Diary of a Surdiac

Re: Diary of a Surdiac

PostBy: Lightning On: Thu Dec 26, 2013 10:17 pm

Use fiberglass insulation. Let me go look at your pics again.
Lightning
 
Hand Fed Coal Furnace: Clayton 1537G
Coal Size/Type: Nut Size / White Ash

Re: Diary of a Surdiac

PostBy: Lightning On: Thu Dec 26, 2013 10:22 pm

What was the wire in front of the glass for?
Lightning
 
Hand Fed Coal Furnace: Clayton 1537G
Coal Size/Type: Nut Size / White Ash

Re: Diary of a Surdiac

PostBy: warminmn On: Thu Dec 26, 2013 10:22 pm

Next time I work the crap out of the ashes in my stove I'll try to take a video of it. Even after slicing, the volume will be almost cut in half when Im done. But be patient, it may take a few days or a week as I need the right conditions. And I want some ash in it so you can see the results better.

I do think its building up in ash and when it does, maybe the air finds another path, just as has been mentioned. Especially since it runs fine when cleaned out. I dont think a baro will do you any good, at least not yet.

My grates, when new, had a fine kind of sharp edge in all the slots, from casting I imagine. It just about fit the edge of a 4" grinding wheel. So I took the grinder and just run it thru the slots and made them slightly wider. I cant say it will help you, but it made my slicing much easier. Do that at your own risk but it helped me.
warminmn
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Chubby Junior, Surdiac Nestor Martin
Coal Size/Type: nut ant
Other Heating: wood

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Re: Diary of a Surdiac

PostBy: joeq On: Thu Dec 26, 2013 10:32 pm

lewis wrote:The threads kinda long to read from the beginning You need a good draft. other thought is the gates are all plugged up cause your the guy that tried to burn Rice in it.
Should burn 8 - 10 hrs easy between shakes and never go out.


You're right, it is a long thread. Its purpose is not just to help "me" with "my" problems, but hopefully the info experienced members here have been advising will also benefit people with similar issues. The thread is very detailed and specific to a common complaint inexperienced operators like me often battle with in the initial stages of coal operation. That would be "short burn times". Each application is different, and in this thread I've tried to list all variables affecting my situation. It may not pertain to yours, but maybe some-one elses.
You mentioned in your response I may have a poor draft. Above I've stated my manometer always shows a great draft, (maybe too much), which I try to control with an MPD.
secondly, my grates "do" clog every few hrs, necessitating in riddling often to keep them breathing. And 3rd, no I never put rice in my stove.
Lastly, I would love to go 8-10 hrs with-out having to tend to the stove. After a couple of full seasons with this stove, (Surdiac 513), I don't see how it's possible. Even if I could keep the fire burning that long, the hopper still needs to be fed every 4-6 hrs. thanx for your input
joeq
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Surdiac Gotha 513
Stove/Furnace Make: Oil fired
Stove/Furnace Model: Thermopride

Re: Diary of a Surdiac

PostBy: joeq On: Thu Dec 26, 2013 10:39 pm

warminmn wrote:Next time I work the crap out of the ashes in my stove I'll try to take a video of it. Even after slicing, the volume will be almost cut in half when Im done. But be patient, it may take a few days or a week as I need the right conditions. And I want some ash in it so you can see the results better.
I do think its building up in ash and when it does, maybe the air finds another path, just as has been mentioned. Especially since it runs fine when cleaned out. I dont think a baro will do you any good, at least not yet.


warmin, a few members in the past recommended opening the glass door to eliminate the draft drawing ash out the pipe, and also keeping the ash pan door "closed" when scraping.(For the same reason). I do see this as being beneficial, and have noticed less ash being drawn up while doing this. In the past I was very aggressive when cleaning these grates, and lots of ash went up, up, and away. Maybe these 2 tips will help in less ash formation.
joeq
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Surdiac Gotha 513
Stove/Furnace Make: Oil fired
Stove/Furnace Model: Thermopride

Re: Diary of a Surdiac

PostBy: Lightning On: Thu Dec 26, 2013 10:40 pm

What is this lever for??
And why the wire mesh in front of the glass?
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Lightning
 
Hand Fed Coal Furnace: Clayton 1537G
Coal Size/Type: Nut Size / White Ash

Re: Diary of a Surdiac

PostBy: joeq On: Thu Dec 26, 2013 10:51 pm

Lightning wrote:What was the wire in front of the glass for?


