1 Flue, 2 Fuels?

1 Flue, 2 Fuels?

PostBy: ntp71 On: Fri Feb 22, 2013 8:53 pm

Hello,

Before I added my coal stoker to my chimney, I first placed the Gas Furnace on a Power Vent. Now the Gas Furnace is used as a supplement heat to the Coal Stove. I believe after I insulate the Basement Ceiling I will be burning very little GAS.

My question is....Did I need to put the Gas Furnace on the power Vent, or could I have left it vented into the Chimney? Can I have 2 different fuels(Coal and Gas) in one Flue?

In case you are wondering, it was not feasible to put the coal stoker on the Power Vent so I opted for the Gas furnace figuring it wouldn't be running much.

Thanks again.

Neal
ntp71
 
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: Reading Foundry Water Heater
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: Old Mill Mini Stoker
Baseburners & Antiques: Caloric UltraMatic Coal-Gas Range

Re: 1 Flue, 2 Fuels?

PostBy: Wiz On: Fri Feb 22, 2013 9:39 pm

No. Insurance will not insure you, any lost from fire will be out of pocket expense. Also code violation.
Wiz
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Keystoker Ka 6
Coal Size/Type: Casey Junk Coal :(

Re: 1 Flue, 2 Fuels?

PostBy: ntp71 On: Fri Feb 22, 2013 10:13 pm

OK.. Thank you
ntp71
 
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: Reading Foundry Water Heater
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: Old Mill Mini Stoker
Baseburners & Antiques: Caloric UltraMatic Coal-Gas Range


Re: 1 Flue, 2 Fuels?

PostBy: Berlin On: Sat Feb 23, 2013 12:01 am

Actually, that's not entirely true. Unless it's fraud, insurance will insure you. Knowing it's not smart to smoke in bed, if you do it, fall asleep, and thusly light the house on fire, you will be covered. This is a common misconception about insurance, they WILL actually insure and cover just about any stupid thing you do which causes a loss.

Now that that's debunked, there is really no danger to running two appliances with one flue even using two different fuels - in fact, the code in most states allows it specifically in the cases of mixing NG/oil/propane. There is a proper way to plumb the appliances based on forced/atmospheric draft and which is most draft sensitive. There is a code prohibition on involving 'solid fuels' in the same flue as the others however. This is due to wood's creosote production and a fear of allowing combustion air into a raging chimney fire. As coal produces NO creosote whatsoever, this is a non-issue and one that has been overlooked when the rules (codes) were made.

Can it be done safely? yes. Would I recommend others do it in a proper way? yes. Would I recommend it to a friend? absolutely. Will your insurance cover a loss on your home if something, somewhere isn't exactly to code? yes. Will it be "to the letter" of code in most states? No.
Berlin
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Furnace: Will-Burt Combustioneer 77B
Coal Size/Type: Ohio BITUMINOUS pea stoker coal

Re: 1 Flue, 2 Fuels?

PostBy: Wiz On: Sat Feb 23, 2013 8:05 am

Call your insurance company.. I was declined home owners insurance for this reason, but it was wood boiler and oil boiler using same flue. If you search this question you'll get 2 answers yes you can and no you can't.
Last edited by Wiz on Sat Feb 23, 2013 8:16 am, edited 1 time in total.
Wiz
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Keystoker Ka 6
Coal Size/Type: Casey Junk Coal :(

Re: 1 Flue, 2 Fuels?

PostBy: Wiz On: Sat Feb 23, 2013 8:08 am

Wiz
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Keystoker Ka 6
Coal Size/Type: Casey Junk Coal :(

Re: 1 Flue, 2 Fuels?

PostBy: Lightning On: Sat Feb 23, 2013 8:50 am

Berlin, I installed my furnace the best I could with safety being a primary factor. I didn't have a pro inspect it and I never told my insurance company. Your saying they will still cover me if I accidentally have a house fire caused by it?
Lightning
 
Hand Fed Coal Furnace: Clayton 1537G
Coal Size/Type: Nut Size / White Ash

Re: 1 Flue, 2 Fuels?

PostBy: Wiz On: Sat Feb 23, 2013 9:15 am

Lightning wrote: I never told my insurance company. Your saying they will still cover me if I accidentally have a house fire caused by it?
I rather be safe then sorry. ;)
Last edited by Wiz on Sat Feb 23, 2013 9:20 am, edited 1 time in total.
Wiz
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Keystoker Ka 6
Coal Size/Type: Casey Junk Coal :(

Re: 1 Flue, 2 Fuels?

