Keystoker A80 vs LL Hyfire I

Keystoker A80 vs LL Hyfire I

PostBy: Cohiba8250 On: Tue Dec 18, 2007 5:34 pm

I am building a house in NE Pennsylvania this summer and have decided to use coal as my primary and only heat source. The house is a 1450 sq ft ranch with vaulted ceilings, a very open floor plan and an abundance of glass on the southern exposure. I have narrowed down my stoker choices to either the Keystoker A80 or the LL Hyfire I with the hood. I also plan on a small coal stove in the great room for very cold days or just days when the temps are in the 40-50 range to take the chill off. Would love to hear peoples opinions as to the pros and cons of either the keystoker or LL systems. Thanks in advance for your help.
Cohiba8250
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Installing AHS S130 in Summer

Re: Keystoker A80 vs LL Hyfire I

PostBy: av8r On: Tue Dec 18, 2007 5:46 pm

I'll say this:

Leisure Line's owner is a member of this board and has a stellar reputation for customer service. I have personally experienced his dedication to making the customer happy. I had planned to buy an Alaska after having talked to friends that have had them for years. Jerry @ Leisure Line spent 30 minutes with me on the phone and when I hung up, I bought a LL stove. I don't think you can buy a "bad" one so I went with the best potential service after the sale.
av8r
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Furnace: Leisure Line Hearth with twin turbos (sounds like it)
Stove/Furnace Make: Leisure Line
Stove/Furnace Model: Hearth model with twin turbos

Re: Keystoker A80 vs LL Hyfire I

PostBy: Cohiba8250 On: Tue Dec 18, 2007 6:06 pm

av8r do you have the hot air jacket installed on your LL? I guess my main concern is BTU loss with the hot air jacket as compaired to the keystoker which is designed to be a furnace.
Cohiba8250
 
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Re: Keystoker A80 vs LL Hyfire I

PostBy: WNY On: Tue Dec 18, 2007 8:25 pm

With the Furnance type stoves, they push the air from the bottom over the stove and up the duct work, and have a fire box that the air blows around to capture the heat, so you have less radiant heat around the stove.

The LL is a single wall stove, but with the heat jacket, you would have to put a Inline Duct Fan to PULL the air up and over the stove and remove the built in fans.

However, Depending on the location of your LL stove, you could put a hole in the top cover of the stove and duct it somewhere, but you would have alot of radiant heat around the stove, (as in my case, but it helps heat the basement too!) I cut a 8" hole in mine and ducted it upstairs using the built in blowers and works actually quite nicely with the CoalTrol (Added), you can adjust the air flow and heat from upstairs.

My hyfire I:
http://nepacrossroads.com/download/file ... &mode=view

A couple different ways of doing it depending on what you want to accomplish.
WNY
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: Keystoker 90K, Leisure Line Hyfire I
Coal Size/Type: Rice
Stove/Furnace Make: Keystoker, LL & CoalTrol
Stove/Furnace Model: 90K, Hyfire I, VF3000 Soon

Re: Keystoker A80 vs LL Hyfire I

PostBy: av8r On: Tue Dec 18, 2007 8:28 pm

Cohiba8250 wrote:av8r do you have the hot air jacket installed on your LL? I guess my main concern is BTU loss with the hot air jacket as compaired to the keystoker which is designed to be a furnace.

I can't help you with the specific models. I bought a hearth model that sits in my living room. You may benefit from a call to Jerry at LL to ask him. He seemed unbiased to me and like the kind of a guy that would tell you if his stove wasn't the best choice.
av8r
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Furnace: Leisure Line Hearth with twin turbos (sounds like it)
Stove/Furnace Make: Leisure Line
Stove/Furnace Model: Hearth model with twin turbos

