Will I be able to burn the Surdiac 715 515?

Re: Will I be able to burn the Surdiac 715 515?

PostBy: joeq On: Thu Feb 14, 2013 12:46 am

Not sure of the size comparison of the 2 model hoppers, (513-715), but mine says to use pea coal exclusively, and trust me when I tell you, don't deviate. When nut is introduced to my hopper, it immediately instructs me to administer prune juice. Have had my share of a "clogged" hopper on more than 1 occasion, even when just mixed with pea, never mind 100% nut.
joeq
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Surdiac Gotha 513
Stove/Furnace Make: Oil fired
Stove/Furnace Model: Thermopride

Re: Will I be able to burn the Surdiac 715 515?

PostBy: 2DeXtreMe On: Thu Feb 14, 2013 1:22 am

joeq wrote:Not sure of the size comparison of the 2 model hoppers, (513-715), but mine says to use pea coal exclusively, and trust me when I tell you, don't deviate. When nut is introduced to my hopper, it immediately instructs me to administer prune juice. Have had my share of a "clogged" hopper on more than 1 occasion, even when just mixed with pea, never mind 100% nut.


Yes, you're right. These European stoves call for burning pea coal. I've had this nut coal for three years pleading for me to burn it, so I will throw it the stove and keep a close eye on it, just for a trial run. My Channing takes rice coal. So I can't use it in there. Once I get it going good, I will close the damper completely to 0 as there are 3 vent holes on the ash door.
2DeXtreMe
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: Alaska channing 3
Hand Fed Coal Stove: surdiac 715
Stove/Furnace Make: Alaska & Surdiac
Stove/Furnace Model: Channing III & 715

Re: Will I be able to burn the Surdiac 715 515?

PostBy: AdamD On: Thu Feb 14, 2013 10:38 pm

Hi,

I'm not sure if you have the 513 or the 715..... But I think it's the 715. I have the same stove. A couple of items for you:

The 715 has a SINGLE piece hopper. Many of the links to the blowup diagrams have a 2 piece.....that's for the 513.

On top of the hopper are two feed plates and just under the cover door and above the hopper is another cover plate with a reducer. The hopper needs to be removed when burning wood.

In short, you can't burn coal during the day, then wood at night. It's one or the other. The reason is because the hopper will trap smoke from the wood fire, and you will see it leaking out the top regardless of the gasketing. The steel plates work as baffling to push the smoke into the side outlets and out to the rear plenum and out the chimney. I use wood and charcoal only in the ash pans and in the basket in order to start the stove. Then I slowly add the coal through front door until it gets going......then I feed coal in rough the hopper. This stove holds 80 lbs at a time.

Fully open you are looking at 70k BTU. Run only Pea coal as nut is larger and the voids between the coal chunks will cause faster and hotter firing, thus making it more difficult to control, and constantly in need of riddling.

I run my stove at between 400-600 degrees on the door, and my stack temp just above the top of the stove is 200 degrees. I have mine in a basement surrounded by concrete. You have to be careful of over firing in a living room setting because flashover can occur above 700 degrees. Keep combustibles away.

Keep in mind too, that sustained temps above 600 degrees are probably too hot, but that cast iron, which these stoves are, is capable of withstanding 1800 degrees without issue. It's chosen because cast iron transmits heat the best of all available metals, and is durable.

Let me know if you have any other questions and post some pics, or email me directly at construction.wiz@gmail.com

I heat a 2400 sft colonial with this stove and 3.6 Tons of coal per year. $1200 in coal versus $3000 in oil.
AdamD
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Surdiac
Stove/Furnace Model: 715

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Re: Will I be able to burn the Surdiac 715 515?

PostBy: AdamD On: Thu Feb 14, 2013 10:56 pm

Here's some pics.....
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AdamD
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Surdiac
Stove/Furnace Model: 715

Re: Will I be able to burn the Surdiac 715 515?

PostBy: joeq On: Thu Feb 14, 2013 11:47 pm

Nice pix Adam. I notice you don't have any MPD "or" baro. So i imagine you're saying it's not necessary in your installation? How long has you've been running your stove? I've only run mine for less than 2 seasons, and already see wear and distortion in my hopper. I've been told to always keep it full, but at nite during bedtime, it runs low and is almost empty less than 7 hrs later, and the hopper is getting hot. Tough to stay ahead of it. Mine is the 513, and doesn't have the capacity of the 715.
P.S. Welcome to the forums.
joeq
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Surdiac Gotha 513
Stove/Furnace Make: Oil fired
Stove/Furnace Model: Thermopride

Re: Will I be able to burn the Surdiac 715 515?

