super mag keeps shuuting down?

super mag keeps shuuting down?

PostBy: jkrf27 On: Sat Mar 23, 2013 7:57 pm

Its run for a bout an hour tops and trips the GFI its plugged into. It works normanlly to that point then throws the GFI. It is only 2.5 months old. Somehting has to be over heating or giving it a false temp reading? BUt I also had it in manual stove temp settings and it does the same. In manual the stove runs non-stop. It should not shut off. Any help as to what would trip the gfi after 45mins to an hour of use. The ESP? Im lost.... and pissed!
jkrf27
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Harman
Stove/Furnace Model: Super Mag

Re: super mag keeps shuuting down?

PostBy: whistlenut On: Sat Mar 23, 2013 8:04 pm

Can you plug it in and bypass the GFI for a short time to see if that is the issue? Sometimes a GFI will go bad. Oh, just DON'T piss on the circuit board, no matter how POed you get. I sense your frustration...and this might be a hard one to sort out......all it takes is time and money.......
whistlenut
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: AA130's,260's, AHS130&260's,EFM900,GJ&VanWert
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: Franks Boiler,Itasca415,NYer130,Van Wert
Hot Air Coal Stoker Furnace: Yellow Flame
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: Alaska-4,Keystoker-2,
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Alaska,Gibraltor,Keystone,Vc Vigilant 2
Hand Fed Coal Furnace: Van Wert, NYer's, Ford,Jensen.
Coal Size/Type: Rice,Buck,Pea,Nut&Stove
Other Heating: Oil HWBB

Re: super mag keeps shuuting down?

PostBy: McGiever On: Sat Mar 23, 2013 8:59 pm

Where is your Dealer at on this 2.5 month old stove? :x
McGiever
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: AXEMAN-ANDERSON 130 "1959"
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: HARMAN MAGNUM
Hand Fed Coal Stove: RADIANT HOME AIR BLAST
Baseburners & Antiques: OUR GLENWOOD 111 BASEBURNER "1908"
Coal Size/Type: PEA / ANTHRACITE, NUT-STOVE / ANTHRACITE
Other Heating: Ground Source Heat Pump
Stove/Furnace Make: Hydro Heat /Mega Tek


Re: super mag keeps shuuting down?

PostBy: 009to090 On: Sat Mar 23, 2013 9:04 pm

Yeah, I would skip the GFI. Test by plugging it into another power outlet. An extension chord to another room, perhaps?
009to090
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: EFM 520 HighBoy
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: DVC-500 x 2
Coal Size/Type: Anthracite Rice

Re: super mag keeps shuuting down?

PostBy: blrman07 On: Sat Mar 23, 2013 9:21 pm

McGiever wrote:Where is your Dealer at on this 2.5 month old stove? :x


McGiever what happened? Did you miss that this is a Harman?
blrman07
 
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: Bucket a Day
Hand Fed Coal Stove: installing a VC 2310 this summer
Coal Size/Type: Pea/Nut/Wood in the VC and anything that will fit in the Bucket a Day. It's not fussy.

Re: super mag keeps shuuting down?

PostBy: jkrf27 On: Sat Mar 23, 2013 10:07 pm

Dealer said monday. I told him if he comes then to bring me a new stove! No service on a sat morning. Basically doesnt really give a *censored*. But since then Ive isolated it to the feed motor by process of disconnecting each motor. If I hook the feed back up ina bout 45 mins it will trip the gfi. The recep is def good. I have a pockeet gfi tester, I ran extension cords to 3 other basement gfi and same thing. right now i have the the feed disconnected and just hand fed the grate. its up to temp and acting normal minus the auto feed. I also had the hopper nearly empty, it was working good for about 30 mins and I dumped a bucket in and it tripped the gfi right away.
whatta yas think?
jkrf27
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Harman
Stove/Furnace Model: Super Mag

Re: super mag keeps shuuting down?

PostBy: coalkirk On: Sat Mar 23, 2013 11:01 pm

There is no reason to have the stove powered via a GFCI. Also GFCI's do not trip on "heat". They trip on leakage of voltage to ground. Plug it into a non-gfci source. As someone already said, GFCI's can go bad, especially older ones.
coalkirk
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Harman VF3000
Coal Size/Type: antrhcite/rice coal

Re: super mag keeps shuuting down?

PostBy: blrman07 On: Sun Mar 24, 2013 8:02 am

From GFI and Fire Investigation by:
Mark E. Goodson, PE
1007 Shady Oaks Denton,
Texas 76205
mark@mgoodson.com

The GFI is a relatively simple device. The amount of electrical current that flows through an energized conductor (phase or hot wire) is magnetically sensed within the GFI, as is the amount of current returning through the corresponding neutral wire. If the two currents are equal, the magnetic fields cancel each other out and the GFI allows power delivery. If the hot and neutral current differ by more than 6 mA, the GFI senses this imbalance and power is removed; i.e. the GFI trips. The assumption made is that a portion of the electrical current has been diverted to ground, as would be the case when someone was electrically shocked. The GFI will respond in a time period specified in the requirements of UL 943, Standards for Ground Fault Circuit Interrupters.


