Bringing new life to my new Gem Dockash stove

Re: Bringing new life to my new Gem Dockash stove

PostBy: joeq On: Fri Feb 15, 2013 10:48 pm

So what you're saying Nort, is that the old stoves were so tight, they were like Rolls Royces, and were made without gaskets?
joeq
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Surdiac Gotha 513
Stove/Furnace Make: Oil fired
Stove/Furnace Model: Thermopride

Re: Bringing new life to my new Gem Dockash stove

PostBy: franco b On: Fri Feb 15, 2013 11:13 pm

joeq wrote:So what you're saying Nort, is that the old stoves were so tight, they were like Rolls Royces, and were made without gaskets?

Only theoretically, some were, some weren't.
franco b
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: V ermont Castings 2310, Franco Belge 262
Baseburners & Antiques: Glenwood Modern Oak 114
Coal Size/Type: nut and pea

Re: Bringing new life to my new Gem Dockash stove

PostBy: LsFarm On: Sat Feb 16, 2013 1:09 am

Rolls Royce's don't have gaskets/?? what urban legend is that?? I thought I'd heard them all
Having worked on several Rolls', and owned one, vintages in the '30's and up through the 90's, I can
tell you that there is nothing special about rolls' over other quality cars..
And yes they have gaskets in all the normal places.

As for sealing up the ashpan door, check to see if there is air leaking in around the door buy using a smoke
source, line a cigarette or an incense stick and see if the smoke is drawn in around the door.
or you can use the 'dollar bill check'.. see if you can trap a dollar bill between the door and the ashpan base,,
if you can draw the dollar bill out easily, then the door pins need to be gently bent to tighten the door against
the ashpan base, or you might have to replace the pins if they are to worn or weak.
Is the firepot sealed with furnace cement where it it bolted to the ashpan base?

Greg L
LsFarm
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Axeman Anderson 260
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: Self-built 'Big Bertha' SS Boiler
Baseburners & Antiques: Keystone 11, Art Garland

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Re: Bringing new life to my new Gem Dockash stove

PostBy: wsherrick On: Sat Feb 16, 2013 5:07 am

On a good quality stove. The doors fit to their mating surface with a perfect fit that is air tight. After a Century of age, neglect and abuse; sometimes they do not anymore. It is a common issue that is easily and quickly remedied.
Most likely as Greg L said, the hinge pins and door latches wear out and sometimes a CAREFUL, TINY adjustment is all that is needed to make the door fit again. Don't go crazy bending hinge pins, you don't want to break one.
One of the bad things about putting rope gasket around doors is that most times this will cause a strain on the cast bracket that holds the door on the pins. I know because I broke a door that way trying to be smart years ago.
If you don't have play in the latch or hinges and you want to assure a snug fit, this is easy. Get some black high temperature silicone gasket goop, get some wax paper. Put the gasket material on the Body of the stove where the door is supposed to fit. Cover with wax paper. Close the door, then allow the gasket to set up for a awhile.
Open door and carefully remove wax paper. Now you have a custom gasket that fits.
With the door closed, get a utility knife and trim away the excess goop and it will be invisible.
wsherrick
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Glenwood Base Heater, Crawford Base Heater
Baseburners & Antiques: Crawford Base Heater, Glenwood, Stanley Argand
Coal Size/Type: Chestnut, Stove Size

Re: Bringing new life to my new Gem Dockash stove

PostBy: Photog200 On: Sat Feb 16, 2013 8:37 am

wsherrick wrote:On a good quality stove. The doors fit to their mating surface with a perfect fit that is air tight. After a Century of age, neglect and abuse; sometimes they do not anymore. It is a common issue that is easily and quickly remedied.
Most likely as Greg L said, the hinge pins and door latches wear out and sometimes a CAREFUL, TINY adjustment is all that is needed to make the door fit again. Don't go crazy bending hinge pins, you don't want to break one.
One of the bad things about putting rope gasket around doors is that most times this will cause a strain on the cast bracket that holds the door on the pins. I know because I broke a door that way trying to be smart years ago.
If you don't have play in the latch or hinges and you want to assure a snug fit, this is easy. Get some black high temperature silicone gasket goop, get some wax paper. Put the gasket material on the Body of the stove where the door is supposed to fit. Cover with wax paper. Close the door, then allow the gasket to set up for a awhile.
Open door and carefully remove wax paper. Now you have a custom gasket that fits.
With the door closed, get a utility knife and trim away the excess goop and it will be invisible.

