How "Low" can you go? (pix)

Re: How "Low" can you go? (pix)

PostBy: Lightning On: Thu Feb 21, 2013 5:30 pm

joeq wrote:I have no problem making heat when I'm able to be around the house to constantly scrape the grates every 2-3 hrs. My complaint is when I go to bed, and wake up to a stove almost out, and not producing any heat. My twisted way of thinking is that if I can slow the burn rate down at nite, the coal consumption will be reduced, and while we're all under covers(staying warm), there won't be as much ash accumulation to clog the grates.


I'm sure you love your stove my friend, but maybe a bigger one would make your life a little warmer :D
Lightning
 
Hand Fed Coal Furnace: Clayton 1537G
Coal Size/Type: Nut/Stove Size Mix

Re: How "Low" can you go? (pix)

PostBy: franco b On: Thu Feb 21, 2013 5:30 pm

If your thermostat is working properly and you don't mind the lower heat output you should easily be able to go 8 hours before shake down.
franco b
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: V ermont Castings 2310, Franco Belge 262
Baseburners & Antiques: Glenwood Modern Oak 114
Coal Size/Type: nut and pea

Re: How "Low" can you go? (pix)

PostBy: joeq On: Thu Feb 21, 2013 6:20 pm

franco b wrote:If your thermostat is working properly and you don't mind the lower heat output you should easily be able to go 8 hours before shake down.


:D Easily! That's my problem FB, It flat-out WON'T go 8 hrs, (on my current set-up). The stove thermostat does operate, and I can make it burn hotter,or slower. Just refuses to go longer than 3-4 hrs making heat. (with-out scraping) The coals will stay lit after, say about 6-8 hrs, (up in the hopper), but the coal bed is klinkers and ashes after 5-6 hrs, with very little action going on. I can bring it back to life, with little effort from about the 4-6 hr range. Haven't had the opportunity to try after 8 hrs, but it will "definitely not" be producing any heat at that time, or even after 4-5 hrs. But it's comments like yours that give me an optimistic outlook into the future. all I need is the "secret tip" :idea: that'll give me that reward.
And Lightning, as for the bigger stove, it'll probably happen in time. I do love the style of the cylindrical turn of the century, pot-belly ones, but the surround that I've just built,may be better suited to a rectangular stove. I don't know at this point. I'll play with this Surdiac for a couple 3 seasons, and keep my eyes open for better options.
For now, thanx all for your help through this learning process.
joeq
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Surdiac Gotha 513
Stove/Furnace Make: Oil fired
Stove/Furnace Model: Thermopride

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Re: How "Low" can you go? (pix)

PostBy: franco b On: Thu Feb 21, 2013 7:04 pm

Check your ash door gasket for tightness, and the thermostat damper for good sealing. Aren't there two settings for hopper height? Should be high. With the thermostat set on its lowest setting it should just about kill the fire.
franco b
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: V ermont Castings 2310, Franco Belge 262
Baseburners & Antiques: Glenwood Modern Oak 114
Coal Size/Type: nut and pea

Re: How "Low" can you go? (pix)

PostBy: Lightning On: Thu Feb 21, 2013 7:28 pm

You are saying that it clogs with ash and starts loosing heat after just 3-4 hours. Is it possible that when you shake and reload, maybe you aren't shaking out the ash thoroughly enough?
Lightning
 
Hand Fed Coal Furnace: Clayton 1537G
Coal Size/Type: Nut/Stove Size Mix

Re: How "Low" can you go? (pix)

PostBy: joeq On: Thu Feb 21, 2013 8:29 pm

FB, If my fire was too hot, (due to a gasket leak), my coal bed would be burning out of control .Besides, when I freshened the stove up less than a yr and a half ago, I installed all new gaskets. My thermostat knob has settings ranging from numbers 0-10. If I set the knob to 1/2, (between 0 and 1), it'll burn very slow, and the heat exchanger temp. will maintain a lower reading in the 250-300* mark. If I gradually increase it to #1, the temps will rise and maintain around 400* or so. When the outside temps are single digits to the teens, I might increase it to # 1+1/2 - 2, which will make it run in the 450-500* area. I don't understand it, but it seems there's a ratio problem, cause if it were set anything above 3-4, it would just boil out the stove. Even tho this doesn't sound right, the stove still will respond at the lower numbers, so I don't see this as a problem.
As for the hopper height, there are locating ears that suspend it, and the the ducting on the top to feed it, doesn't appear that it would allow the hopper to be set higher. I'm waiting for a DVD to arrive that I purchased from the net, that tells about all the operating characteristics and operations of this stove, so maybe I will learn something from it. I'm surprised it hasn't arrived yet, cause it's been over a week. I'll keep you guys informed when it arrives if there is anything pertinent that may help some-one else.
joeq
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Surdiac Gotha 513
Stove/Furnace Make: Oil fired
Stove/Furnace Model: Thermopride

