Baro damper question

Re: Baro damper question

PostBy: Wood'nCoal On: Wed Dec 26, 2007 11:40 pm

Cap wrote:Jpete--

Baro's are overrated in my opinion, especially with a Harman unit. Your hand damper on the ash pan door will control the draft with 95% effectiveness. Like WYN said, the best thing a baro will do for a Harman is slow the burn down in order you do not waste coal & its usable heat. Windy days it will aid in a consistent burn. This is the only time I find it of any use.

Keep your additional flue located hand damper open unless you are burning wood..

I foiled my Baro
They call me the anti-baro guy.


Anti-Baro Guy!!! Anti-Baro Guy!!!
It's ok, I'd still have a beer with you anyway, at least you're still a hand-fired real man. :twisted:
Wood'nCoal
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: 1959 EFM 350
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Harman Magnafire Mark I
Coal Size/Type: Rice and Chestnut
Other Heating: Fisher Fireplace Insert

Re: Baro damper question

PostBy: coaledsweat On: Wed Dec 26, 2007 11:49 pm

You need the add your own elbow/baro deal, it tacks on the side of the pipe. Field controls doesn't list one on their website, but I have one of their 227G models on my oil burner. It is a short pipe that screws to your stovepipe. You snip the center out, snip it radially about 15-20 times and fold the smokepipe into the new elbow. If is so high where you mount it that the pipe starts to go oval, then wrap a stiff piece of cardboard around it and tape it, copy its tail and cut it out. Then fit the cardboard to fit the new shape of the stovepipe where it is going, slip the cardboard back over the elbow, cut and mount it (cardboard is good, you don't have to keep going back to buy more parts if you goof). Once mounted on the stovepipe, the baro slides in the end and you tighten the collar. I would try and mount it as forward facing as possible due to its close proximity to the elbow.

I have a manufactured fireplace adapter in S/S around here someplace for a woodstove, normally these things only go up the chimney about 3-4 feet. Anything more isnt needed.
Last edited by coaledsweat on Wed Dec 26, 2007 11:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.
coaledsweat
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Axeman Anderson 260M
Coal Size/Type: Pea

Re: Baro damper question

PostBy: jpete On: Wed Dec 26, 2007 11:53 pm

Wood'nCoal wrote:So the prior owner flattened a piece of stove pipe and shoved it through the open fireplace damper, it was open to room air around the pipe? Just wanted to make sure I understood you.


Yup. Imagine that stove sitting about 4 feet forward of where it is now. Basically in the middle of the room. They had a length of pipe with a baro damper in it, then a 90* elbow and another 3 feet of pipe crushed down until it would fit up the chimney.

Wood'nCoal wrote:BTW, that manual damper was added to your Harman. They don't build them with manual dampers in the stove collar.


That's the only place I could find to put it. For a stove that wasn't designed for a damper, it luckily had two holes 180* apart that were perfectly sized for the damper shaft. :D
jpete
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Harman Mk II
Coal Size/Type: Stove, Nut, Pea
Other Heating: Dino juice

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Re: Baro damper question

PostBy: coalstoves On: Thu Dec 27, 2007 3:42 am

I'd check it with a manometer before I went to all the trouble of fitting a baro the chimney might only be pulling a .05-.07 anyway and you won't make a big difference cutting it back to .04, I'd learn to use the MPD in the existing installation, the funny thing about existing installations is they usually work fine once you learn the trick to them.
coalstoves
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Harman and Liberty
Stove/Furnace Model: Magnum and Victory 700

Re: Baro damper question

PostBy: jpete On: Thu Dec 27, 2007 7:26 am

coalstoves wrote:I'd check it with a manometer before I went to all the trouble of fitting a baro the chimney might only be pulling a .05-.07 anyway and you won't make a big difference cutting it back to .04, I'd learn to use the MPD in the existing installation, the funny thing about existing installations is they usually work fine once you learn the trick to them.


I was just wondering is the baro would be "better". The MPD is easy, "Open to load coal, close to burn coal." :D
jpete
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Harman Mk II
Coal Size/Type: Stove, Nut, Pea
Other Heating: Dino juice

Re: Baro damper question

PostBy: Wood'nCoal On: Thu Dec 27, 2007 10:29 am

coaledsweat wrote:You need the add your own elbow/baro deal, it tacks on the side of the pipe. Field controls doesn't list one on their website, but I have one of their 227G models on my oil burner. It is a short pipe that screws to your stovepipe. You snip the center out, snip it radially about 15-20 times and fold the smokepipe into the new elbow. If is so high where you mount it that the pipe starts to go oval, then wrap a stiff piece of cardboard around it and tape it, copy its tail and cut it out. Then fit the cardboard to fit the new shape of the stovepipe where it is going, slip the cardboard back over the elbow, cut and mount it (cardboard is good, you don't have to keep going back to buy more parts if you goof). Once mounted on the stovepipe, the baro slides in the end and you tighten the collar. I would try and mount it as forward facing as possible due to its close proximity to the elbow.

I have a manufactured fireplace adapter in S/S around here someplace for a woodstove, normally these things only go up the chimney about 3-4 feet. Anything more isnt needed.