Guys, on this issue with the ash pan door not sealing properly. The door has a lot of play in an up and down motion that the other doors do not have. When it is closed you can actually move the door a little near the hinges, it is tight at the latch section. This lead me to believe the pins were worn out. As a test, I took the top small door off and tried it in the ash pan brackets and the small door did the same thing. So this is a bigger problem, the actual bracket is elongated and not the pins being worn. So, the way I see to correct the problem would be to do as William suggests with the silicone sealant for temporary fix and then in the summer I would have to have the holes drilled out bigger and install bigger pins. Am I correct in this assessment?
Photog200
 
Baseburners & Antiques: Colonial Clarion cook stove, Kineo #15 base burner & Geneva Oak Andes #517
Coal Size/Type: Blaschak Chestnut
Other Heating: Electric Baseboard

Re: Bringing new life to my new Gem Dockash stove

PostBy: joeq On: Sat Feb 16, 2013 11:27 am

LsFarm wrote:Rolls Royce's don't have gaskets/?? what urban legend is that?? I thought I'd heard them all
Having worked on several Rolls', and owned one, vintages in the '30's and up through the 90's, I can
tell you that there is nothing special about rolls' over other quality cars..
And yes they have gaskets in all the normal places.
Greg L


You mean it's all a myth Greg? Unfortunately, I've never had the opportunity to not only own one, but even work on one, but this is the story I had heard. After the block of a Rolls eng. was cast, it was thrown into the outside elements to "season' for about 5 yrs. Then all the surfaces were machined to such a close tolerance, gaskets weren't necessary, (IE..heads, valve covers ect.) And you say... Hogwash?
joeq
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Surdiac Gotha 513
Stove/Furnace Make: Oil fired
Stove/Furnace Model: Thermopride

Re: Bringing new life to my new Gem Dockash stove

PostBy: LsFarm On: Sat Feb 16, 2013 4:31 pm

Yep, hogwash, so as nto to derail the thread topic, I'll PM you.

Potog200, the vertical play may not be a big problem, as long as there is no or very littl in and out play, creating an air gap between the door and stove ashpan base.

can you use a candle or cigarette to see if smoke or flame is sucked into the edge of the door? Did ou seal the base of the firepot to t the ashpan base?? Any and all air below the fire must be able to be shut off. You should be able to put out a wood fire by shutting all the air supply.

Greg
LsFarm
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Axeman Anderson 260
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: Self-built 'Big Bertha' SS Boiler
Baseburners & Antiques: Keystone 11, Art Garland

Re: Bringing new life to my new Gem Dockash stove

PostBy: Photog200 On: Sat Feb 16, 2013 5:31 pm

LsFarm wrote:Yep, hogwash, so as nto to derail the thread topic, I'll PM you.

Potog200, the vertical play may not be a big problem, as long as there is no or very littl in and out play, creating an air gap between the door and stove ashpan base.

can you use a candle or cigarette to see if smoke or flame is sucked into the edge of the door? Did ou seal the base of the firepot to t the ashpan base?? Any and all air below the fire must be able to be shut off. You should be able to put out a wood fire by shutting all the air supply.

Greg

That was the problem Greg, there was play in and out. Got it all fixed and that was where the air leak was coming from. I now have a fire coasting at 200°f. It is 82° in my living room (thermometer is not far from the stove though). This stove is going to be a heating monster! Starting to get use to it and how to control it.
Randy
Photog200
 
Baseburners & Antiques: Colonial Clarion cook stove, Kineo #15 base burner & Geneva Oak Andes #517
Coal Size/Type: Blaschak Chestnut
Other Heating: Electric Baseboard

Re: Bringing new life to my new Gem Dockash stove

PostBy: nortcan On: Sat Feb 16, 2013 11:06 pm

Super, now just stay warm and enjoy that nice stove.
nortcan
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Stuart,Peterson/ Grander
Stove/Furnace Model: Sunnyside/ Golden Bride

Re: Bringing new life to my new Gem Dockash stove

PostBy: Photog200 On: Sun Feb 17, 2013 7:22 am

I am very happy; I started the fire yesterday afternoon and got up this morning at 5:30. The temp on the stove was at 200° still but with it being only 9° outside it was 71° in the living room. That is a 16 hour burn and still putting out heat!
Photog200
 
Baseburners & Antiques: Colonial Clarion cook stove, Kineo #15 base burner & Geneva Oak Andes #517
Coal Size/Type: Blaschak Chestnut
Other Heating: Electric Baseboard

Re: Bringing new life to my new Gem Dockash stove

PostBy: joeq On: Sun Feb 17, 2013 10:47 am

Oh yeah, rub it in. :D I'ld kill for 8 hr burns. Congrats and nice job.
joeq
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Surdiac Gotha 513
Stove/Furnace Make: Oil fired
Stove/Furnace Model: Thermopride

Re: Bringing new life to my new Gem Dockash stove

PostBy: Photog200 On: Sun Feb 17, 2013 11:30 am

joeq wrote:Oh yeah, rub it in. :D I'ld kill for 8 hr burns. Congrats and nice job.

