Will I be able to burn the Surdiac 715 515?

Re: Will I be able to burn the Surdiac 715 515?

PostBy: 2DeXtreMe On: Thu Feb 21, 2013 8:37 pm

Success! I have been burning for the past few days, and I have successfully been burning a mix of nut and stove coal, and wood in the stove. I would used the hot coals from wood burning to start my coal fire. Of course being that the 715 calls for PEA coal, I of course keep the stove's damper open at a minimum. The stove is more versatile when the hopper is removed. As for the guide plates that are needed when burning wood, I am burning wood in it just fine without it. I am getting on average about an 8 hour burn time when burning coal and leaving it alone. I know I can get more burn time but I can't figure out the shake n' poke procedure for this stove. I've read on this forum that some poke side to side to get the ash out. When I attempt to poke (no shake) a dying fire around the 8th hour I can't get the fire going again. I don't poke too much just a little around the remaining glowing coals, and then the glow goes out completely after 5 minutes of poking it. As far as not using the shake n' grate technique, I couldn't gain success because I am using the lager coal sizes, and the coal would get jammed (between the 2 grates) when I shake.
2DeXtreMe
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: Alaska channing 3
Hand Fed Coal Stove: surdiac 715
Stove/Furnace Make: Alaska & Surdiac
Stove/Furnace Model: Channing III & 715

Re: Will I be able to burn the Surdiac 715 515?

PostBy: joeq On: Thu Feb 21, 2013 9:12 pm

2X, if you look at my last picture on the previous page, you will see a flat black handle sticking out the side of the stove.Does the 715 have this same feature, that connects to the RHS grate? If so, I believe this is used only to slide open (separate) the 2 grates to allow an opening for cleaning to push the ashes down into the pan. If you open this with a "hot bed", as you mentioned, the coals will just fall into the pan.I don't use this for shaking, cause it doesn't " shake", only slides.
nice job getting it running. Any pics? you are right, in that my hopper is a 2 piece affair. I never really looked at it too hard. then I saw "Meyers"? wants $200 for 1 side? :shock: (Yeah, right). so you say you're burning coal without your hopper? Other members here have told me to try this, and I'm getting to this point. Your stove is a little bigger, so I wonder if this is a reason for your 8 hr burns with-out scraping. Is your stove actually making heat after that time?
you asked about a technique for scraping. If you check out my thread, "How low can you go", i just posted on this. Your slicing tool is a slight bit different than mine, cause yours is bent up on the end. Is it damaged?
P.S. I just noticed the picture of the bent scraper is Adams, not yours.
joeq
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Surdiac Gotha 513
Stove/Furnace Make: Oil fired
Stove/Furnace Model: Thermopride

Re: Will I be able to burn the Surdiac 715 515?

PostBy: joeq On: Sat Feb 23, 2013 7:08 pm

I mentioned in my other thread I purchased a video from Meyers, and it arrived today. It's over an hr long, and has some decent info. His stove that he displayed was the next size bigger than my 513, but didn't look like "our" stoves. He had it running in his residential homes fireplace, and in his stove pipe he had not only a baro, but an MPD also. Said the stoves are made to operate with a draft of .04.(Just a little FYI) :)
joeq
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Surdiac Gotha 513
Stove/Furnace Make: Oil fired
Stove/Furnace Model: Thermopride

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Re: Will I be able to burn the Surdiac 715 515?

PostBy: 2DeXtreMe On: Mon Mar 11, 2013 7:01 am

Instead of the handle that is sticking out of your stove, mine has a knob (next to the other knob/damper setting) that I push in and out to move the right side of the grate. When I referred to the dog leash handle in your picture, I went to my stove and stuck the stove's tool in the 3 rectangular vents. It seems that doing this is part of the shake n' grate procedure. Do you use that handle to clear some of the ash on the bottom top grate?
2DeXtreMe
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: Alaska channing 3
Hand Fed Coal Stove: surdiac 715
Stove/Furnace Make: Alaska & Surdiac
Stove/Furnace Model: Channing III & 715

Re: Will I be able to burn the Surdiac 715 515?

