new K-6 Leaking????

new K-6 Leaking????

PostBy: drzbob On: Thu Mar 14, 2013 12:28 pm

Hi guys, our new K=6 Keystroker was fired up in Mid Jan and has had issues with pressure. Boiler is next to house, 65 ft of Thermopex to basement. House has new "pump wall" with 2 zones and Heat pex over 90% of house which is new. No leaks in the house at all and the pipeline is one piece so leakage would show up in the house. We used 30 gallons of Antifreeze and now the water is perfectly clear with no red color. System has a water feed, so pressure is now stable. So did the anti-freeze loose its color or is the boiler leaking inside and its going up the chimney? How can we tell and what can we do if its the Keystoker? Any idea's? thanks bob
drzbob
 
Stove/Furnace Make: none
Stove/Furnace Model: none

Re: new K-6 Leaking????

PostBy: tsb On: Thu Mar 14, 2013 12:45 pm

Isolate the boiler with valves and let it sit for 24 hours at a
constant temperature. If the pressure drops a lot it's the
boiler. You should also see the leak if it's at room temperature.
A small leak in a boiler is impossible to find with it running.
The water just boils off with no wet spot.
tsb
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Binford 2000
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: LL Pioneer top vent
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Saey Hanover II

Re: new K-6 Leaking????

PostBy: AA130FIREMAN On: Thu Mar 14, 2013 1:49 pm

Do you have a back flo preventer before a pressure reducing valve ( if a drop in house pressure occurs ? )
AA130FIREMAN
 
Stove/Furnace Make: axeman anderson
Stove/Furnace Model: 130 anthratube

Visit Lehigh Anthracite

Re: new K-6 Leaking????

PostBy: dcrane On: Thu Mar 14, 2013 2:10 pm

I thought this thread might be worth a peek to you anti-freeze / boiler water treatment
It gives some pretty good opinions about the use of antifreeze and some of the potencial downfalls.

More folks who have experience with your set up will be along shortly.
dcrane
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Crane 404

Re: new K-6 Leaking????

PostBy: drzbob On: Thu Mar 14, 2013 5:08 pm

Thanks Dcrane and AA130FIREMAN; we did install a backflow preventer with the water supply, we did this after 3 weeks of pressure issues ( up and down) and poor heat issues into the 2 house zones. Seems that we air so alot of drain and refill etc. However the color is now gone from the system (was pink) I think from a leak but will have to wait till warmer weather to shut down the unit and run a pressure test. I used the anti-freeze since the stoker is in a shed next to the house with no heat. We plan on no DHW since its to far from the house etc. thanks again bob
drzbob
 
Stove/Furnace Make: none
Stove/Furnace Model: none

Re: new K-6 Leaking????

PostBy: LsFarm On: Thu Mar 14, 2013 6:52 pm

Get a sample of the now clear boiler water, and take it to an automotive service provider, and ask them to use an antifreeze tester to see if
there is any remaining antifreeze in the water.

Greg L
LsFarm
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Axeman Anderson 260
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: Self-built 'Big Bertha' SS Boiler
Baseburners & Antiques: Keystone 11, Art Garland

Re: new K-6 Leaking????

PostBy: Rob R. On: Thu Mar 14, 2013 7:06 pm

LsFarm wrote:Get a sample of the now clear boiler water, and take it to an automotive service provider, and ask them to use an antifreeze tester to see if
there is any remaining antifreeze in the water.

Greg L


If you go that route, make sure that your antifreeze concentration measurement is made using a propylene glycol (PG) refractometer or hydrometer. (or use an instrument that can measure both types of anti-freeze)

Do you have a low water cutoff installed on the K6? Is the make-up water valved off? If not, valve off the make-up water and monitor the system pressure. If it drops below 12 psi, you probably have a leak.

As "tsb" said, any leaks should be easy to find with the boiler at room temperature.
Rob R.
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: EFM DF520
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Hitzer 50-93
Other Heating: Dad's 1953 EFM Highboy

Re: new K-6 Leaking????

PostBy: Scottscoaled On: Thu Mar 14, 2013 7:58 pm

Is it a brand new unit? You guys are a lot nicer than me. The guy that sold it to me would be there fixing it. Brand new units aren't supposed to leak. Maybe this guy needs to call Keystoker direct. Anyone have their number.
Scottscoaled
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: EFM 520x4, 700. Van Wert 1200.
Hot Air Coal Stoker Furnace: EFM 150, Keystoker 150
Coal Size/Type: Lots of buck

Re: new K-6 Leaking????

PostBy: Rob R. On: Thu Mar 14, 2013 8:05 pm

Maybe the boiler isn't leaking at all...diagnose first, then make the appropriate calls.
Rob R.
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: EFM DF520
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Hitzer 50-93
Other Heating: Dad's 1953 EFM Highboy

Re: new K-6 Leaking????