PostBy: 2DeXtreMe On: Fri Feb 15, 2013 4:19 pm

AdamD wrote:Hi,

I'm not sure if you have the 513 or the 715..... But I think it's the 715. I have the same stove. A couple of items for you:

The 715 has a SINGLE piece hopper. Many of the links to the blowup diagrams have a 2 piece.....that's for the 513.

On top of the hopper are two feed plates and just under the cover door and above the hopper is another cover plate with a reducer. The hopper needs to be removed when burning wood.

In short, you can't burn coal during the day, then wood at night. It's one or the other. The reason is because the hopper will trap smoke from the wood fire, and you will see it leaking out the top regardless of the gasketing. The steel plates work as baffling to push the smoke into the side outlets and out to the rear plenum and out the chimney. I use wood and charcoal only in the ash pans and in the basket in order to start the stove. Then I slowly add the coal through front door until it gets going......then I feed coal in rough the hopper. This stove holds 80 lbs at a time.

Fully open you are looking at 70k BTU. Run only Pea coal as nut is larger and the voids between the coal chunks will cause faster and hotter firing, thus making it more difficult to control, and constantly in need of riddling.

I run my stove at between 400-600 degrees on the door, and my stack temp just above the top of the stove is 200 degrees. I have mine in a basement surrounded by concrete. You have to be careful of over firing in a living room setting because flashover can occur above 700 degrees. Keep combustibles away.

Keep in mind too, that sustained temps above 600 degrees are probably too hot, but that cast iron, which these stoves are, is capable of withstanding 1800 degrees without issue. It's chosen because cast iron transmits heat the best of all available metals, and is durable.

Let me know if you have any other questions and post some pics, or email me directly at construction.wiz@gmail.com

I heat a 2400 sft colonial with this stove and 3.6 Tons of coal per year. $1200 in coal versus $3000 in oil.



Magnificent! Thank You so much for posting your comments and pictures. I greatly appreciate it! Yes, we do indeed have the same 715. Mine is missing the hopper and steel/guide plates. It seems that the guide/steel plates will not mount inside the stove without the usage of the hopper that it sits on. Am I wrong? I know that the 715 calls for the removal of the hopper when burning wood, but where or what will the guide plates sit on when the hopper is removed? As mentioned on the top loading door "guide plates must be used when burning wood".

The reason for me wanting to burn the two fuels during the day is because of the missing hopper. I just need to find a alternative replacement for the guide plates. I question that I really need it being that I have the other the plate you mentioned with the reducer that sits on the four brackets below the top door. I see that you use a six inch pipe mounted on the outer part of your outlet. I went this route VS. using a 5 to 6 reducer. I've got stove gasket rope wedge in between the outer outlet and 6" pipe for a tight fit. I am almost ready to burn. I just need to crimp a couple end of stove pipe. Trying to see if there is way to do that without using a crimping tool, as I do not have one.

Seems like the beast is working quite well for you! Maintaining room temperature for a 2,400 sqft home while burning in a uninsulated basement is just wonderful to see!
2DeXtreMe
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: Alaska channing 3
Hand Fed Coal Stove: surdiac 715
Stove/Furnace Make: Alaska & Surdiac
Stove/Furnace Model: Channing III & 715

Re: Will I be able to burn the Surdiac 715 515?

PostBy: 2DeXtreMe On: Fri Feb 15, 2013 4:36 pm

I almost forgot. Welcome to the forum. What state do you live in?
2DeXtreMe
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: Alaska channing 3
Hand Fed Coal Stove: surdiac 715
Stove/Furnace Make: Alaska & Surdiac
Stove/Furnace Model: Channing III & 715

Re: Will I be able to burn the Surdiac 715 515?

PostBy: joeq On: Fri Feb 15, 2013 5:47 pm

2DX, I took a bunch of pictures for you yesterday, cause of the warm weather, I let the stove go out. Also want to hook-up my manometer, and measure the draft. While i was cleaning it out, i snapped about 8-10 pix,(of the inside of the pit, and some of the components) and now I see Adam has got you covered by having the exact same stove as you, with more "appropriate" pix. Don't know if there're any of mine that will benefit you. If so, let me know, and I'll post 'em.
joeq
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Surdiac Gotha 513
Stove/Furnace Make: Oil fired
Stove/Furnace Model: Thermopride

Re: Will I be able to burn the Surdiac 715 515?

PostBy: AdamD On: Fri Feb 15, 2013 6:43 pm

Thank you all for the welcome. I live in CT also.