Hey Joeq, I was actually surprised at how well this stove did...pleasantly surprised. I know the big fire pot helps there, but it only took a coal scuttle full and a few more coal shovels to fill it back up. Thanks also for the compliments about the stove.
Randy
Photog200
 
Baseburners & Antiques: Colonial Clarion cook stove, Kineo #15 base burner & Geneva Oak Andes #517
Coal Size/Type: Blaschak Chestnut
Other Heating: Electric Baseboard

Re: Bringing new life to my new Gem Dockash stove

PostBy: Photog200 On: Tue Feb 19, 2013 4:36 pm

Well, the old girl took me to school the last couple of days but I am learning her quirks. I am also learning I have to be more patient about letting the coals get hotter before adding more coal. I also shook the grates too much yesterday and lost the fire. I think I have her figured out a bit more now but I know I have SOOOO much more to learn about burning coal! I picked up some stove coal today to try out, have been burning nut. The nut coal is so much more convenient to get as it is much closer but they do not carry stove. I had to drive 1.5 hrs in a snow storm today to get the stove.

I do have a question about the stove, on the back near the stove pipe there seems to be a check damper/draft. I am assuming that is to help combustion before going up the pipe. I also assume that helps to knock down the fire since it will be drawing in air from outside the stove and not up through the grates. I have noticed when I open it, the temps in the stack drop about 100°f. My question is (if my previous assumptions are correct), should I operate the stove with that open to help with combustion before going up the stack or should that remain closed unless needed to help control the fire?

Thank you all for your helpful suggestions on here, it makes the learning process a lot less painful.
Randy
Photog200
 
Baseburners & Antiques: Colonial Clarion cook stove, Kineo #15 base burner & Geneva Oak Andes #517
Coal Size/Type: Blaschak Chestnut
Other Heating: Electric Baseboard

Re: Bringing new life to my new Gem Dockash stove

PostBy: joeq On: Tue Feb 19, 2013 6:30 pm

I wish I had some advice for you Randy, but I'm not familiar with "my" stove,never mind yours. I am curious about your comment with the damper behind your stove, and saying you think it's for more complete burning "after" the grates. My problem is when my grates clog with ash,(every 4-5 hrs) my fire starts to go out. If it were able to take air from above or around the grates, would it last longer? The way I see it, If it didn't pull air through the grates, the fire wouldn't burn very hot. It seems to me it would be like putting a pile of coal on the ground, and lighting it. I'm under the impression, the drafted air, being "sucked" through coal bed, is what makes it work. If your damper is above the coal bed, (not through the grates),and your grates were clogged, how would the draft fuel the fire? (maybe I'm viewing this wrong.)
joeq
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Surdiac Gotha 513
Stove/Furnace Make: Oil fired
Stove/Furnace Model: Thermopride

Re: Bringing new life to my new Gem Dockash stove

PostBy: Photog200 On: Tue Feb 19, 2013 6:56 pm

joeq wrote:I wish I had some advice for you Randy, but I'm not familiar with "my" stove,never mind yours. I am curious about your comment with the damper behind your stove, and saying you think it's for more complete burning "after" the grates. My problem is when my grates clog with ash,(every 4-5 hrs) my fire starts to go out. If it were able to take air from above or around the grates, would it last longer? The way I see it, If it didn't pull air through the grates, the fire wouldn't burn very hot. It seems to me it would be like putting a pile of coal on the ground, and lighting it. I'm under the impression, the drafted air, being "sucked" through coal bed, is what makes it work. If your damper is above the coal bed, (not through the grates),and your grates were clogged, how would the draft fuel the fire? (maybe I'm viewing this wrong.)

What I believe the air vent/damper on the back of the stove does is just fine tune the fire. If it is getting a little to hot and you open that damper a little, it allows some air to come in through the outside of the stove where it does not pull as much through the grates. I think it also allows a bit more air to complete the combustion and burn off the gases before going up the chimney. Now, I could be wrong about that vent/damper but that is what I think it is for and that is what I was looking for clarification on. You are completely correct that the air does have to come up through the grates to have the coals burn.

Randy
Photog200
 
Baseburners & Antiques: Colonial Clarion cook stove, Kineo #15 base burner & Geneva Oak Andes #517
Coal Size/Type: Blaschak Chestnut
Other Heating: Electric Baseboard

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