I'm not sure what wire you're talking about Lee, (or what picture). but my stove does come with a removable wire mesh that covers the frt glass on the door. I'm assuming it's for protection from careless kids kicking soccer balls, (or something similar) into it.
Image
This is a pic with it installed, tho I usually run it W/O. (Looks better IMO, and don't have too many little ones to worry about)
joeq
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Surdiac Gotha 513
Stove/Furnace Make: Oil fired
Stove/Furnace Model: Thermopride

Re: Diary of a Surdiac

PostBy: michaelanthony On: Thu Dec 26, 2013 11:01 pm

I first want to mention page 2 and the front door of your stove. Last season I was running a box stove in my basement, a 30 yr. old box stove at that a "Gold Marc Independence". For 2 yrs. I was changing gaskets and hinge adjustments because I felt that too much air was leaking past when the fire was at it's peak and I was off at work, unfortunately my wife is not a coal stove person due to some back operations. This summer I was able to get my hands on a brand new (30 yr. old) door for my stove from the folks that originally made the stove but no longer do so. For 2 yrs I never had a puff back with the old door on the stove and I attached the new door this fall and fired her up the same way as always and guess what.......yup I damn sharted! myself when that ball of fire rolled out and I swear the stove groaned. That taught me the lesson of secondary air during initial burn off and I never had to worry because the air was taking the path of least resistance around the old warped door and now the stove runs like a champ! My point is that looking at your front door the door doesn't look square to the stove, have you done the dollar bill test. The reason is if your door is warped it will show itself under a load and some of your symptoms ring true. I realize your plans for a baro are near, I would do it asap if that is what the manufacturer recommends.
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This is the old door and you can see that it is not straight, what you can not see is that it wasn't flush with the stove either.
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michaelanthony
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Vigilant 2310, gold marc box, vogelzang pot belly
Coal Size/Type: Pea, and a little nut
Other Heating: Very cold FHA oil furnace

Re: Diary of a Surdiac

PostBy: Lightning On: Thu Dec 26, 2013 11:10 pm

See where I have the red circle? The primary air comes in directly below it, right? Is this a passage way for primary air to come up behind the coal bed liner?
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Lightning
 
Hand Fed Coal Furnace: Clayton 1537G
Coal Size/Type: Nut Size / White Ash

Re: Diary of a Surdiac

PostBy: joeq On: Thu Dec 26, 2013 11:20 pm

Yes Lee, that is where primary air flows into the coal bed. However the rear skirt is missing in the pic. This is a pic of all the components that line the top of the grates, around the coal bed. The piece to the left rear of the ash pan is the rear one. See the "dental moulding" looking bottom teeth? I'm sure these are the 1st to get clogged from scraping, due to the design above that plate.
Image
joeq
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Surdiac Gotha 513
Stove/Furnace Make: Oil fired
Stove/Furnace Model: Thermopride

Re: Diary of a Surdiac

PostBy: joeq On: Thu Dec 26, 2013 11:27 pm

michaelanthony wrote:I first want to mention page 2 and the front door of your stove. My point is that looking at your front door the door doesn't look square to the stove, have you done the dollar bill test. The reason is if your door is warped it will show itself under a load and some of your symptoms ring true. I realize your plans for a baro are near, I would do it asap if that is what the manufacturer recommends.