After looking at the blowup diagrams on Woodmans and looking at my stove, and from what I know from my brother-in-law whom I got this stove from....... Who has 25+ years burning coal stoves......

My hopper arrangement is different. I don't have the two piece arrangement as shown on the blowup. I'm actually quite certain that can't mount my plates with the hopper out as there is no way to mount them. Unfortunately I don't have the manual for this stove........

However, I do know this stove is branded as a Surdiac......... BUT......

Only after Jotul bought the name. So now I'm thinking there were some design changes. I think Woodmans blowup is to a pre-Jotul 715. Mine is a post.

As for burning wood, the hopper has to be out and the plates in, in order for the smoke to be correctly pushed into the side openings and out the plenum. They essentially work as baffles to keep it from rising out the top fill. I can see this based on the blowup too.

Not sure there is any way to tell a pre versus a post, but we''ll take it from there.

In my opinion, I would not fire coal without the hopper for the same reason. It alone, and more so when filled with coal (think charcoal filter) help direct noxious flow out not up.

Thoughts?
AdamD
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Surdiac
Stove/Furnace Model: 715

Re: Will I be able to burn the Surdiac 715 515?

PostBy: AdamD On: Fri Feb 15, 2013 6:47 pm

Also,

In. Add anyone is wondering I have full 6" all the way out of the stove. It's standard black Home Depot pipe and elbows. I seal it with 3M fire block that you can find in caulk tubes. It's the same stuff the reseal boilers with when servicing them.

Also, I have uploaded an additional pic.... I do have a MPD..... It's midway up my riser.
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AdamD
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Surdiac
Stove/Furnace Model: 715

Re: Will I be able to burn the Surdiac 715 515?

PostBy: 2DeXtreMe On: Fri Feb 15, 2013 7:50 pm

JoeQ,

Yes, That would be great if you can post some pictures of your parts for the 513. I am curious to see how each part does it's duties. The reason I wanted to see a picture of a surdiac hopper is because I couldn't figure out where or how the hopper could be set up in my stove.

I got your PM. Whenever you get a chance, shut down your stove again and separate the 6" pipe from your 5" to 6" reducer pipe. Take a flashlight and shine it towards the inside of the reducer while still being mounted on your exhaust outlet, I am almost certain that you will see the flash light shine on the outer part of your reducer (5" end).

When I was getting the stove ready, I put the reducer into the outlet as far back as I could, and it did feel like a snug fit. Just to be sure, I did the flash light test, and wolla.... light found it's way around the exterior of the reducer. Too much light as a matter of fact.

I've read some of your other post. Although you have a smaller firebox, you're still suppose to be getting on average 10-12 hours burn time, before poking. I still think that there is still more potential that you can get from your stove.
2DeXtreMe
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: Alaska channing 3
Hand Fed Coal Stove: surdiac 715
Stove/Furnace Make: Alaska & Surdiac
Stove/Furnace Model: Channing III & 715

Re: Will I be able to burn the Surdiac 715 515?

PostBy: 2DeXtreMe On: Fri Feb 15, 2013 8:03 pm

As for burning wood, the hopper has to be out and the plates in, in order for the smoke to be correctly pushed into the side openings and out the plenum. They essentially work as baffles to keep it from rising out the top fill. I can see this based on the blowup too.


Adam,

This is what's so confusing to me. How can one burn wood with the guide plates installed, when the guide plates needs the hopper in the stove to mount on top?

I think burning coal without the hopper doesn't pose CO risk. It just mean more tending to the stove for new loads of coal.

My 715 tag on the back also states it is under the Jotul Brand. It was built in 1985. Interesting that you mentioned a possible different version for the Surdiac (Pre/Post Jotul acquisition). Never thought about that one.

Another Surdiac owner from CT. There are a lot of us! :D
2DeXtreMe
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: Alaska channing 3
Hand Fed Coal Stove: surdiac 715
Stove/Furnace Make: Alaska & Surdiac
Stove/Furnace Model: Channing III & 715

Re: Will I be able to burn the Surdiac 715 515?

PostBy: AdamD On: Mon Feb 18, 2013 10:35 am

Yea I'm not sure. I left for vacation yesterday, to return this Saturday and I let the stove go out..... Therefore when I get home, it will be a good time for pictures.

As for the hopper, I looked when it was down on coal again, and my guide plates are notched and do require the top of the hopper to mount.... HOWEVER...... If you look at Woodman's blowup of the stove for parts..... It's totally different. I think the 1 piece hopper with integral plates was a design change to save money and process time when Jotul took over. Less parts;simpler design. The stamped top plate may have just been left.