Re: How "Low" can you go? (pix)

PostBy: joeq On: Thu Feb 21, 2013 8:45 pm

Lightning wrote:You are saying that it clogs with ash and starts loosing heat after just 3-4 hours. Is it possible that when you shake and reload, maybe you aren't shaking out the ash thoroughly enough?


there are no shaker grates on this stove Lightning.Just a scraping knife that runs under the coal bed through some (3) ports in the frt. Basically, I use a stabbing motion, poking in and out, from the frt to the rear, and slicing side to side, which moves all the ashes down, and the fresh coals above will drop onto the bed. Then I poke at it from the ash pan area below the grates with a tool I'm sure most of you people have, to clear your grates. I already posted this on another thread, but just to show again this is what the scraping tool looks like for this stove. (Factory supplied)
Image
If you look hard enuff, you'll see the point at the back side of the grates. when the grates are clogged (after 2-3 hrs) and I open my ash pan door, there is no "glowing" into the pan area. Once I start scraping and poking, I can see the clearing by light from above, glowing into the pan.I've spent as much as 2-3 mins straight, poking,slicing, and clearing as best I can. Do I get it all? obviously not, but as much as I can without shutting down and vacuuming out all the areas above the grates(on the side), that I can't reach from below. when I 1st fire the stove, and all the coal is fresh, and the ashes haven't formed all around the inside, it will burn a tad longer overnite, but not anything substantial.
Thanx again for your reponses
joeq
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Surdiac Gotha 513
Stove/Furnace Make: Oil fired
Stove/Furnace Model: Thermopride

Re: How "Low" can you go? (pix)

PostBy: Lightning On: Thu Feb 21, 2013 9:28 pm

Oh no shaking grates... Well that explains it. I'm kinda surprised you can burn coal at all in it. I don't mean that to sound bad :oops: .. I'm impressed :D I couldn't imagine not having shakable grates.
Lightning
 
Hand Fed Coal Furnace: Clayton 1537G
Coal Size/Type: Nut/Stove Size Mix

Re: How "Low" can you go? (pix)

PostBy: franco b On: Thu Feb 21, 2013 9:54 pm

Lightning wrote:Oh no shaking grates... Well that explains it. I'm kinda surprised you can burn coal at all in it. I don't mean that to sound bad :oops: .. I'm impressed :D I couldn't imagine not having shakable grates.

Actually slicing is more effective than most shaker grate designs.

The slots in the fire pot grate look very narrow making it harder for ash to fall,

The hopper looks so low it might not be filling the fire pot, for a longer burn more coal has to be burning. I would add protection to the sides and back above the fire pot and then do whatever it takes to get a deeper bed of coal which might mean cutting an inch from the bottom of the hopper or taking it out altogether and adding to the front of the fire pot if coal spills over.

I think the thermostat is out of calibration. Set it at zero to see what happens.

The slots for the slicing poker have to be covered when not in use to control the fire with the thermostat.
franco b
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: V ermont Castings 2310, Franco Belge 262
Baseburners & Antiques: Glenwood Modern Oak 114
Coal Size/Type: nut and pea

Re: How "Low" can you go? (pix)