PostBy: McGiever On: Thu Mar 14, 2013 11:00 pm

drzbob wrote:Hi guys, our new K=6 Keystroker was fired up in Mid Jan and has had issues with pressure. Boiler is next to house, 65 ft of Thermopex to basement. House has new "pump wall" with 2 zones and Heat pex over 90% of house which is new. No leaks in the house at all and the pipeline is one piece so leakage would show up in the house. We used 30 gallons of Antifreeze and now the water is perfectly clear with no red color. System has a water feed, so pressure is now stable. So did the anti-freeze loose its color or is the boiler leaking inside and its going up the chimney? How can we tell and what can we do if its the Keystoker? Any idea's? thanks bob



drzbob wrote:Thanks guys. We did install a backflow preventer when we hooked up the domestic water supply. No DHW is being used from the Stoker (to far from house). We used a propylene glycol mix and its the mix they sell everyone with Outdoor wood boilers. I'm just concerned that we have a leak as the color is totally gone, and some of our pex lines have turned gray or brown. thanks again. bob


Was all that PEX piping the pex with the oxygen barrier? Non-oxygen barrier would allow oxygen to get in the system. :idea: And you did say that you had to drain and refill a few times.
What do you use for air/oxygen separation? And is that installed properly?

Got any pics of the install?
McGiever
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: AXEMAN-ANDERSON 130 "1959"
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: HARMAN MAGNUM
Hand Fed Coal Stove: RADIANT HOME AIR BLAST
Baseburners & Antiques: OUR GLENWOOD 111 BASEBURNER "1908"
Coal Size/Type: PEA / ANTHRACITE, NUT-STOVE / ANTHRACITE
Other Heating: Ground Source Heat Pump
Stove/Furnace Make: Hydro Heat /Mega Tek

Re: new K-6 Leaking????

PostBy: jpen1 On: Thu Mar 14, 2013 11:16 pm

I'm with Rob you must diagnose the problem first. Since it is a new system anything and everything must be a suspect. If you are losing pressure you most definitely have a leak somewhere in the system. To do it right you really need to isolate and test each zone seperately and test the boiler seperately. When I installed my new system I tested each zone with water to 25 psi and air @ 15 psi. I required that the zone or boiler in question hold the pressure stable for a minimum of 4 hours with a good quality gauge like an anderson instrument, wika, or even a swagelock gauge. I don't trust them cheap made in china gauges for something like this. With your system being hot you may never notice a leak even if it is the home until you have virtually no demand for heat due to flash evaporation. At this point you could look for a white/ chalk colored deposits on any of the fittings which could be a sign of your leak, but you really need to pressure test the system completely stem to stern.
jpen1
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Leisure Line
Stove/Furnace Model: 110 Boiler

Re: new K-6 Leaking????

PostBy: McGiever On: Thu Mar 14, 2013 11:21 pm

drzbob said the pressure was good after he latter added the supply water connection and the backflow preventer. Sounds like he first ran the boiler without a supply water connection for a while.
More than likely there was still some air in the system after the first manual filling and the system's performance was hinder due to all that trapped air. Sounds like he needs a high point vent. :idea:
McGiever
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: AXEMAN-ANDERSON 130 "1959"
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: HARMAN MAGNUM
Hand Fed Coal Stove: RADIANT HOME AIR BLAST
Baseburners & Antiques: OUR GLENWOOD 111 BASEBURNER "1908"
Coal Size/Type: PEA / ANTHRACITE, NUT-STOVE / ANTHRACITE
Other Heating: Ground Source Heat Pump
Stove/Furnace Make: Hydro Heat /Mega Tek

Re: new K-6 Leaking????

PostBy: Wiz On: Fri Mar 15, 2013 5:07 am

McGiever wrote:drzbob said the pressure was good after he latter added the supply water connection and the backflow preventer. Sounds like he first ran the boiler without a supply water connection for a while.
More than likely there was still some air in the system after the first manual filling and the system's performance was hinder due to all that trapped air. Sounds like he needs a high point vent. :idea:



I'm a betting man that this was the issue. System was air bound :yes:
Wiz
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Keystoker Ka 6
Coal Size/Type: Casey Junk Coal :(

Re: new K-6 Leaking????

PostBy: Rob R. On: Fri Mar 15, 2013 5:33 am

Air in the system was my first thought as well...especially if the K6 doesn't have an air vent in the top of the boiler. The supply tapping on the boiler protrudes into the pressure vessel, so if you don't have a vent on the top it will trap an inch or so of air in the top.
Rob R.
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: EFM DF520
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Hitzer 50-93
Other Heating: Dad's 1953 EFM Highboy

Re: new K-6 Leaking????

PostBy: Scottscoaled On: Fri Mar 15, 2013 7:58 am

Venting all that air must have used up all the antifreeze :roll:
Scottscoaled
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: EFM 520x4, 700. Van Wert 1200.
Hot Air Coal Stoker Furnace: EFM 150, Keystoker 150
Coal Size/Type: Lots of buck

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