I will remove my riser when I get home and see if there is a reduced in there..... I'm not sure there is. I believe it's just a 6" flange that screws to the plenum with an o.d. equivalent to the pipe I.d.

As for the burn time, I know I can get 10-12, however cold nights really reduce that timeline. Combined with a great drafting g chimney, it's been a struggle this year to slow it down, I think I have to put a better MPD in. Right now it's fully open and the stove damper is set to 0 and my max burn temp is 550-600. I can't get it below that, so I think the MPD needs adjusted..... But it's just a hand model..... I'd like to put one in with a gauge that shows how open or closed it is.

I suppose you could burn coal without the hopper.... You'd just have to batch feed it every time you riddled the ash down. And make sure gasses arent escaping out the top cover. My firebox is actually larger on the 715 than the 515 series. Which brings me to the thought that perhaps the Woodmans blowup is actually a 515. Does the 515 have a multi piece hopper?

As for mounting the hopper in the 715...... Of course with pics to follow...... There are ears on the bottom of my hopper that rest in two small tabs that are cast onto the sides of the stove just above and to either side of the basket. You should be able to see these even without a hopper. They are aligned with the lateral center axis stove from above looking down, and they are about 3 inches up from either side of the basket. They are about 5/8" x 5/8" and are cupped to receive the ears which look like "a stub of rebar welded to the side" if you will...... Even though the ears are cast as part of the hopper. The guide plates are what stabilize the top of the hopper from rocking front to back.
AdamD
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Surdiac
Stove/Furnace Model: 715

Re: Will I be able to burn the Surdiac 715 515?

PostBy: joeq On: Mon Feb 18, 2013 6:05 pm

OK XT, see if these pix will help you at all.
Image
Image
Image
These were some I took a few days ago, during a cleaning. I'm sure there are technical terms for each piece, (that I don't know), but the top one is of the "aprons"(?) removed to facilitate getting all the dust out of the airways.and let me tell you, they only install one way, and one way only. (Very tight). The bottom pic shows the scraping tool going on a diagonal across the grates, thru the 3 port holes in the frt. check out the hopper. see the distortion on the bottom leading edge? It wasn't that bad at the beginning of the season. If they deteriorate that quickly, I can't see it lasting more than a few seasons. And for $400 replacement charge, I'm not too impressed. and the red color is cause it's still wet from wiping off with backing soda and water.
As for the reducer, I got to tell you, the adapter that I believe I purchased from Woodmans, (5-6) "IS" a "perfect" fit. "NO GAP". You're welcome to come to my house, and see it for yourself.Really. P.S. (Bring your Pi-tape, cause my pipe won't come off with-out moving the stove...which I won't do)
Image
joeq
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Surdiac Gotha 513
Stove/Furnace Make: Oil fired
Stove/Furnace Model: Thermopride

Re: Will I be able to burn the Surdiac 715 515?

PostBy: 2DeXtreMe On: Thu Feb 21, 2013 8:00 pm

JoeQ,

Thank You for the photos. Now I understand where the hopper mounts onto the stove. Woodsmans website shows it as 2PC set with holes for bolts to mount onto the stove. It didn't match up when I was looking at my stove.

Yes, you're hopper is changing shape in the mouth area, as we speak. You must really be burning it red hot. I see it! As a matter of fact I take back what I mentioned before about the the hopper not being a 2PC set. I see it in your picture. The two bolts are near the area (EARS) where the hopper mounts onto the stove. Woodsmans doesn't sell it as a complete 1 PC they unbolt the hopper and sell it as a 2PC set. CLEVER folks. Do you see the bolt on the hopper that holds the front and back together?

The tool that you're referring to looks like a black handle of a dog leash, correct? If so, if you look at my stove's photo it is mounted on the right heat exchanger port to hold all the misc. tools. I found it like that when I picked up the stove. You are certain that it is used as a scrapper?

Carefully looking at your reducer from the side as showed on your photo, you're outlet looks different from mines. My outlet resembles a cereal bowl mounted on the back of the heat exchanger with the bottom end of the bowl touching the heat exchanger. A cereal bowl get smaller in diameter from top to bottom of the bowl. That is why the 5" to 6" reducer left big gaps.
You're outlet resembles a larger can of tomato sauce, am I wrong?

The one thing that I don't like about this stove after firing it, is the shake n' grate procedure. What is the procedure???? Thoughts?
2DeXtreMe
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: Alaska channing 3
Hand Fed Coal Stove: surdiac 715
Stove/Furnace Make: Alaska & Surdiac
Stove/Furnace Model: Channing III & 715

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