To Baro or Not to Baro?

To Baro or Not to Baro?

PostBy: Cap On: Tue Dec 18, 2007 10:18 pm

Guys--

I have the mandatory list issued baro damper hooked up all season. Now that the temps have really dropped & the winds have picked up, ( I clocked 53mph twice the other night ) I have an issue with this piece of tin otherwise known as a barometric damper. It restricts the amount of heat my unit will put out. If I open the manual damper on the ash pan door more than 2 spins of the dial, the baro will fly like a sail and will pull away the draft I am seeking for that extra hot fire.

I have the weight set of the highest set point and my manometer shows .07" w.c.
Cap
 
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: Harman SF 250, domestic hot water loop, heat accumulator

Re: To Baro or Not to Baro?

PostBy: e.alleg On: Tue Dec 18, 2007 10:23 pm

are you saying there isn't enough air in the room to feed both the stove and the baro?
e.alleg
 
Stove/Furnace Make: EFM
Stove/Furnace Model: 520

Re: To Baro or Not to Baro?

PostBy: Wood'nCoal On: Tue Dec 18, 2007 10:34 pm

Interesting situation. Harman recommends .06 to 1.0 " WC for their hand fired stoves, I'm actually running mine at .05". The baro damper is way open most of the time, yet I can open the draft vent all the way without any problems. I'm wondering about the amount of air infiltration into your house as well. I know it's cold out, but can you open a window near the stove a little to test this?
I don't have that problem here, this place is old and drafty!
Wood'nCoal
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: 1959 EFM 350
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Harman Magnafire Mark I
Coal Size/Type: Rice and Chestnut
Other Heating: Fisher Fireplace Insert


Re: To Baro or Not to Baro?

PostBy: Cap On: Tue Dec 18, 2007 10:59 pm

Baro opens 50% wide and limits the actual draft. Draft is what delivers oxygen to the firebox. Less oxy, less heat.
Cap
 
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: Harman SF 250, domestic hot water loop, heat accumulator

Re: To Baro or Not to Baro?

PostBy: Wood'nCoal On: Tue Dec 18, 2007 11:04 pm

But if you cover the baro (with alum. foil, for example) to increase the draft to the stove and get the fire really going don't you end up sending a lot of heat up the chimney? I'm just trying to get a better understanding of the situation.
Wood'nCoal
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: 1959 EFM 350
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Harman Magnafire Mark I
Coal Size/Type: Rice and Chestnut
Other Heating: Fisher Fireplace Insert

Re: To Baro or Not to Baro?

PostBy: pbmax On: Tue Dec 18, 2007 11:13 pm

are barometric dampeners needed for stokers?
pb
pbmax
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Harman
Stove/Furnace Model: Magnum Stoker

Re: To Baro or Not to Baro?

PostBy: coalstoves On: Wed Dec 19, 2007 5:28 am

pbmax wrote:are barometric dampeners needed for stokers?
pb


There are a lot of novice coal users here, that is evident by the amount of posts relating to the inability to light and maintain a coal fire, these are things that once explained must be learned thru experience as is the FEEL for when the stove is running properly . A baro. Damper is a fail safe against TOO MUCH draft and the problems that can be associated with it, that’s it nothing more . I would say YES install one to be safe but remember some Power vent applications do not use them, some do, if there is any question what so ever in the case of a power vent contact the stove manufacturer or reputable dealer to be sure, Carbon Monoxide is deadly and odorless . Also installing a baro. Damper and not calibrating it with a draft gauge is a waste of time and money not to mention we get back into the Dangerous thing again .

As a side note about Carbon Monoxide and the amount produced I have a detector located aproxamitly 6 feet from the stove at the base of a stairway if I open the door of the stove while burning within ONE Minute the detector is wailing away and must be reset, there are no margins of error with Carbon Monoxide . :!: :arrow: :!:
Last edited by coalstoves on Thu Dec 20, 2007 2:59 am, edited 2 times in total.
coalstoves
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Harman and Liberty
Stove/Furnace Model: Magnum and Victory 700

Re: To Baro or Not to Baro?

PostBy: WNY On: Wed Dec 19, 2007 8:13 am

I have one on my LL Hyfire Stoker and it was wide open most of the night when the wind was howling here too. The Manometer draft guage was bouncing from .03 - .06 but it was doing the best to keep the draft down on the stove.
WNY
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: Keystoker 90K, Leisure Line Hyfire I
Coal Size/Type: Rice
Stove/Furnace Make: Keystoker, LL & CoalTrol
Stove/Furnace Model: 90K, Hyfire I, VF3000 Soon

Re: To Baro or Not to Baro?

