Diary of a Surdiac

 
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confedsailor
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Location: Moosup Ct
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: 100 KBtu Chappee
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Surdiac 513
Other Heating: Oil Fired 1950"s American Standard Arcoliner 132K BTU

Post by confedsailor » Sat. Feb. 07, 2015 2:51 pm

joeq wrote:Sorry to have missed this post, but have had some "technical difficulties" these past few days.
Not sure where I was at that day, but did have some success getting the stove to heat up, "at times", but haven't nailed down the reasoning yet. Some days are better than others. Because of these single digit temps, and the stove on "higher", it's requiring ash clearing more frequently (naturally), but I'm impressed that it does an OK job of providing heat, when staying on top of it. (Not literally) :D
Saw the exact same thing, if you are using a 513 to heat a room it's perfection, if you are heating a house with it...stand by to slice and fill.


 
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joeq
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Hand Fed Coal Stove: G111, Southard Robertson

Post by joeq » Sun. Feb. 08, 2015 2:00 pm

I can't believe I just spent much time making this reply with photos...and like an idiot, hit the wrong button and Xed out B4 I posted it. :mad: Now I'm starting over.
Long story short, my fire looked pathetic this morning after 7 hrs sleep, so I shut the stove down, for some much needed cleaning and vacuuming. The oats today are mid 30s, so why not? I began start-up with scrap wood and newspaper, and had her back up and running in about an hour. Here's some "sequential" photos of the fire-up.
About a 1/2 hr in,
Surdiac blaschak 001.JPG
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Maybe 45, adding more
Surdiac blaschak 003.JPG
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Close to an hr,
Surdiac blaschak 004.JPG
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Surdiac blaschak 005.JPG
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If you zoom in, you can check out the blue flames. Not bad for Blas-yeck.

 
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joeq
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Post by joeq » Sun. Feb. 08, 2015 2:12 pm

So here we are, waiting more snow. The cold has temporarily visited someone else, and I'm running a fresh stove on Blaschak. Maybe it's because the oats are barely freezing, but after 2 1/2 hrs, the stove is having a hard time getting up to temp. This is the coal bed after a couple hrs, running wide open.
Surdiac blaschak 006.JPG
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Surdiac blaschak 007.JPG
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I just checked the gauge, and it is "slowly" creeping to "almost" 400*, but being that the MPD, and t-stat are open wide, and the baro is almost blocked, my draft is at -.05 and I'm thinking this thing should be roaring. I guess it's still early after initial fire-up, and maybe will come on stronger when the sun goes down.

 
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joeq
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Post by joeq » Sun. Feb. 08, 2015 2:43 pm

And "Viola"! 4 hours in, and she's back on line. Had to crank the T-stat up to 3, but she's back to normal. Now I can move on to bigger and better things. :)
surdiac 2015 001.JPG
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surdiac 2015 010.JPG
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Now I can reset my Baro, and MPD, and wait for the cold.
P.S. I just did my 1st riddling since initial firing, and the riddle bar went through the coal bed like a hot knife through butter. I know it's clean and all, but "WOW"! I also disconnected the grate bar sticking out of the lower RHS of the stove, to allow better riddling on that side. Hopefully it'll allow the riddle bar to scrape under the skirting on that side, and keep the ashes from building . when I cleaned the stove, and it was open, I slid the draw bar outward, away from the grate, and the RHS skirting. Now the riddle bar runs through there unobstructed.

 
Belgianburner
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Hand Fed Coal Stove: Surdiac Gotha 713
Other Heating: heat pump (electric backup)

Post by Belgianburner » Sat. Feb. 14, 2015 10:42 am

Hello Joe et al:

Brand new member John W. here...I recently (as of last winter) revisited the zen art of coalburning, after a lengthy hiatus, in which my stoves sat ignored and humiliated by all the dust and items that collected upon them. I walked by them daily and forgot they were there. Then one day the ol' light bulb went off.

So what makes me #7 on this particular thread? Well, an internet search for info on these 30+ year old Euro stoves....must be a good reason why so many are still in circulation. I've been through a few, but never had experience with any other type.
This thread certainly was a wealth of information, even though I did marvel at Joe's OCD-esque quest for fine-tuning that stove of his.

At present, I have a 715 (I THINK) that's working well. I riddle her two to three times daily and she almost never goes out. I too, would be interested to know what that calibrated bar sticking out of the heat exchanger does? Joe, any mention of it in your video? It only needs some glass, and this thread has me considering the one piece replacement.

So, on to my questions for the experts: My other stove (in another house) is a Franco Belge...not sure of the model, but it's about the same size as the Surdiac, and has the "Gotha-like" trim. This stove overfires, even with the ash door tightly shut and thermo-damper not engaged. I have a manual damper & no barometric. The hopper plate is warped (no wonder!), making the opening narrower in the middle, so the coal does not gravity feed as it should. This stove, as is, needs tended every few hours. Over four and it needs CPR. 5 or 6 and it's "good night Irene" (oh no, not again, grrrrr).

