Boiler won't make temperature!

Re: Boiler won't make temperature!

PostBy: Buckslayer On: Sun Jan 27, 2013 5:42 pm

Dennis wrote:just a silly question,but does the boiler get to 180 degrees without a load on it.


Yup. Before my wife got in the shower it was at 200. I had the stove cranking today and the boiler hasn't had to run.

I guess the tankless is too much load. I had a cold shower after my wife.
Buckslayer
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Leisure Line
Stove/Furnace Model: 110k / lilheater

Re: Boiler won't make temperature!

PostBy: Dennis On: Sun Jan 27, 2013 6:03 pm

DHW takes a lot af BTU's,a DHW storage tank might help with that problem
Dennis
 
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: AHS/WOC55-multi-fuel/wood,oil,coal
Coal Size/Type: Anthracite/stove size

Re: Boiler won't make temperature!

PostBy: plumber On: Sun Jan 27, 2013 6:23 pm

I have my tankless circulating through a storage tank. I recommend that for all installations. It adds a lot of fudge factor, and you get steady water temperatures.
plumber
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: EFM 350

Visit Leisure Line Stove

Re: Boiler won't make temperature!

PostBy: Buckslayer On: Sun Jan 27, 2013 7:19 pm

Dennis wrote:DHW takes a lot af BTU's,a DHW storage tank might help with that problem


The boiler doesn't keep up with my hot water needs! I payed extra for a 5 gallon coil, the boiler should make 5 gallons.
Buckslayer
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Leisure Line
Stove/Furnace Model: 110k / lilheater

Re: Boiler won't make temperature!

PostBy: franco b On: Sun Jan 27, 2013 8:52 pm

You would need about 120,000 Btu per hour to raise water temperature 50 degrees at a rate of 5 gallons per minute for one hour. Most use a restricter to limit out put to 3 gallons per minute which is usually adequate and usually demand is not for one hour steadily. Also the reverse aquastat should cut off the circulator at 140 degrees. At your firing rate you could produce a little over 2 gallons per minute for an hour with 50 degree rise.
franco b
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: V ermont Castings 2310, Franco Belge 262
Baseburners & Antiques: Glenwood Modern Oak 114
Coal Size/Type: nut and pea

Re: Boiler won't make temperature!

PostBy: lsayre On: Sun Jan 27, 2013 8:57 pm

If I did the math correctly it takes 175,000 BTU's per hour (as output, not input) just to bring 5 GPM of initially 50 degree water up to 120 degrees.

At 80% efficiency that would require nearly 220,000 BTU's of input.
Last edited by lsayre on Sun Jan 27, 2013 9:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.
lsayre
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: AHS S130 Coal Gun
Coal Size/Type: Anthracite Pea
Other Heating: Resistance Boiler (if I ever get it fixed)

Re: Boiler won't make temperature!

PostBy: Buckslayer On: Sun Jan 27, 2013 9:01 pm

franco b wrote:You would need about 120,000 Btu per hour to raise water temperature 50 degrees at a rate of 5 gallons per minute for one hour. Most use a restricter to limit out put to 3 gallons per minute which is usually adequate and usually demand is not for one hour steadily. Also the reverse aquastat should cut off the circulator at 140 degrees. At your firing rate you could produce a little over 2 gallons per minute for an hour with 50 degree rise.


So even at the 110000 btus they advertise I can't get 5 gallons per minute? Why do they sell a 5 gallon coil? I payed extra money to get 5 gallons per minute!

CAN THIS BOILER DO ANYTHING LEISURE LINE CLAIMS IT CAN!????

For the kind of money I spent, I expect to get what I payed for. I'm not even getting a fraction of that. From what I've gathered today I'm not the only one with the same problems. What's going on here?
Buckslayer
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Leisure Line
Stove/Furnace Model: 110k / lilheater

Re: Boiler won't make temperature!

PostBy: franco b On: Sun Jan 27, 2013 9:12 pm

Buckslayer wrote:So even at the 110000 btus they advertise I can't get 5 gallons per minute? Why do they sell a 5 gallon coil? I payed extra money to get 5 gallons per minute!


The 5 gallon coil gives faster recovery time and provides a little extra as the coil loses efficiency over time.

The bigger concern is why 100 pound a day is not giving you enough heat, especially in a modern house. Even radiant losses from the boiler and piping are in the heated area.
franco b
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: V ermont Castings 2310, Franco Belge 262
Baseburners & Antiques: Glenwood Modern Oak 114
Coal Size/Type: nut and pea

Re: Boiler won't make temperature!

PostBy: lsayre On: Sun Jan 27, 2013 9:15 pm

Buckslayer wrote:
franco b wrote:You would need about 120,000 Btu per hour to raise water temperature 50 degrees at a rate of 5 gallons per minute for one hour. Most use a restricter to limit out put to 3 gallons per minute which is usually adequate and usually demand is not for one hour steadily. Also the reverse aquastat should cut off the circulator at 140 degrees. At your firing rate you could produce a little over 2 gallons per minute for an hour with 50 degree rise.


So even at the 110000 btus they advertise I can't get 5 gallons per minute? Why do they sell a 5 gallon coil? I payed extra money to get 5 gallons per minute!