PostBy: AdamD On: Mon Mar 11, 2013 9:08 am

Hi Guys!

Finally back from vacation with some time to post. The 715 does not have a shaker grate. The small knob on the bottom right is for sliding back the grade for clean out once the bed is out only. The only way to remove ash is via the three ports in the front.

So, to answer your question.... I have the original riddle stick (thinner one) which is bent up for two reasons: first, I needed it to help remove the pans when my pan/door tool broke ( see pic.... The pan tab broke....cheap casting); second... When riddling I noticed that you can riddle the ash underneath out, and the hot ash just below the bed will actually create a crust and keep a dome-like layer that prevents the hopper from feeding. You normally would open the door and poke this to break it up..... I curved it up a bit so the tip would scour the underside and do the same thing through the slots.

As for the slots and the original stick......it's Ok. My brother in law had a friend make the wider stick I have with the turned point. This is great! It allows me to riddle more effectively to the right and left of each slot, the wider surface allows me to push the ash down that tends to stick on the front of the basket by the door easier, and I can reach in and flatten out my ash piles in the pans easier. It also allows me to hook coal from under the hopper and spread it out in the basket to form a nice even height bed.

@2de : the reason your having trouble keeping the fire lit is because of the batch firing of the coal. I find that if I let my hopper run out by accident, and there is no coal above the bed to be pre-heated and drop on top, when I shake down the ash, the coals tend to get broken up from the mass it is in, and they mix with some ash, and begin to cool......airflow also tends to get jammed by ash filling the voids, and in shaking the ash, you shake out what's left of the hot coals. This further reduces the bed and the heat in the stove, making it harder to refire. Next time, try adding fresh coal in on top .....say an inch worth for 10 mins or so......or perhaps till you see the blue flame that anthracite puts off, before you shake down the ash. This may help to keep the bed fueled and pass on the heat before you disrupt it.
AdamD
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Surdiac
Stove/Furnace Model: 715

Re: Will I be able to burn the Surdiac 715 515?

PostBy: AdamD On: Mon Mar 11, 2013 9:13 am

Here's a few pics from cleanout
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AdamD
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Surdiac
Stove/Furnace Model: 715

Re: Will I be able to burn the Surdiac 715 515?

PostBy: AdamD On: Mon Mar 11, 2013 9:24 am

Couple of notes from above:

The last photo is of the right grate with the hook rod that is attached to the knob for pulling back the grate during clean out.

The first and second are another item I wish to address:

If you'll notice the first picture shows the left paddle is deformed and parts missing.....the right is fine. These were both identical when I cleaned out in December. The second is the bottom of my hopper......material eroded and flaking apart.

Now....my stack runs at under 200F, my door temps are about 450-600F, which equates to about 300 F on top on the hopper feed door. I put mine on the front because the "hood" on he stove keeps heat from the top, and forces it out the front and out the back past the plenum.... So I get a more accurate idea of temp from the door. That being said......nothing is glowing, and nothing is overfired. Cast iron is good for between 1600 & 1800 degrees.

So why the damage? The best I can tell and have read...... Anthracite coal has high concentrations of chlorine in it, along with other things like sulfur. As a side note, I have noticed my Blashak coal is much more sulfur inclusive this year than last year. In my readings, I came across white paper that studied the effect of chlorine in coal and its corrosive effect on cast iron. This corrosion is further accelerated in the presence of high moisture. So I'm thinking that my coal, which is washed from Blashak and then bagged, and moist when I fill the stove, is producing enough humidity in the stove to accelerate the corrosion of the parts. I've noticed holes on my grates, and flaking everywhere beside the hopper and paddle.

Just keep this in mind, and inspect your parts as much as you can. Looks like I'm in for new grates and a new paddle at minimum. My hopper is still working ok.
AdamD
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Surdiac
Stove/Furnace Model: 715

Re: Will I be able to burn the Surdiac 715 515?