Now, before anyone makes suggestions, I am curious why the distance from the hopper to the grates is so wide on these compared to the Surdiacs? Will a new hopper really help that much? If anyone has had good results with their F-B (and maybe that should be a fresh thread), I'll listen, but for what it will cost to fix this old relic up, I'm thinking it might be smarter to "jump ship." There are two Surdiac Gothas for sale near me, one is a 713, and the other could be also, or possibly a 513 (owner isn't sure). My house is small (about 1300SF) and well insulated. Open floor plan and central (indoor) chimney (the house was designed to heat with a stove). Would a 513 step up to the plate, or should I stick with a 713? I don't mind if the heat pump comes on occasionally because it helps circulate the warm air aloft.

I have a friend who is "strong-arming" me into a Harmon, but y'know, there's just something about those Europeans (maybe like cars?). AND, they're way cheaper (a few hundred vs. a few thousand!!).

Thanks in advance for your comments, this looks like a site I will visit often for ideas, advice and "coal talk." (My brother in law looked at me and said: "People still BURN that??")

 
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joeq
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Post by joeq » Sat. Feb. 14, 2015 12:00 pm

Welcome aboard JW.,
Not sure how your winter is over there, but since the beginning of this year, ole man winter has been giving our stoves a work-out. And my 513, (tho a little temperamental), has been handling the task admirably. (Considering).
If you're curious, dedicated, and persistent enuff, and you actually read this entire thread, you'll see all the obstacles I've been through, not trying to make more heat, but extend the burn times. Nothing was more frustrating than going to bed, and waking to a fire that "appeared", (the key word here), to be smothered in grey ash, and having to re-lite. Remember, that this is the 1st and only solid fuel device I've ever owned/experienced, and needed to be educated to "everything". There were many fires that seemed hopeless to me, but in time, learned the intricacies of saving such circumstances. Honestly, due to the advice of many site members that have assisted me through many dilemmas, I have been proud to say there isn't hardly any low fires anymore that I can't re-ignite. There truly is an art to knowing and applying these techniques, that the novice couldn't possibly imagine.
If you own a Franco B stove already John, one of our members, (who also has been instrumental in assisting me with great advice) should be along to give you the advice towards your stove. (Or that stove, I forgot already which is yours). His screen name is just that,"franco b".
Concerning your questions with the Surdiac 513/713, the 713 is the bigger stove, and "should" perform better than the 513, but I've heard of members with the 713(715?), that seem to have similar problems. My hopper has been distorted, and the only way to prevent this, is to not use it, or light the stove. Personally, I don't see any way to prevent this occurrence from happening. If you read above, you'll see that 2 times I've trimmed the bottom of my hopper, and the last time gained a big "inch" over the stock configuration, (depth wise), and it does seem to help making the stoves output warmer. Opening up the grates also has helped some, but not as much as I had hoped. I'll still stand by my experience that the biggest improvement came with the addition of the Baro-damper. In line with the MPD and the manometer, you really can tune this stove to where it'll do mostly what is required.
With all that being said, I hope you enjoy burning the black rock, and remember, it'll take time to perfect, but is not only financially beneficial, but also enjoyable. hope to hear more from you.

 
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joeq
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Post by joeq » Sat. Feb. 14, 2015 12:26 pm

Here is something that here in the south, (southern NE) we're not suppose to be experiencing. Checked my stove at 4 this morning, and saw our oats at -3. That's a bit nippley even for here. And my kitchen temp, which is away from my stove, (which is set low for nite-time running), has dropped to 63.
it's being shown next to the stove, because it's portable, and wanted to show the glow of the still burning fire. It seems to like these frigid temps.
Surdiac 2015 004.JPG
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And her's my rain gauge, to keep an eye on how much precipitation we've accumulated.
Surdiac 2015 003.JPG
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And one more, for your viewing pleasure.
Surdiac 2015 001.JPG
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If you use your zoom, it looks better.


 
Belgianburner
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Hand Fed Coal Stove: Surdiac Gotha 713
Other Heating: heat pump (electric backup)

Post by Belgianburner » Sat. Feb. 14, 2015 2:20 pm

I might blow that last one up and attach it to my stove door when it dies! Looks extra nice with the new crystal clear glass...

Joe, thanks for the quick response. If you're a southerner, then I'm (relatively speaking) from South America (actually, I'm about 4 miles from Myer's, where you got fleeced for your glass). Seems you can buy these stoves cheap, but then bend over when you need parts.

I probably have a dozen seasons of coal burning under my belt, in these types of stoves, so I've had plenty of experience bringing coals back from the brink of the afterlife (no evident vital signs). But as you know, and as Kenny sings: "You gotta know when to hold em...know when to fold 'em..." Sometimes, it just makes more sense to bid them farewell and start over with a clean slate (er, grate!).

I don't want to buy a stove that's likely to need TLC, and I certainly don't want one that's too small for the job. But I have no problem with my 715, and it does a good job heating my house, so I think the 713 would be a better choice, but do you know the rated output of yours? I know someone posted that size is more suited for heating a room, but not a house. The F-B heats my other house fine when I can keep it going, so maybe if I can identify what model/size it is, that would help. I wonder why neither manufacturer put model #'s on them?