This is an excellent description of how a GFI works. Since it did the same thing on every GFI you plugged it into and the stove doesn't trip with the auto feeder motor disabled but trips when wired up, it kinda isolates it to a partial ground with that motor. If it was a full short to ground it would trip immediately on start up.

Excellent trouble shooting!!! As for the Harman rep not doing anything until Monday...based on history that I read on this site it sounds typical for Harman.
blrman07
 
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: Bucket a Day
Hand Fed Coal Stove: installing a VC 2310 this summer
Coal Size/Type: Pea/Nut/Wood in the VC and anything that will fit in the Bucket a Day. It's not fussy.

Re: super mag keeps shuuting down?

PostBy: theo On: Sun Mar 24, 2013 8:08 am

I think this thread is in the wrong catergory
theo
 
Stove/Furnace Make: LL
Stove/Furnace Model: Hyfire 2

Re: super mag keeps shuuting down?

PostBy: blrman07 On: Sun Mar 24, 2013 8:13 am

Theo...how so? It started with a Super Mag Harman stoker with a problem. Owner troubleshot the problems and isolated it. Hopefully he'll report back when the Harman rep gets there. Others can learn from this which I presume is one of the big purposes of this site?
blrman07
 
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: Bucket a Day
Hand Fed Coal Stove: installing a VC 2310 this summer
Coal Size/Type: Pea/Nut/Wood in the VC and anything that will fit in the Bucket a Day. It's not fussy.

Re: super mag keeps shuuting down?

PostBy: coalnewbie On: Sun Mar 24, 2013 10:39 am

Taken from the sales brochure
•Exhaust sensing technology constantly monitors and adjusts heat levels


So the change in resistance from the thermocouple adjusts the feed motor and somewhere you have a ground fault.

Soooo, ESP or the circuit board is my guess. Ask me how I know... the Quadrafire, Harman pellet stoves, DVC and now the Super Magnum all have (I suspect) the same circuitry. Harman has a policy of continuous improvement, errm, I mean even though this part of the circuit has been suspect for 10 years, keep pushing out the same ol' crap year after year but make the stoves look prettier.Detroit has done this for 40 years and is still getting away with it.

Check the posts on DVC 500. As you have a new stove you need the get it fixed under warranty but look over the techs shoulder as he fixes it as you will revisit that again. It's a simple fix to replace the probe and I always have one on hand just in case. Keep posting on this one as we are all interested.

You suspect the dealer does not give a c rap ... very perceptive of you. I would bet even money that the stove does not actually get fixed Monday but I wish you well. I believe the problem lies in the fact that Harman does not really fully recompense the dealers for this type of activity (if you believe the info I squeezed out of my local dealer) so just give you a new stove... dream on.
coalnewbie
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: LL AnthraKing 110K, Pocono110K,KStokr 90K, DVC
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Hitzer 50-93, Jotul 507
Baseburners & Antiques: Red Cross Invader 2
Coal Size/Type: Rice, Chestnut
Other Heating: Heating Oil CH, Toyotomi OM 22

Re: super mag keeps shuuting down?

PostBy: jkrf27 On: Sun Mar 24, 2013 11:56 am

thanks for your help Theo! you sound like those idiots in washington. complain and worry about everything else except the real issuse! get a life.
theo wrote:I think this thread is in the wrong catergory
jkrf27
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Harman
Stove/Furnace Model: Super Mag

Re: super mag keeps shuuting down?

PostBy: jkrf27 On: Sun Mar 24, 2013 12:01 pm

Im an electrician. GFCi"s are code in basements. It should not matter what I plug a device pulling 3.3A. It worked great for 2 and a half months. The GFCI is new, as well as the others. I try different things and something else happens. Its def a board or ESP issue. Tech is on his way out right now after I told him just to bring me a new stove on Mon.!
jkrf27
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Harman
Stove/Furnace Model: Super Mag

Re: super mag keeps shuuting down?

PostBy: coalnewbie On: Sun Mar 24, 2013 12:19 pm

Your portable GFI tester made me guess you were an electrician. If a tech is on his way then the matter rests and LOL. If not I could suggest a testing protocol for the thermocouple. However it turns out, welcome to the board and the world of coal burning. Let us know how the new stove on Monday works out. Roll up, place your bets here. Asking theo to get a life... he has one, he burns coal. There are other things but they are inconsequential.
Last edited by coalnewbie on Sun Mar 24, 2013 12:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.
coalnewbie
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: LL AnthraKing 110K, Pocono110K,KStokr 90K, DVC
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Hitzer 50-93, Jotul 507
Baseburners & Antiques: Red Cross Invader 2
Coal Size/Type: Rice, Chestnut
Other Heating: Heating Oil CH, Toyotomi OM 22

Re: super mag keeps shuuting down?

PostBy: theo On: Sun Mar 24, 2013 12:29 pm

jkrf27 wrote:thanks for your help Theo! you sound like those idiots in washington. complain and worry about everything else except the real issuse! get a life.
theo wrote:I think this thread is in the wrong catergory

Really dont matter to me what catergory, just thought you would get more suggestions and response from the Coal Stokers, Boilers ,Furnaces and Stove Section,,,, just trying to help.
theo
 
Stove/Furnace Make: LL
Stove/Furnace Model: Hyfire 2