PostBy: joeq On: Thu Feb 21, 2013 11:09 pm

The slots that you're seeing FB, is the bottom of the aprons or skirts. Here's a pic of the grates W/O the skirts installed
Image
The hopper height is set by the designer, and you'ld think it would be placed "practically" or efficiently(?) At the rate it's deteriorating, it won't be long before its bottom edges will be raised and opened up anyway, allowing a "taller" bed.i purchased a duplicate parts stove last yr, and it's hopper was worn 3 times worse. I've been accused of running the stove too hot, but if this is the case, what is too hot? I've got a temp indicator that just rests on top of the heat exchanger (the hottest point accessible and external.) when the coals are almost out, and residual heat is still retained, it'll register about 200* or less. When the stove is running normally, (in my eyes), it's showing 400. the hottest I've cranked it is 500*. Never maxed out the gauge to 600. Is this "too hot"? and many times, when the hopper uses up its supply, the bottom of it will glow till i refill it with fresh coal. I've been told on this site, that's what causes this deterioration. If I had to keep the thing 1/2 full at all times, it would have to be loaded every couple hrs or so. (I'll never be able to keep up with that. especially overnite)
If I set the thermostat to "0", the damper doesn't open, and the fire goes out. I agree the calibration is off, but still don't see how it will affect the problem of excessive ash build up which is restricting air through the grates. As mentioned, I can slow the stove down with the thermostat and the MPD.
and yes, the slots for the poker have little flapper doors that close to cover the holes, and I always make sure nothing obstructs them when I'm done poking and scraping.
It may appear to all you readers, that I'm totally disgusted with this stove. In reality, I'm just learning its limitations and getting to the point of acceptance. It didn't cost me but a couple hundred, (about 15 yrs ago), and it does supply decent heat for my little home to keep us comfortable. it's apparent that a little more work is involved to maintain operations compared to other stoves, but at this point, I'll live with it. Just trying to fine tune it as much as possible, and I'm extremely grateful for everyones patience with me and all your advice. Thank you.
joeq
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Surdiac Gotha 513
Stove/Furnace Make: Oil fired
Stove/Furnace Model: Thermopride

Re: How "Low" can you go? (pix)

PostBy: wsherrick On: Thu Feb 21, 2013 11:11 pm

The magazine looks very burned. Is that normal for these stoves?
wsherrick
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Glenwood Base Heater, Crawford Base Heater
Baseburners & Antiques: Crawford Base Heater, Glenwood, Stanley Argand
Coal Size/Type: Chestnut, Stove Size

Re: How "Low" can you go? (pix)

PostBy: joeq On: Thu Feb 21, 2013 11:20 pm

If the color is in question, it's red because in the picture, it is still wet from me rubbing it down with baking soda and water. Was in the cleaning process when I shot these photos. But the distortion on the bottom has definitely been "progressive" as I use it this full 1st season of use.
joeq
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Surdiac Gotha 513
Stove/Furnace Make: Oil fired
Stove/Furnace Model: Thermopride

Re: How "Low" can you go? (pix)

PostBy: franco b On: Fri Feb 22, 2013 11:51 am

How many pound per day are you burning? A scuttle full is about 20 pounds. I would consider 40 pounds the maximum for that stove. Lower ash coal might help. What coal are you burning?

Take the hopper out and load manually as high as it will go slanting the coal bed toward the back. You will get more radiation and output from the top of the stove without the hopper blocking it. Without trying something different you are just going in circles. If nothing else you will learn if a deeper bed extends burn time. Could some blocks under the hopper tabs raise it , or will hitting the top of the stove prevent this?
franco b
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: V ermont Castings 2310, Franco Belge 262
Baseburners & Antiques: Glenwood Modern Oak 114
Coal Size/Type: nut and pea

Re: How "Low" can you go? (pix)

PostBy: joeq On: Fri Feb 22, 2013 10:19 pm

It burns roughly 45-60lbs a day, FB, and the Surdiac recommends anthracite pea coal,(Blaschack), so that's what I run. I've mentioned B4 I've mixed nut with unsuccessful results.It'ld be nice if there were a coal that left less ash. Know of any?
I was rewarded this morning with a very healthy looking coal bed to my surprise, only to be informed after work by my wife that she was up early in the morning for some water, and decided to scrape the coals while up. :|
As for removing the hopper, I'll give it a try, next time I shut down the stove. We've got some weather for the next few days, but if it warms a little next week, I'll shut it down to clean, and give your method a shot. and yes, the hopper can't go higher due to the shielding. and where is my Surdiac Video I ordered over a week ago? Sorry for late replying. Had to work OT tonite.
joeq
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Surdiac Gotha 513
Stove/Furnace Make: Oil fired
Stove/Furnace Model: Thermopride

Re: How "Low" can you go? (pix)

PostBy: franco b On: Fri Feb 22, 2013 11:31 pm

At that burning rate (which is high) with a 100 square inch grate area with about a 4 inch coal depth there is no way to get a longer burn except by increasing the depth.

If you do try without the hopper remember to load in smaller layers to avoid any puff backs.

Without the hopper you should be able to load coal to a greater depth by slanting to the back and almost overflowing the front. Try to make note of coal depth before and after.

If it looks promising then the fire box can be made deeper by adding refractory protection to the back and sides as well as building up the front.

You mentioned a parts stove. Maybe the top of that parts hopper could be cut off to sit higher.
franco b
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: V ermont Castings 2310, Franco Belge 262
Baseburners & Antiques: Glenwood Modern Oak 114
Coal Size/Type: nut and pea

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