I had some cold temps and a couple of days use under my belt...

Well it didn't get as cold as I wanted this morning..got down to 18...BUT I CAN tell you the fan makes a MAJOR difference in the boiler!.. The flame DOES now reach the diffuser and up past the sides of it all the way up to the tubes, I can now get higher breach draft readings that I have not been able to get all season, and the boiler as a whole is more more sensitive and responsive to adjustments.

What I can tell you, is up to this point this season, to keep the house and hot water up to temp, I have been using the boiler, AND an Alaska stoker stove in the basement, AND a wood pellet stove in the family room...I would normally keep the upsatairs zone at 66-67 in the, day, 63-64 at night, and the first floor set at 67 day, supplemented by the pellet stove, 65 at night.

Oh!,,and during that severere cold spell, when outside temps were 2-4 in the morning and 18 for a high, even with the supplimental hit, I would get up in the morning and my first floor zone would be below set point by 3 or 4 degrees..

Now, of course, to compare apples to apples, we would have to have that same type of weather again (we may not for the rest of the season). So for purposes of testing, I discontinued the use of the indoor stoves, and relied soley on the boiler for floors 1 and 2 and my tankless DHW which is prioritized. (so currently the basement is not being heated..I do have a baseboard zone there off the boiler, but would not expect the boiler to heat that as well..it is a finished walk out...and it brings the total heated sq footage to about 4000 sq ft....the first 2 floors combined are about 2800 sq ft, which I was told the boiler would handle) I also turned up the heat a bit to 69 on the first floor, and 66 on the second floor..and left them there on hold.

So last evening was cold..in the low 20's..and this morning was 18...and the house is at temp, the boiler is cycling on and off..it is not running non-stop to keep up...very encourageing!...I would not expect similar performance from the boiler with the old fan..Of course it remains to be seen how it would do during the previous cold conditions, but there is no denying that there is a big change for the better!...
Of course I can't vouch for what the amount of btu the boiler is putting out, or if it is performing as advertised, but prior to this it seemed to be putting out about 55K btu, and I am sure it is putting out more than that now!

Let me add my kudos for Dave at LL to those who question the companies' commitment to its customers .... Dave promised me a fan on a particular day, and he delivered...and I know he had to jump through hoops to do so..he has also been readily available through this forum and on the phone...certaintly a man of integrity...Its regretable that this problem occurred, and that buyers had to find out the hard way, but its also regretable that the Owners had to find out this way, keep in mind...and when they did realize there was a problem, they took action...I don't think anyone can ask for more than that!

Since I am 1 of the first 2 or 3 to install the new fan, anyone is free to PM me or post a reply here and I will respond and be as helpful as I can!..

Now if that installer from NY had any integrity at all, he could have been in touch with LL about getting a replacement fan and keeping his dis-gruntled customer happy....!
stoker_RI
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Leisure Line
Stove/Furnace Model: WL 110 Boiler

Re: Boiler won't make temperature!

PostBy: SteveZee On: Sat Feb 02, 2013 12:52 pm

Sounds like it's doing allot better! Great news. Can't expect miracles for that size but it really sounds like it's doing it's job pretty well.
SteveZee
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Glenwood Modern Oak 116 & Glenwood 208 C Range

Re: Boiler won't make temperature!

PostBy: franco b On: Sat Feb 02, 2013 1:05 pm

Good to hear you have had such positive results.

Hard to understand why the original poster or the dealer did not get in touch with a maker who was ready,willing, even anxious to help. Just seems crazy to me or that there is more to the story.

The rapid response of LL to a problem will stick in my head far more than the fact there was a problem. Any maker of anything will have problems from time to time and to meet those problems in a timely fashion is the mark of a very desirable company and should build confidence that the product and company can be relied on.
franco b
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: V ermont Castings 2310, Franco Belge 262
Baseburners & Antiques: Glenwood Modern Oak 114
Coal Size/Type: nut and pea

Re: Boiler won't make temperature!

