Boiler won't make temperature!

Boiler won't make temperature!

PostBy: Buckslayer On: Sun Jan 27, 2013 11:51 am

Im glad i found this forum it looks like a lot of helpful people here. As cold as its been, I've had to fire up my stove to supplement the heat from my boiler. Im happy i haven't sold the stove yet. The boiler has been running non stop all week and will not go over about 150. I had my buddy who is an oil man look at the boiler and was told the baseboard needs 180 degree water to work properly. At 150 I'm not getting the btus out of the baseboard to heat my house. My house is 1800 sf with 140 feet of baseboard. My buddy said he installed the baseboard to be 10 % over my heat loss, but needs 180 degree water. My heat loss is 80000 btus so a 110000 btu boiler shouldn't have a problem keeping up. From what I read here I learned about coal has about 13000 btu per pound. I'm averaging 100 pounds per day and the boiler does not shut off. At that rate I'm burning 4.16 pounds per hour. 4.16 x 13000 = 54166 btu per hour. Is my math right? It seems like I need to double the amount of coal to get the advertised 110000 btu.
I cannot add more coal. I have the screw turned in 14 turns and have about 1/2 ash at the end. If I turn the screw in more burning coal dumps in the ashes. I'm getting half of what the boiler is rated for. I've tried switching coal with the same result. I've cleaned the boilers tubes, the big V and all the black dust under the grate. I poked all the helped with a drill bit to make sure all the holes were clear. I'm clueless on how to burn more coal. Please any help would be awesome. I might have to put my oil burner in soon.
Buckslayer
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Leisure Line
Stove/Furnace Model: 110k / lilheater

Re: Boiler won't make temperature!

PostBy: Rick 386 On: Sun Jan 27, 2013 12:03 pm

We'll need a few more details.

Do you have an in vs. out temperature reading ?

Do you have a manometer ?? Do you have a barometric dampner installed and is it set properly ??

Welcome to the forum. We will get this set up and working.




Rick
Rick 386
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: AA 260 heating both sides of twin farmhouse
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: LL Hyfire II w/ coaltrol in garage
Coal Size/Type: Pea in AA 260, Rice in LL Hyfire II
Other Heating: Gas fired infared at work

Re: Boiler won't make temperature!

PostBy: Buckslayer On: Sun Jan 27, 2013 12:11 pm

Yes, I do have a barometer and manometer the draft is a steady .05.
I don't know the in and out temperature, just that the water temperature will not go above 150 when there the thermostat asks for heat.
Buckslayer
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Leisure Line
Stove/Furnace Model: 110k / lilheater

Visit Leisure Line Stove

Re: Boiler won't make temperature!

PostBy: Poconoeagle On: Sun Jan 27, 2013 12:13 pm

Water flowing to fast?
Choke the flow a wee bit to allow more time for heat transfer?
Poconoeagle
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Buckwalter & Co. , EFM520
Stove/Furnace Model: No. 28 Glenwood 1880, Alaska

Re: Boiler won't make temperature!

PostBy: WNY On: Sun Jan 27, 2013 12:21 pm

Yes, typically 170-180 is correct.

Whats' your aquastat on the boiler set for? maybe it's a little out of adjustment?

Maybe reduce your draft to .04 or . 03, you may be loosing heat up the chimney.

Yes, see if you can slow the flow down a bit, so the boiler has time to recover or turn a couple zones down a bit in temp and see if it can keep up or at least start to raise in temperature. You may have to tweek it a bit to get it running in its sweet spot.

At a full burn, typically 1/2" of ash at the end of the grate is normal.
Make sure you ONLY Adjust feed 1/2 turn at a time and check after a couple hours, Coal and stoves/boilers take time to readjust.

A little more info or a pic of your setup would be helpful.


.
WNY
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: Keystoker 90K, Leisure Line Hyfire I
Coal Size/Type: Rice
Stove/Furnace Make: Keystoker, LL & CoalTrol
Stove/Furnace Model: 90K, Hyfire I, VF3000 Soon

Re: Boiler won't make temperature!

PostBy: franco b On: Sun Jan 27, 2013 12:24 pm

Always good to have more information.