PostBy: dirvine96 On: Wed Dec 19, 2007 9:12 am

As a side note about CO2 and the amount produced I have a detector located aproxamitly 6 feet from the stove at the base of a stairway if I open the door of the stove while burning within ONE Minute the detector is wailing away and must be reset, there are no margins of error with CO2 .


I think you ment CO not CO2. There's a big difference. If your detector is going off by opening the feed door something is wrong. Even with the door open and a good fire the flu gas should not come out into the space. Sounds like a flu problem.

Don
dirvine96
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Hitzer 82FA

Re: To Baro or Not to Baro?

PostBy: Cap On: Wed Dec 19, 2007 8:47 pm

Hey Mr Coalstove. I'm not a novice. And I like my soda & beer carbonated with the co2 you claim deadly. Maybe an asphyxiate but not deadly. In my setup, which is certaininly different than the next guy's, I prefer just a little more draft than what the baro is allowing. Is 220F sufficient temperature output ? That's all I can get without covering the baro with foil. Years past, I could easily get 300F without a baro in the flue line.

John, the baro prevents a high burn rate so the heat you think it may be holding back wasn't ever created in the first place. It simply adds cool air in order to allow a consistent rate of draft for various conditions. I need more draft, and not the type the bar tender serves.
Cap
 
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: Harman SF 250, domestic hot water loop, heat accumulator

Re: To Baro or Not to Baro?

PostBy: Wood'nCoal On: Wed Dec 19, 2007 9:02 pm

Hi Mark,

What does Harman recommend as the max draft for the TLC? I don't know if it's different than the 1.0 they say is the max for my stove. I would think you can go to the max draft allowed even if it means covering part of the baro opening so it draws less air. It just seems something isn't right here. I'm running at .05 and if I open the ash door vent way open I can get the pipe temp before the baro up well over 300 (surface mount thermometer).
Has anything else changed? What about the coal, is it the same as last year? Remember all the trouble I was having last year when I first started? I had no baro damper then, so the stove was drafting at whatever the chimney allowed and I still couldn't get enough heat from the stove, it was crappy coal. Just trying to think of possible reasons.
Wood'nCoal
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: 1959 EFM 350
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Harman Magnafire Mark I
Coal Size/Type: Rice and Chestnut
Other Heating: Fisher Fireplace Insert

Re: To Baro or Not to Baro?

PostBy: e.alleg On: Wed Dec 19, 2007 9:56 pm

Close off the damper and run at full draft and see what happens. Just make sure your chimney clearances are right because the pipe will likely get hotter than heck.
e.alleg
 
Stove/Furnace Make: EFM
Stove/Furnace Model: 520

Re: To Baro or Not to Baro?

PostBy: coaledsweat On: Wed Dec 19, 2007 10:34 pm

I just looked at a bunch of Harman user manuals and I just don't get it. They want a "minimum draft of .06 at the chimney" yet don't say what to run the unit at. Most manuals have no mention of any dampers and some forbid any. One said "adjust venting controls", yet makes no mention of what that might actually be. Is there something in its design that puts it off the beaten path?
coaledsweat
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Axeman Anderson 260M
Coal Size/Type: Pea

Re: To Baro or Not to Baro?

PostBy: Wood'nCoal On: Wed Dec 19, 2007 10:57 pm

Good question. I don't have experience with other stoves, so I really can't say. I do feel that the manual is vague about the particulars of operating the stove and of coal burning in general. I think the writers assume the buyer is knowledgeable about coal stoves in general and they rely on their dealers to handle the actual instructions and questions.
When I bought it I thought "I've run lots of wood stoves and burned them for years, how hard can coal burning be?"
Unfortunately, I didn't know anyone else who was heating with coal or remembered from "the old days". Until I found the forum, that is.
Wood'nCoal
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: 1959 EFM 350
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Harman Magnafire Mark I
Coal Size/Type: Rice and Chestnut
Other Heating: Fisher Fireplace Insert

Re: To Baro or Not to Baro?

PostBy: Cap On: Wed Dec 19, 2007 11:33 pm

See images. Note: If I open the manual damper any additional turns, the baro will simply open wider.
Attachments
12-19-07 001.jpg
(141.77 KiB) Viewed 56 times
View: New PagePopup • Select:BBCode
Baro damper working properly?
[nepathumb]2271[/nepathumb]
12-19-07 002.jpg
(153.76 KiB) Viewed 15 times
View: New PagePopup • Select:BBCode
Max temps at heat accumulator with 80% fire box burning deep mined stove coal.
[nepathumb]2272[/nepathumb]
12-19-07 003.jpg
(150.24 KiB) Viewed 21 times
View: New PagePopup • Select:BBCode
Current stack temp
[nepathumb]2273[/nepathumb]
Cap
 
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: Harman SF 250, domestic hot water loop, heat accumulator