To be fair, most calls for hot water are measured in minutes, not hours, and for a few minutes it should handle the task. Also, to be fair, 5 GPM is a lot of flow, and so is 3 GPM. Most shower heads are probably delivering in the 2 to 2.5 GPM range.
lsayre
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: AHS S130 Coal Gun
Coal Size/Type: Anthracite Pea
Other Heating: Resistance Boiler (if I ever get it fixed)

Re: Boiler won't make temperature!

PostBy: johnniecuse On: Sun Jan 27, 2013 9:17 pm

Yes, I have had the same issues. The boiler is running constantly and I can only get the house up to 62 on real cold days. It was 22F today and I got the house to 66F.

I spoke to Matthaus a couple of times this week and he said many owners are experiencing the same thing. The combustion air fan is simply undersized for the extreme low temperatures. Hopefully they will have new fans available this week.
johnniecuse
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Leisure Line 110K Boiler
Coal Size/Type: Rice

Re: Boiler won't make temperature!

PostBy: Rick 386 On: Sun Jan 27, 2013 9:23 pm

Buckslayer,

I have an AA 260 with I believe a 7 gpm coil in it. If the boiler drops to 140*, we get cold showers. And that temp is also where it shuts off the circulators. And my AA 260 certainly hold more water than your LL110. I try to keep an eye on the boiler temp before me and the wife get our back to back showers. Otherwise 1 of us is getting cool water. This past week has been brutal for a lot of us. Temps that we haven't seen in 2 years and with wind.

Call LL tomorrow and I'm sure they will get you straightened out. It appears that a larger fan will help you and the others out.




Rick
Rick 386
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: AA 260 heating both sides of twin farmhouse
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: LL Hyfire II w/ coaltrol in garage
Coal Size/Type: Pea in AA 260, Rice in LL Hyfire II
Other Heating: Gas fired infared at work

Re: Boiler won't make temperature!

PostBy: Flyer5 On: Sun Jan 27, 2013 9:25 pm

The blower will correct the issue. I have one installed on my boiler since Thursday for testing. I was able to get my 2900sq ft leak box up to 80* with 0* or single digits outside. Recovery times are very much improved . It seems the blower for some reason is effected by the static pressure much more than realised, I believe the supplier for the blower wheels has changed in the last 2 yrs. This may have something to do with it. I am finding just over .3 static pressure on the blower at the feeder during operation. This cuts the standard fan down to about 40cfm and is not enough. The new blower gives 60 CFM at .3 and does a much better job.

To make a long story short we will correct the issue, and we apologize for the inconvenience. So give Matt or me a call or PM us and as soon as we get the fans in we will get them out too those who need them.

Thanks, Dave
Flyer5
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Leisure Line WL110
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: Leisure Line Pioneer

Re: Boiler won't make temperature!

PostBy: lsayre On: Sun Jan 27, 2013 9:31 pm

You absolutely can't beat the level of concern, assistance, attentiveness, fairness, and honesty in bringing full satisfaction to the owners of their products that Leisure Line offers to its customers. Just being willing to openly participate on this forum is a great testimony to this.
lsayre
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: AHS S130 Coal Gun
Coal Size/Type: Anthracite Pea
Other Heating: Resistance Boiler (if I ever get it fixed)

Re: Boiler won't make temperature!

PostBy: stoker_RI On: Sun Jan 27, 2013 10:09 pm

Flyer5 wrote:The blower will correct the issue. I have one installed on my boiler since Thursday for testing. I was able to get my 2900sq ft leak box up to 80* with 0* or single digits outside. Recovery times are very much improved . It seems the blower for some reason is effected by the static pressure much more than realised, I believe the supplier for the blower wheels has changed in the last 2 yrs. This may have something to do with it. I am finding just over .3 static pressure on the blower at the feeder during operation. This cuts the standard fan down to about 40cfm and is not enough. The new blower gives 60 CFM at .3 and does a much better job.

To make a long story short we will correct the issue, and we apologize for the inconvenience. So give Matt or me a call or PM us and as soon as we get the fans in we will get them out too those who need them.

Thanks, Dave


Dave..can you elaborate on the relationship between static air in the base and the current fan?

-isn't the stock fan rated at 60 cfm also? Is the new fan the same brand?
-with the old fan, what would u expect your home temps to be?
-are you seeing an increase in coal usage? And/or are u able to burn more coal?
-Are you burning rice or buck?...fyi...no buck anywhere in New England that I know of.
THANKS
stoker_RI
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Leisure Line
Stove/Furnace Model: WL 110 Boiler

Re: Boiler won't make temperature!

PostBy: Rigar On: Sun Jan 27, 2013 10:29 pm

Lol...while we're asking questions...i got some too ( I've been following this post... And i have stayed out of it until now)
...matthaus stated.
LL ran boilers for 2 days... flat out... while doingUL testing
flat out they were able to burn 65 pounds of coal per operation shift....
how many hours is an operation shift ??
testing resulted in BTU output of 85000 to 101000 ...
.... how or why is this boiler rated at 110 000 btu ?
... I know leisure line will stand behind their product... I just was curious as to some numbers...

.... bottom line... the boiler does seem to be lacking combustion air.
.. there is a correlation between supply air... draft...and stack velocity
... regardless... I would suggest 10-15 cfm (comb air)/ lb coal...minimum

thanks...and stay warm
Rigar
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Furnace: Keystoker A 150
Coal Size/Type: anthracite rice
Stove/Furnace Make: Keystoker
Stove/Furnace Model: A 150 warm air furnace

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