PostBy: MoBe On: Sat Feb 23, 2013 9:18 am

It seems this changes like the weather. I was always under the impression one device per flue.... However, my uncle just had an inspection by his insurance, he has an oil boiler and an AA130 in the same flue. He was told as long as they are interlocked and cannot run at the same time it's ok..... I have also had people give me boilers to tear out because insurance said the would no longer cover the dwelling if there was a coal boiler in the basement. As I said changes like the weather
MoBe
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: AA 130, Stokol Stoker, Gentleman Janitor
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: American Standard, National, Burnham, US National
Stove/Furnace Make: American Standard
Stove/Furnace Model: Red Flash #3-9, Red Flash #2-7

Re: 1 Flue, 2 Fuels?

PostBy: SMITTY On: Sat Feb 23, 2013 4:46 pm

When I first moved in here in '03, the insurance company sent me a drawing (along with the pile of paper you get when you first open a policy) showing a wood stove & and oil burner in THE SAME FLUE. It said right on the paper that the wood stove had to be BELOW the oil flue - why, I have no idea. 2 years later when I decided to go with coal, all of a sudden they did a complete 180° - the lady just about jumped through the phone for me mentioning it! " WOOAH! YOU CAN'T DO THAT!!!!" :roll:

So, WTF changed in 2 years? :lol:

So with that, instead of spending $2k on a new chimney (that's the LOW end out here), I just used the hole that was already in the chimney for the coal stove. Been burning 8 years now, without ONCE EVER hearing my CO detector. Yeah, it works - brought it out in the barn & within 30 seconds of starting my motorcycle, it was screaming.

I just changed the battery today - date I always write on them said January '10 - not bad! :D
SMITTY
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Patriot Coal - custom built by Jim Dorsey
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Harman Mark III (not currently in use)
Coal Size/Type: Rice / Blaschak anthracite
Other Heating: Oil fired Burnham boiler

Re: 1 Flue, 2 Fuels?

PostBy: coaledsweat On: Sat Feb 23, 2013 4:52 pm

Burnham Boiler's recommendation.

vent coal stove with oil furnace?
coaledsweat
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Axeman Anderson 260M
Coal Size/Type: Pea

Re: 1 Flue, 2 Fuels?

PostBy: ntp71 On: Sat Feb 23, 2013 11:01 pm

I really appreciate all of the replies. Looks as though I will just leave my set up the way it is. Gas Furnace to Power Vent, and Stoker to chimney. However, for now I will leave the Gas Water Heater to chimney.
ntp71
 
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: Reading Foundry Water Heater
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: Old Mill Mini Stoker
Baseburners & Antiques: Caloric UltraMatic Coal-Gas Range

Re: 1 Flue, 2 Fuels?

PostBy: SMITTY On: Sat Feb 23, 2013 11:09 pm

The thing with gas is, if ever the pilot extinguished, the potential for an epic explosion is pretty high when a solid fuel appliance is vented to the same flue. :shock:
SMITTY
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Patriot Coal - custom built by Jim Dorsey
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Harman Mark III (not currently in use)
Coal Size/Type: Rice / Blaschak anthracite
Other Heating: Oil fired Burnham boiler

Re: 1 Flue, 2 Fuels?

PostBy: beemerboy On: Sat Feb 23, 2013 11:29 pm

I would do oil and coal in the same flue, but gas, I would have on its own.
beemerboy
 
Stove/Furnace Make: SAEY
Stove/Furnace Model: Hannover 1

Re: 1 Flue, 2 Fuels?

PostBy: Berlin On: Sun Feb 24, 2013 12:10 am

really smitty, really? :roll: y'r killing me

That's not going to happen for so many reasons it's not worth going through. This potential pilot light/same flue danger ranks right up there with the risk that crumbs spilled on the kitchen floor might spontaneously combust.



I really don't know why people seem to think there is some kind of magic at work here... there isn't. This is really quite simple, it's not to "code" because code was written with a specific danger in mind and that involves burning WOOD. Chimneys are really quite simple things - the complexity comes from deliberate obfuscation of the how they perform and their safety by those with an agenda. As far as safety goes - plumbed properly there's no safety issue as long as you're not burning wood.

In my own home I have two gas appliances and my stoker furnace in the same flue; it works very well, I wouldn't have it any other way. More importantly there's no legitimate reason for anyone else to have it any other way with one exception. The only legitimate exception is that they want to follow code in their location, not to make puppies happier, not appease their insurance man, not to make their home "safer", but simply because they want to follow the code.
Berlin
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Furnace: Will-Burt Combustioneer 77B
Coal Size/Type: Ohio BITUMINOUS pea stoker coal