M/T, my door has a new rope gasket, and seals "very" tightly. When I 1st fire the stove, I cover the glass with a piece of tin foil, (from the inside) to keep the glass from staining with soot from the kindling.(?) Trying to remove the tin is impossible cause it pinches so tight. Once again, something confuses me tho. The manufacturer says that the glass panes "breath" to allow heat through them into the room in frt of the stove. If this is the case, wouldn't it also allow air to "enter" the firebox, above the coal bed, allowing for less of a draft? (Which isn't a problem)
joeq
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Surdiac Gotha 513
Stove/Furnace Make: Oil fired
Stove/Furnace Model: Thermopride

Re: Diary of a Surdiac

PostBy: franco b On: Thu Dec 26, 2013 11:36 pm

joeq wrote:If this is the case, wouldn't it also allow air to "enter" the firebox, above the coal bed,

Your stove has a series of holes drilled in the bottom of the door frame just behind the glass. This lets in secondary air.
franco b
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: V ermont Castings 2310, Franco Belge 262
Baseburners & Antiques: Glenwood Modern Oak 114
Coal Size/Type: nut and pea

Re: Diary of a Surdiac

PostBy: Lightning On: Fri Dec 27, 2013 12:02 am

OK, great here's what I think is happening. After about a week when your grates start clogging, especially around the "dental" skirting, your primary air is finding its way between the skirting of the coal bed and the fire box wall. Get a small roll of fiberglass insulation, you can find it at home depot its yellow and a couple inches wide and less than a half inch thick. Cut strips and lay the strips along that ridge all the way around the coal bed skirting (I call it a liner) where I drew the red arrows. Then set the liners in place so that the fiberglass creates a seal between the liner and fire box wall. This should prevent primary air from taking this route instead of up thru the grates.

Another thing, when you clear ash, do you work ash until red coals are falling thru and an orange glow is radiating down thru? Its important that this happens when clearing ash. Its at that point enough should be cleared for adequate air to flow up thru the coal bed.
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Lightning
 
Hand Fed Coal Furnace: Clayton 1537G
Coal Size/Type: Nut Size / White Ash

Re: Diary of a Surdiac

PostBy: joeq On: Fri Dec 27, 2013 12:38 am

franco b wrote:Your stove has a series of holes drilled in the bottom of the door frame just behind the glass. This lets in secondary air.

I wasn't aware of this franco. I'm now getting confused if secondary air is a good thing or not? If these holes were in the design, I'ld think them to be necessary, and not a hindrance. what is the purpose of the holes?
joeq
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Surdiac Gotha 513
Stove/Furnace Make: Oil fired
Stove/Furnace Model: Thermopride

Re: Diary of a Surdiac

PostBy: joeq On: Fri Dec 27, 2013 12:49 am

Lightning wrote:OK, great here's what I think is happening. After about a week when your grates start clogging, especially around the "dental" skirting, your primary air is finding its way between the skirting of the coal bed and the fire box wall. Get a small roll of fiberglass insulation. This should prevent primary air from taking this route instead of up thru the grates.
Another thing, when you clear ash, do you work ash until red coals are falling thru and an orange glow is radiating down thru? Its important that this happens when clearing ash. Its at that point enough should be cleared for adequate air to flow up thru the coal bed.


Interesting. !st thing is you're thinking when my grates start to clog, the air finds an easier path "around" the liner, rather than forcing it's way thru the grates? When I take a peek above my ash pan to check out how much "glow" I have thru the coal bed, (to determine if they need scraping), even if there isn't any glowing, the air could still be going thru it? (So a buddy of mine thinks is true. (I'm not so sure.)
And secondly, if I do put fiberglass insulation around the liner, it'll actually hold up to the heat of a coal fire? Wow! that's some tough stuff.
And yes, when I scrape and clean my grates, I make sure, (thru the "glowing" inspection), that they're breathing 100%.
joeq
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Surdiac Gotha 513
Stove/Furnace Make: Oil fired
Stove/Furnace Model: Thermopride

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