What is the stack temperature measured with a magnetic thermometer about a foot from the breech of the boiler. It is possible your draft is too high and wasting heat. Excessive combustion air will also drive up stack temperature. The boiler needs time to absorb the heat from flue gas and if the velocity is too high it can't do it.

100 pounds a day to heat 1800 ft. seems excessive. Is that 1800 ft. plus the basement? If the basement is not included there will be the heat loss from the boiler and distribution pipes.

What kind of house and how tight and how well insulated.

Unless an independent agency certifys output, makers are free to claim whatever they want as to output, and they do. In addition your figures make no allowance for efficiency which is not 100 percent. So it is even worse.
franco b
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: V ermont Castings 2310, Franco Belge 262
Baseburners & Antiques: Glenwood Modern Oak 114
Coal Size/Type: nut and pea

Re: Boiler won't make temperature!

PostBy: stoker_RI On: Sun Jan 27, 2013 12:53 pm

I have the same boiler...with the same issues ....and get the exact same results you are getting, and there are others also with similar issues...I have had the boiler since Spring of 2011...but last year wasn't a REAL New England Winter...so this year is the real test.
I can give you a couple of suggestions based on my experience....Turn the screw in a bit more and forget about seeing ash on the end on the end of the grate...let the fire go right up to the end of the carpet...if you waste a little coal dropping off, so be it..you may have to live with that for the time being through this cold snap, but you will get a bit more btu' s.

Do you know what your return water temp is? If the water is going out at 150, most would agree that optimally you don' t want to see the return water temp more than 20-30 degrees lower...having said that, if you REDUCE the flow to the zones, that will result in even Lower return water temps, and therefore slamming the operating temp of the boiler even more!

What is your low and high set at on the aquastat on the boiler? in your situation, I would suggest 170 low and 190 high

hope that helps!

feel free to PM if you like!
stoker_RI
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Leisure Line
Stove/Furnace Model: WL 110 Boiler

Re: Boiler won't make temperature!

PostBy: Lightning On: Sun Jan 27, 2013 1:00 pm

I agree with franco b, seems you are loosing heat.. a 100 pounds is indeed excessive for your size house.. See if you can cut your draft pressure down to a .02 - .03 as suggested above and make sure any doors on the boiler are sealing good. I suspect too much heat loss out the chimney. After that, I would look for heat loss between the boiler and the house. Could your piping be loosing heat somewhere?
Lightning
 
Hand Fed Coal Furnace: Clayton 1537G
Coal Size/Type: Nut Size / White Ash

Re: Boiler won't make temperature!

PostBy: Buckslayer On: Sun Jan 27, 2013 1:03 pm

Poconoeagle wrote:Water flowing to fast?
Choke the flow a wee bit to allow more time for heat transfer?


This is from my boiler guy.
"This is a one zone application split into 60 foot loops being circulated from a taco 007 circ. As btu transfer and flow rate are tied together (1 gpm =10,000 btu transfer) choking down the flow will allow the boiler to increase temperature, however heat transfer to the house will suffer. The distribution piping was sufficient when tied to a oil boiler of less btu (85000) "
Buckslayer
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Leisure Line
Stove/Furnace Model: 110k / lilheater

Re: Boiler won't make temperature!

PostBy: tsb On: Sun Jan 27, 2013 1:06 pm

I built a home made boiler using a Leisure Line grate just
slightly smaller than the one in your unit. I never expected it
to provide all the heat and DHW for the house, but it does quite well
during moderate temperatures.

I don't know where you are located, but this last week it has
been really cold in SEPA and my boiler has been working it's
little balls off. I have a hand fed Saey burning to help out until
the weather breaks.

I just finished last years load of Blaschak rice and have started a new
load of DiRenzo. It has made a big difference in the output of the boiler.
It still can't quite keep up, but it is doing much better than with the Blaschak.

If your house is 1800 sq ft and your basement is the same, that's a lot of space
for 100,000 btu in this kind of weather. See how you next week when the
weather breaks a little.