The RC damper comes with the collar that you can mount in the pipe using the method Coaledsweat described. In case I didn't make it clear in my previous post, you should measure the draft first, full fire and manual damper open wide. You might not even need a barometric damper.
A while ago there was a question about if a baro damper can swing the other way to vent a sudden downdraft due to a gust of wind, preventing it from reaching the stove. The type RC cannot, but Field Controls # MG1/MG2 regulators will, they have double swinging gates.
Wood'nCoal
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: 1959 EFM 350
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Harman Magnafire Mark I
Coal Size/Type: Rice and Chestnut
Other Heating: Fisher Fireplace Insert

Re: Baro damper question

PostBy: rberq On: Thu Dec 27, 2007 9:02 pm

jpeat, in your original post you wanted to replace the elbow with a tee, and mount the baro facing down at the bottom of the tee. Won't work, as you were told, because the baro face must be plumb and level. However, go ahead and replace the elbow with a tee, then put another tee on the bottom of the first tee, in either horizontal or vertical configuration. Install the baro in the end of the horizontal opening in the second tee (sounds like we're golfing here), cap the other opening. I see no reason why the baro won't work just as well below the stove outlet as above it. The trick will be to find tees with the right combination of male and female ends. Also take care to get the baro plumb and level. As a bonus you can take the cap off the second tee and snake a vacuum cleaner hose up inside when you want to get the fly ash out of the stove outlet area.
rberq
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: DS Machine 1300
Coal Size/Type: Nut -- Kimmel/Blaschak/Reading
Other Heating: Oil hot water radiators, propane

Re: Baro damper question

PostBy: coaledsweat On: Thu Dec 27, 2007 9:23 pm

I would not install a baro lower than the stoves exhaust outlet.
coaledsweat
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Axeman Anderson 260M
Coal Size/Type: Pea

Re: Baro damper question

PostBy: coalstoves On: Fri Dec 28, 2007 2:58 am

coaledsweat wrote:I would not install a baro lower than the stoves exhaust outlet.

I hope somebody asks the next question
coalstoves
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Harman and Liberty
Stove/Furnace Model: Magnum and Victory 700

Re: Baro damper question

PostBy: coaledsweat On: Fri Dec 28, 2007 10:17 am

It also should have no elbows, it needs a straight shot at your stovepipe. Additional fittings will have a negative impact on its function.
coaledsweat
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Axeman Anderson 260M
Coal Size/Type: Pea

Re: Baro damper question

PostBy: rberq On: Fri Dec 28, 2007 2:02 pm

I stand by my recommendation. Innocent until proven guilty. There are ALWAYS fittings, no more on this recommended setup than on any other. The other question is, is it OK to install the baro below the stove exhaust rather than above? I'm willing to admit I don't know it all, and my wife reminds me of that from time to time. But the only reason I can think of is that some fly ash may settle into the lower tee so it will need to be vacuumed more often. Anyone else have a definite reason?
rberq
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: DS Machine 1300
Coal Size/Type: Nut -- Kimmel/Blaschak/Reading
Other Heating: Oil hot water radiators, propane

Re: Baro damper question

PostBy: coaledsweat On: Fri Dec 28, 2007 2:39 pm

rberq wrote:I stand by my recommendation.


I just got off the phone with Field Controls tech support. They confirm my previous posts on this matter, you are welcome to prove us wrong as I'm always willing to learn.
coaledsweat
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Axeman Anderson 260M
Coal Size/Type: Pea

Re: Baro damper question

PostBy: rberq On: Fri Dec 28, 2007 2:49 pm

Addendum. My Field Controls RC baro has different counterweight locations, for the same desired draft, depending whether the baro is installed in a horizontal pipe run or a vertical pipe run. So there's something more going on here (venturi effect???) than the baro simply responding to negative pressure in the flue. My guess is that the horizontal vs. vertical distinction is for more-rapid response, but that in general the baro will work in many different locations. With an unusual location like I am suggesting, it's probably extra important to check draft with a manometer, or do some extended tinkering with different settings until the stove is operating smoothly at different outdoor temps and wind conditions. Also make sure the cat doesn't climb in, where it's so low near the floor.

The Field Controls installation guides show below the exhaust to be NOT a recommended location for the baro. But there are other not-recommended locations that forum members have used successfully. See link below:


http://www.fieldcontrols.com/pdfs/01575700.pdf
This link is broken, either the page no longer exists or there is some other issue like a typo.
rberq
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: DS Machine 1300
Coal Size/Type: Nut -- Kimmel/Blaschak/Reading
Other Heating: Oil hot water radiators, propane

Re: Baro damper question

PostBy: coaledsweat On: Fri Dec 28, 2007 3:16 pm

I think the two different set points for vertical and horizontal use have more to do with gas speed. A vertical run of pipe will have a higher gas speed than a horizontal one. The two setpoints allow you to tune it to that.
coaledsweat
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Axeman Anderson 260M
Coal Size/Type: Pea

Re: Baro damper question

PostBy: Cap On: Fri Dec 28, 2007 7:07 pm

Interesting! Having read the .pdf file...

Direction for hand fired units---"Close ash pan door for mild weather". Can I assume then, the ash pan door is to be open for cold weather? And allow the RC Control"s barometric damper control the draft?

But why would I leave my door open for more than 5 or 10 minutes to stoke up a fire? That would be insane.

This baro is likely designed for older systems or much larger "plants" as they put it. Little or no need for a small hand fired Harman the way I see it.

Cap
tHE ANTI-BARO..IT'S BEEN FOILED
Cap
 
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: Harman SF 250, domestic hot water loop, heat accumulator

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