PostBy: baddawg On: Sat Feb 02, 2013 5:30 pm

All I can say is "wow". I have been a member of this forum for over a year (still kinda a noob) I had lurked for over a year before I joined you guys while we were still burning wood and looking for something better. This forum was a big part of my wife and I switching to coal, because I knew If I had a problem you guys would help without making me feel like a ass. I spend most of my time here reading and learning, I am not a very social person that makes a lot of friends,just the way I am I guess, it sucks sometimes but I enjoy coming here as it feels like family. I don't post a lot because if I don't know for sure what I am saying is 100% right, I just don't do it.

When looking for a stove, I did what I always do.(as the wife says) I research it to death. In my search, I spent a lot of time here and other web sites, I went to many stove dealers. I don't think that some of the LL dealers do the company any justice and that initsself is a whole story. I had finally came down to a Alaska stoker or a LL stoker. I was on here one night still trying to figure out what to do and I saw a post of someone having a issue with there LL stove on a Sunday. When the reply came from Dave at LL to call him with his cell number posted on the WWW for everyone to see, I looked no farther, I bought the LL Pioneer, and never have I ever thought I did the wrong thing.

I have talked to Dave on the phone, PM'ed him a bunch, and met him in person, He has always gone above and beyond what most companies would do. This is the way I treat my customers and always wondered if it made a difference and if they really cared, but when I got treated the same way from LL, I know it makes a difference.

So I don't have a boiler, I did read the entire thread from start to finish, a lot of it don't mean a damn thing to me. Thing is and I try not to flame or be a dick because it does not fit in on this forum and I try to respect Richards rules, I can not understand why some people only want to come on and bitch when something is wrong without trying any other means of solving the problem and then vanish without a trace. I command everyone here for not flaming him into the ground and trying to help, no matter what a ass he was being. Any other forum and he would be in hiding. I think everyone here should pat themselves on the back for not being a BOB.
baddawg
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Leisure Line
Stove/Furnace Model: Pioneer BV

Re: Boiler won't make temperature!

PostBy: Rigar On: Sat Feb 02, 2013 6:21 pm

:cheers: baddawg....
Rigar
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Furnace: Keystoker A 150
Coal Size/Type: anthracite rice
Stove/Furnace Make: Keystoker
Stove/Furnace Model: A 150 warm air furnace

Re: Boiler won't make temperature!

PostBy: Rob R. On: Sat Feb 02, 2013 7:35 pm

So what happened? Did he rip the boiler out and kick it off the porch?
Rob R.
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: EFM DF520
Coal Size/Type: Rice/buck
Other Heating: Dad's 1953 EFM Highboy

Re: Boiler won't make temperature!

PostBy: Flyer5 On: Sat Feb 02, 2013 7:49 pm

Rob R. wrote:So what happened? Did he rip the boiler out and kick it off the porch?



I have no idea. I do wish we could resolve this though. Maybe coal just wasn't for him. I have not heard from anyone that fits this issue.Actually everyone I have spoke with has been very understanding and polite.
Flyer5
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Leisure Line WL110
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: Leisure Line Pioneer

Re: Boiler won't make temperature!

PostBy: KLook On: Sat Feb 02, 2013 7:59 pm

Hard to say where he went, might have been a knowledgeable troll. I will say my harman has been undersized but working in a cape in Maine over 2000 sq. ft. easily. I went home last week and was greeted with the coal boiler running wide open, all zones calling, and 130* water in it. :shock: Now I added some loads to the boiler last summer, quite a bit actually, and changed a bunch of controls. It was somewhere in the neighborhood of 0* and the wind was screaming. I turned the high setting to 200* and raised the temp for the gas to kick on, giving the coal a chance to recover. All worked out in a few hours and discovered that the aquastat was not working properly for the high setting so replaced, and no more problem. It is hard to heat a fair size house in subzero temps with a 95000 btu boiler without knowing how to adjust it and supplement it if necessary.
After reading through this whole thread, I will restate what I have said earlier in the year, I will not hesitate to buy from LL if I have the need and opportunity. The customer service is exceptional.

Kevin
KLook
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Harman VF 3000
Coal Size/Type: rice, bagged, Blaschak
Stove/Furnace Make: Harman (Back In Maine)
Stove/Furnace Model: VF 3000

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