Re: Keystoker A80 vs LL Hyfire I

PostBy: Cohiba8250 On: Tue Dec 18, 2007 8:53 pm

WNY thanks I had actually just got done looking at your setup when I saw your response. It seemed an advantage for the LL to me that it would heat my basement with no duct work. So does it heat your entire house by itself? Yes I know I need to add an inline fan. Lucky for me both my Father in Law and Brother in law do HVAC and plumbing. LOL I am taking a trip by Drum, PA Saturday and plan on stopping at the stove store there to pick some knowledge up. Thanks for sharing how your system works.
Cohiba8250
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Installing AHS S130 in Summer

Re: Keystoker A80 vs LL Hyfire I

PostBy: WNY On: Tue Dec 18, 2007 9:41 pm

Yes it keeps the basement a good 70-72 degrees, it's an old fieldstone with some air leaks, but I have tried to seal out as much cool air as possible, plus there is a ton insulation on the basement ceiling (1st floor), so I am not getting any radiant heat thru the floors (yet!). I may even go to 10 or 12" pipe to move more heat upstairs. SO far, I am very happy with it.

I don't run it full throttle, which I could if I wanted to. I keep it around 68-70 in the first floor but, 2nd floor is a bit cooler 64-65. We have rather large old Victorian and it does really well, if I have the heat jacket, I could probably get more heat to the first in turn keeping the 2nd floor warmer. There is one 12"x12" grate directly above the living room to let some warm air upstairs.

The 2nd floor gets a bit cooler, since we keep the doors closed (keep the cats out) except at night, if I could leave everything open, it would do great and the air circulation up the front stairs and down the back would moderate it nicely.

If you have good insulated house, windows, etc....It would probably do quite well, you could run one or both burners depending on the weather. As long as you have good air circulation through the house, you shouldn't have any problems heating it.

One nice thing with the CoalTrol Control System on the HyFire, it varies the fan speed and heat very nicely and keeps it a very constant temperature. I set it on 68 and it will hold it on 68.
WNY
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: Keystoker 90K, Leisure Line Hyfire I
Coal Size/Type: Rice
Stove/Furnace Make: Keystoker, LL & CoalTrol
Stove/Furnace Model: 90K, Hyfire I, VF3000 Soon

Re: Keystoker A80 vs LL Hyfire I

PostBy: Cohiba8250 On: Tue Dec 18, 2007 9:46 pm

Thanks for the info!! I will be running duct work for registers in every room so sounds good. Also sounds like I should not insullate the ceiling of the basement. Looking forward to seeing the stove in person this weekend.
Cohiba8250
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Installing AHS S130 in Summer

Re: Keystoker A80 vs LL Hyfire I

PostBy: WNY On: Tue Dec 18, 2007 9:56 pm

If you basement is sealed good, you might just insulate the walls good, then any extra heat can radiant up thru the floor.
When we got the house last Dec., the basement was around 48 Degrees!! there was so much cold air coming thru the stones, sill plate, etc....I think I used 10 cans of great stuff and sealed anything and everything! It got up to 60 after a while, then after installing the stove, it is now 70+ all the time! Sometimes a bit too warm, but my workbench is only 5 feet from stove. Doesn't get much better than that! :)

Good luck.

I solved my upstairs heat by installing my original keystoker 90K in the attached garage and ducting it upstairs....most of the time it just idles along keeping it warm.
WNY
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: Keystoker 90K, Leisure Line Hyfire I
Coal Size/Type: Rice
Stove/Furnace Make: Keystoker, LL & CoalTrol
Stove/Furnace Model: 90K, Hyfire I, VF3000 Soon

Re: Keystoker A80 vs LL Hyfire I

PostBy: coaledsweat On: Wed Dec 19, 2007 8:47 am

Cohiba8250 wrote:I am building a house in NE Pennsylvania this summer and have decided to use coal as my primary and only heat source.