PostBy: joeq On: Mon Mar 11, 2013 4:58 pm

Interesting about the chlorine in the anthracite Adam. I was wondering why my hopper was also eroding since I've been burning this season.It looked new at the beginning, but if you'll notice the distortion now, this is how it looks.
Image
And altho I'm no expert, have not been overfiring it. I will admit there have been times, the level of coal in the hopper was almost gone, and the bottom was "hot", but what can we do? Never let it get less than 1/2 full? It happens almost every nite.
anyway, welcome back from your vacation. hope Paris was worth the trip. :)
joeq
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Surdiac Gotha 513
Stove/Furnace Make: Oil fired
Stove/Furnace Model: Thermopride

Re: Will I be able to burn the Surdiac 715 515?

PostBy: 2DeXtreMe On: Sat Mar 16, 2013 5:48 am

And JoeQ is worried about his hopper lasting for another couple of season??? Adam, it looks like you've got a real life monster pac -man in your house just chomping away at your hopper. :P Yes coal ash is acidic. Something tells me that during the off season you didn't vacuum the inside of the stove, thoroughly. Is it really possible for bad coal with a higher ash content to eat up your left back plate and hopper like that? I've really have got to remind myself to vacuum the stove really well when i put her down soon.

I have been burning wood exclusively since my 30+ gallons of nut & stove coal was use. My Channing has the supply of rice, so I haven't gone to BT pellets to purchase some pea for the 715. I think I will have shorter burn times if I do decide to buy pea for it next season, simply because of the no hopper situation.

Thank You Adam for explaining how to shake (drop the ash) on this stove. Before I was just using a 20" pry bar and poking and scraping whenever I didn't see an orange glow in my ash pan area. I'd loose some unburnt pieces of coal that way. JoeQ photo of the dog handle like tool on the left port got me to think differently on how to drop the ash down to the pan. I am still not a big fan of how to get ash to drop.

Adam,
"When riddling I noticed that you can riddle the ash underneath out, and the hot ash just below the bed will actually create a crust and keep a dome-like layer that prevents the hopper from feeding."

Why would you want to stop your hopper from letting more coal out?

"@2de : the reason your having trouble keeping the fire lit is because of the batch firing of the coal. I find that if I let my hopper run out by accident, and there is no coal above the bed to be pre-heated and drop on top, when I shake down the ash, the coals tend to get broken up from the mass it is in, and they mix with some ash, and begin to cool......airflow also tends to get jammed by ash filling the voids, and in shaking the ash, you shake out what's left of the hot coals. "

Yes, the stove & nut mix of coal that I was burning was crap coal. For about 25lbs of coal burning, my ash pans was nearly about 3/4 full. :cry: That is highly unusual regardless of whatever size coal one uses. So the ash was reason for the dying fire. I even threw in some fresh coal onto the dull but still orange bed of coals without poking and it still died on me.
Last edited by 2DeXtreMe on Sat Mar 16, 2013 6:05 am, edited 2 times in total.
2DeXtreMe
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: Alaska channing 3
Hand Fed Coal Stove: surdiac 715
Stove/Furnace Make: Alaska & Surdiac
Stove/Furnace Model: Channing III & 715

Re: Will I be able to burn the Surdiac 715 515?

PostBy: 2DeXtreMe On: Sat Mar 16, 2013 6:01 am

JoeQ,
" Is your stove actually making heat after that time?" Yes, I was still getting an orange bed of coal after its 8th hour. But the fire would start to die soon afterwards. All I did during that time was load some more coal. I wouldn't poke or scrap at it until the bed started to turn dull. I still couldn't save the fire that way either.
2DeXtreMe
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: Alaska channing 3
Hand Fed Coal Stove: surdiac 715
Stove/Furnace Make: Alaska & Surdiac
Stove/Furnace Model: Channing III & 715

Re: Will I be able to burn the Surdiac 715 515?

PostBy: dcrane On: Sat Mar 16, 2013 6:10 am

"Really" :lol:

anyways... Im not even going to talk about the coal stove aspect of this unit but I did want to advise about the connection of the flu pipe (you made the right choice with a 6" inch OVER the existing 5.5 inch outlet, a good way to make up the gap is using stove gasket and a large hose clamps). this makes a great seal and no cement should be needed.
dcrane
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Crane 404

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