Oh, and as for how cold it is here, tomorrow looks like below zero wind chills and high wind advisories, maybe normal for you, but not for us.

 
franco b
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Post by franco b » Sat. Feb. 14, 2015 2:40 pm

Your Franco Belge sounds like a 10- 275R, there usually is a plate affixed with the model number and output. About 40 pounds a day is about tops without over firing. Yours has air leaks and has been over fired to warp a hopper bottom that is over 1 inch thick.

 
Belgianburner
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Hand Fed Coal Stove: Surdiac Gotha 713
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Post by Belgianburner » Sat. Feb. 14, 2015 3:40 pm

Yes, Franco Man, I believe you are correct on all points. And I've been advised not to try taking it apart and resealing it, because quite often the old parts end up cracking after retightening. It also needs new rope gaskets, glass, probably thermostatic damper, etc. It's been sitting here so long (almost 25 years) I can't even remember where I got it, but I'll guess at an auction for under $100.
It's nearly impossible to keep it from over-firing in it's present condition, but I don't think I was the first to punish that poor hopper.

Assuming you agree it's time to bail, what is your assessment of the various Surdiac models? What is the output rating of my F-B?
The plate says "Calibre 10x20 = 6400, 20x30 = 7200" Is that BTU's? Do you think a 513 could heat 1300SF (that's with all bedroom doors open, and we have 2 closed off)? I'm going to look at one next week, and am hoping it's a 713, but have to decide if I'll take it if it's a 513.

I see plenty of F-B's on craigslist, but not many Surdiacs, even though we had a dealer locally (Myer's).

 
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joeq
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Post by joeq » Sat. Feb. 14, 2015 3:55 pm

The 513 is rated at 33-44K, but I'm not sure how much bigger the 713 is. I just Googled some pics comparing the 713/715, and "visually" they both look equal in capacity, altho cosmetically, the 715 looks a little more "industrial". I have some brochures hidden away here, that might give stats to the bigger stoves, but I'll bet you could also find them on-line. I'll try to dig them out later.
And John, my house is approx. the same size as yours, 14-1500sq/ft, with 2 stories. My stove is installed 1st floor, on the opposite corner away from the stairwell, yet the upstairs hallway will run hi 70s-80*, when the living area reads lo 70s. But the end BDRM has a hard time getting over 65, when the oats are in the teens. If it were me, I'ld go for the 713, not the 513, just to say the burn times might be longer.

 
franco b
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Coal Size/Type: nut and pea

Post by franco b » Sat. Feb. 14, 2015 5:26 pm

The rating is in calories. 7300 Kcal. is 28,500 BTU. but I would use the lower number of 6400 which is 25,400 BTU.

The advantages of the Franco over the Surdiac are a bigger ash pan and the ability to shake as well as knife or slice the grates. I believe the Surdiac 713 is slightly bigger than the Franco.

 
Belgianburner
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Hand Fed Coal Stove: Surdiac Gotha 713
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Post by Belgianburner » Sat. Feb. 14, 2015 6:52 pm

You guys are great, thanks so much. I found this site just in time....

Well, if the 513 has a bit larger output than my F-B, I think either would do the job, but as you say, the 713 could do it at a lower setting.
As I said, I want the 713, but one is much further away and more $, so I'm hoping the other is a 713 as well, but for $200., I'll take it along either way. That's how much Myer's wants just for glass, yow.

Joe, the door frame on my 715 is 23-1/2" x 8-1/2". If you get a chance, could you check yours for me? Thanks mucho.
Oh, and it has twin ash pans...and I have an extra set, so I can pull the full ones out at night and not have to empty them 'til morn.....nice.

I don't think I'll get much sleep tonite...can't let that thing go out or it'll be freezin' in here.

 
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confedsailor
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Hand Fed Coal Boiler: 100 KBtu Chappee
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Other Heating: Oil Fired 1950"s American Standard Arcoliner 132K BTU

Post by confedsailor » Sat. Feb. 14, 2015 6:53 pm

The little bugger will fight hard, and the bigger grate on the 713 will be nice. Just be prepared to do the 2 hour poke n stoke if you are pushing a Beer and Waffle stove.

 
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joeq
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Post by joeq » Sat. Feb. 14, 2015 8:05 pm

Belgianburner wrote:You guys are great, thanks so much. I found this site just in time....
That's how much Myer's wants just for glass, yow.
Joe, the door frame on my 715 is 23-1/2" x 8-1/2". If you get a chance, could you check yours for me? Thanks mucho.
Oh, and it has twin ash pans...and I have an extra set, so I can pull the full ones out at night and not have to empty them 'til morn.....nice.
The 513 viewing area is 17x6 , and I too, just replaced 1/2 the panes. And you're right, they don't give them away. It's tough to keep them clean too. And having an extra ash pan is definitely a plus. I just pulled one out of the shed, a month ago, so when a full one comes out, and you're too lazy to dump it outside, I put it off to the side, install the clean one, and leave the full one for when the wife has to do it. :lol: (Bad joke...especially seeing it's VD day).


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