Get a boiler and heat the floors.
coaledsweat
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Axeman Anderson 260M
Coal Size/Type: Pea

Re: Keystoker A80 vs LL Hyfire I

PostBy: spc On: Wed Dec 19, 2007 9:00 am

If I were building a new home & were using coal as my primary heat source I would get an auger feed system & an have an efficient way of dealing with ashes. I would also make coal delivery & storage as easy as possible.
spc
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Leisure Line
Stove/Furnace Model: Pioneer

Re: Keystoker A80 vs LL Hyfire I

PostBy: Yanche On: Wed Dec 19, 2007 9:28 am

Since you are building a new home you have a clean start. Use it to your advantage and don't put the cart before the horse. I think selecting a stove now is a bit early. You don't say if the house will have central A/C. Will it? Do you want to heat your domestic hot water with coal? Do you need to get a local occupancy permit before you move in? In many populated areas you do and solid fuel heating appliances can not be the primary heat. Do you need a heat loss calculation, usually Manual J, to get a building permit? Having said all the cautions, a coal fired stoker boiler that also provides domestic hot water is the best. If it were me I would design in two masonry chimneys, one for the central heat boiler and one for a hand fired coal stove that needs no electricity. Radiant floor heat is the best. Vaulted ceiling rooms are the most difficult to heat evenly because all the heat rises. Hydro-air systems, i.e. water to air heat exchangers can be a good solution when you also want central A/C. Above all insulate well and don't oversize your units. The coldest day of the year comes only once. Most of the time you don't have a worst case condition. Coal heat does not throttle down easily.

Plan on coal storage and ash removal methods. You want to buy in bulk and minimize any moving of coal. Put the coal delivery bin where the stoker auger can get to it. Good luck.
Last edited by Yanche on Wed Dec 19, 2007 10:44 am, edited 1 time in total.
Yanche
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Alternate Heating Systems S-130
Coal Size/Type: Anthracite Pea

Re: Keystoker A80 vs LL Hyfire I

PostBy: WNY On: Wed Dec 19, 2007 9:31 am

Another thing is how far away is the stove going to be located to the rooms? Can you put in the middle and pipe from it to the both sides, if at one end and try to heat the other end, you may not get enough hot air all the way down.

When Building, remember coal storage area /access (either your access or if you get in bulk, truck/chute access) and your chimney location you should consider that will determine your stove location.

You might, like spc specified is a boiler unit, and then you can zone off areas or reduce the heat required to certains rooms, hook up a hot water coil for hot water, etc...do the radiant floor heat too. Alot of possilibilities.
WNY
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: Keystoker 90K, Leisure Line Hyfire I
Coal Size/Type: Rice
Stove/Furnace Make: Keystoker, LL & CoalTrol
Stove/Furnace Model: 90K, Hyfire I, VF3000 Soon

Re: Keystoker A80 vs LL Hyfire I

PostBy: LsFarm On: Wed Dec 19, 2007 10:37 am

As coaledsweat said, since you are building new, don't miss the chance to put in hot water heated floors, especially in the Kitchen and bathrooms. You will absolutely love it. It is the most effecient way to heat a space and by far the most comfortable for humans.

Using a coal fired boiler will heat the house and domestic hot water, and make your heat bills a fraction of what oil, or gas would be.


Greg L

.
LsFarm
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Axeman Anderson 260
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: Self-built 'Big Bertha' SS Boiler
Baseburners & Antiques: Keystone 11, Art Garland

Re: Keystoker A80 vs LL Hyfire I

PostBy: Cohiba8250 On: Wed Dec 19, 2007 11:11 am

You guys do love your boilers huh. LOL Actually my Father in Law is pushing the boiler issue also. I hadn't thought about heated floors but am sure my wife would love them. I will not be putting in central A/C but may want to add it later. It rarely gets hot enough on top of the mountain to need A/C and there is always a breeze blowing. As far as permits I am fine you have to drive 20 mins past the edge of the earth to get there. Most people are heating with wood since its cheap I just didn't want to mess with it. About how much does a stoker boiler run in the 120,000 BTU area? Yanche why 2 chimneys? Wouldn't 1 8 inch clay flue meet the needs? Or is there an advantage to have 2 stacks? Again guys thanks for your input it is very helpful.
Cohiba8250
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Installing AHS S130 in Summer

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