Did your Lilheater heat the whole house last year ?
Last edited by tsb on Sun Jan 27, 2013 10:30 pm, edited 2 times in total.
tsb
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Binford 2000
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: LL Pioneer top vent
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Saey Hanover II

Re: Boiler won't make temperature!

PostBy: Buckslayer On: Sun Jan 27, 2013 1:08 pm

WNY wrote:Yes, typically 170-180 is correct.

Whats' your aquastat on the boiler set for? maybe it's a little out of adjustment?

Maybe reduce your draft to .04 or . 03, you may be loosing heat up the chimney.

Yes, see if you can slow the flow down a bit, so the boiler has time to recover or turn a couple zones down a bit in temp and see if it can keep up or at least start to raise in temperature. You may have to tweek it a bit to get it running in its sweet spot.

At a full burn, typically 1/2" of ash at the end of the grate is normal.
Make sure you ONLY Adjust feed 1/2 turn at a time and check after a couple hours, Coal and stoves/boilers take time to readjust.

A little more info or a pic of your setup would be helpful..


Aquastat settings are:
Hi 180
Lo 160
Diff 10

Oil man said baro is wide open when its firing, can't lower draft much more. It's .14 at the breach.
As well the flue pipe isn't that hot. I'm not sure to be exact but I can hold my hand to it.
Buckslayer
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Leisure Line
Stove/Furnace Model: 110k / lilheater

Re: Boiler won't make temperature!

PostBy: Buckslayer On: Sun Jan 27, 2013 1:09 pm

franco b wrote:Always good to have more information.

What is the stack temperature measured with a magnetic thermometer about a foot from the breech of the boiler. It is possible your draft is too high and wasting heat. Excessive combustion air will also drive up stack temperature. The boiler needs time to absorb the heat from flue gas and if the velocity is too high it can't do it.

100 pounds a day to heat 1800 ft. seems excessive. Is that 1800 ft. plus the basement? If the basement is not included there will be the heat loss from the boiler and distribution pipes.

What kind of house and how tight and how well insulated.

Unless an independent agency certifys output, makers are free to claim whatever they want as to output, and they do. In addition your figures make no allowance for efficiency which is not 100 percent. So it is even worse.


Ranch house on slab built in 1997, I assume its insulated well.
Buckslayer
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Leisure Line
Stove/Furnace Model: 110k / lilheater

Re: Boiler won't make temperature!

PostBy: Buckslayer On: Sun Jan 27, 2013 1:10 pm

stoker_RI wrote:I have the same boiler...with the same issues ....and get the exact same results you are getting, and there are others also with similar issues...I have had the boiler since Spring of 2011...but last year wasn't a REAL New England Winter...so this year is the real test.
I can give you a couple of suggestions based on my experience....Turn the screw in a bit more and forget about seeing ash on the end on the end of the grate...let the fire go right up to the end of the carpet...if you waste a little coal dropping off, so be it..you may have to live with that for the time being through this cold snap, but you will get a bit more btu' s.

Do you know what your return water temp is? If the water is going out at 150, most would agree that optimally you don' t want to see the return water temp more than 20-30 degrees lower...having said that, if you REDUCE the flow to the zones, that will result in even Lower return water temps, and therefore slamming the operating temp of the boiler even more!

What is your low and high set at on the aquastat on the boiler? in your situation, I would suggest 170 low and 190 high

hope that helps!

"Supply 152 return 129"

feel free to PM if you like!
Buckslayer
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Leisure Line
Stove/Furnace Model: 110k / lilheater

Re: Boiler won't make temperature!

PostBy: Buckslayer On: Sun Jan 27, 2013 1:13 pm

I'm located in central NY.
My 80,000 btu oil boiler never had a problem. My lilheater works nicely, kept most of the house toasty.
Buckslayer
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Leisure Line
Stove/Furnace Model: 110k / lilheater

Re: Boiler won't make temperature!

PostBy: Poconoeagle On: Sun Jan 27, 2013 1:16 pm

Did the oil unit use the same circulator pump and baseboard zones?
Why the secondary air open?
Poconoeagle
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Buckwalter & Co. , EFM520
Stove/Furnace Model: No. 28 Glenwood 1880, Alaska

Visit Leisure Line Stove